End times time frames by chapter and fit

[Douggg]

My terminology is correct. The period of persecution Christ described can be called tribulation (Mark 13) or great tribulation (Matthew 24). There is zero difference.

What translation are you using ?

What specific verse in Mark 13 are you referring to ?

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Jesus stressed that the great tribulation will be unmatched in human history, and never equaled again. The great tribulation's severity will threatened the existence of all life on earth.

There have been periods of tribulation throughout human history to happen to different groups and individuals - but nothing on par with the great tribulation which will threatened the existence of all life on earth.

 

[Douggg]

The last 3 Trumpet - Woe periods of Revelation 9 thru Revelation 11 seals the fact that the 1260 days (or 42 months) of Revelation 11 happens on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe, with Jesus' coming on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

That means of course, that the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period, and thus that 1260 days (or 42 months), is GREAT TRIBULATION timing.

The three woe trumpets take place during the great tribulation. But the woe trumpets don't define the beginning of the great tribulation.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21 that the great tribulation will begin when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

In Daniel 12:11-12, the abomination of desolation is setup, involving two periods of time, 1290 days and 1335 days. Both greater than 1260 days.

 

[Davy]

The three woe trumpets take place during the great tribulation.

No, they do not.
The 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe happens before the "great tribulation".

We KNOW... the 6th Trumpet happens DURING to start the tribulation simply because Jesus is shown having come on the 7th Trumpet, and we know the tribulation is just PRIOR to Jesus' coming. Actually very simple really.

But the woe trumpets don't define the beginning of the great tribulation.

The 6th Trumpet -2nd Woe does.

At Revelation 9:12-15 the start of the tribulation is represented by the LOOSING of the four angels bound at the river Euphrates.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21 that the great tribulation will begin when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

Yes. And so?

That doesn't change the fact that the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe is actual "great tribulation" timing, and continues all the way to Revelation 11:14-15 with Jesus' coming on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

In Daniel 12:11-12, the abomination of desolation is setup, involving two periods of time, 1290 days and 1335 days. Both greater than 1260 days.

Revelation 9:12 to Revelation 11:14 is "great tribulation" time, and is the period when God's "two witnesses" will prophesy against the beast for 1260 days, and the Gentiles will tread the holy city for 42 months. That is the LATTER HALF of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week". Then Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet right after the "two witnesses" finish their 1260 days Witness and are killed by the beast.

 

[Douggg]

The 6th Trumpet -2nd Woe does.

At Revelation 9:12-15 the start of the tribulation is represented by the LOOSING of the four angels bound at the river Euphrates.

That is not what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15 that begins the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

 

[onetimer]

You have the "time, times, and an half" at the right place. But you DO NOT have the "abomination of desolation" event at the right place.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

And that in red does... mean in the MIDDLE of the "one week". You cannot change that.

To any in this forum, please go to Rumble and search for "Years of Christ Return". (Ignore the upfront "Warning" if you are of the few moving forward along the Narrow Path.) That video gives the relatively simple solution to Daniel 12. It is obvious... but only after you "see it". And it also shows Daniel 12 has the same mathematical pattern at Daniel 9 (70-Weeks). Then go on to read the web pages in full that the video points to, and you will have all (or at least most of ) the answers you seek (if you are sincere in looking for the Truth).

To briefly note, the "time, times, and half a time" in Daniel 12 is NOT the same as the one in Daniel 7:25 (which is the one that matches the forty-two months and 1260 days in Revelation). And there is nothing in the Bible that says they are the same, even though many assume it. (Of course, many people assume a lot of things regarding prophecy, but assumptions many times keep the Truth hidden in plain sight.)

I don't do Spiritual warfare, so it's not likely I will keep checking this forum for long. But to those true of heart, I wish you well in your journey with the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

What translation are you using ?

KJV

What specific verse in Mark 13 are you referring to ?

Click this link:

End times time frames by chapter and fit

mocking what it says in the bible is not a good idea. I suggest you delete your post.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[ewq1938]

The three woe trumpets take place during the great tribulation.

Nope. The first one is before the trib, and the last one is after the trib. Only the 6th is the timeframe of the trib.

 

[Douggg]

Click this link:

End times time frames by chapter and fit

mocking what it says in the bible is not a good idea. I suggest you delete your post.

www.christianityboard.com

Mark 13:19 does not have the word "tribulation" in it, but "affliction".

 

[Douggg]

Nope. The first one is before the trib, and the last one is after the trib. Only the 6th is the timeframe of the trib.

The three trumpet woes, all of them, or only the 6th, are not what begins the great tribulation.

Jesus said what begins the great tribulation in Matthew 24:15.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Mark 13:19 does not have the word "tribulation" in it, but "affliction".

Depends on which translation you're using.

Mark 13:19 (NKJV): For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

What is your point, though? Do you think Mark 13:19 is not a parallel verse to this verse:

Matthew 24:21 (KJV): For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Douggg]

Depends on which translation you're using.

Mark 13:19 (NKJV): For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

What is your point, though? Do you think Mark 13:19 is not a parallel verse to this verse:

Thanks for your input. Mark 13:19 is definitely a parallel to Matthew 24:21. Agreed.

My point is this - in discussions about the great tribulation, when a poster refers to the great tribulation as "the trib", it invites confusion....... because all of us hear about the pre-trib, post-trib views often being discussed and argued over, mid-trib less common.

"trib" in those views actually infers pre, post 70th week by the advocates of those views.

But the great tribulation does not begin at the beginning of the 70th week, but in the middle of the 70th week. Some posters insist mid-point of the 70th week. Other posters, like me, say middle part, not the exact middle.

Anyway, if we all use the term "great tribulation" when talking about the great tribulation, an unmatched time of trouble coming upon the world -..... and not referring to the great tribulation as "the tribulation" nor "the trib".... we can avoid a lot of confusion.

In fact, I would say just eliminate using the terms "the tribulation" and "the trib" ever. Instead say pre-70th week, and post-70th week. See first diagram. And then second diagram.






.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thanks for your input. Mark 13:19 is definitely a parallel to Matthew 24:21. Agreed.

My point is this - in discussions about the great tribulation, when a poster refers to the great tribulation as "the trib", it invites confusion....... because all of us hear about the pre-trib, post-trib views often being discussed and argued over, mid-trib less common.

"trib" in those views actually infers pre, post 70th week by the advocates of those views.

But the great tribulation does not begin at the beginning of the 70th week, but in the middle of the 70th week. Some posters insist mid-point of the 70th week. Other posters, like me, say middle part, not the exact middle.

Anyway, if we all use the term "great tribulation" when talking about the great tribulation, an unmatched time of trouble coming upon the world -..... and not referring to the great tribulation as "the tribulation" nor "the trib".... we can avoid a lot of confusion.

In fact, I would say just eliminate using the terms "the tribulation" and "the trib" ever. Instead say pre-70th week, and post-70th week.

Ugh. People make things way more complicated than they are. Anyway, I'm still not seeing why it matters whether Mark 13:19 says "affliction" or "great tribulation", especially when the parallel verse of Matthew 24:21 always says "great tribulation". It seems like instead of saying that Mark 13:19 says "affliction", as you did, you would instead have wanted to point out how the parallel verse of Matthew 24:21 says "great tribulation" to support your point about the great tribulation? No?

 

[ewq1938]

Anyway, if we all use the term "great tribulation" when talking about the great tribulation, an unmatched time of trouble coming upon the world -..... and not referring to the great tribulation as "the tribulation" nor "the trib".... we can avoid a lot of confusion.

Jesus didn't even do that so why would we? He used great trib and he used just trib without great added to it. I refer to the Greek used not to any English translation. The term "great tribulation" and "tribulation" are the same in the scriptures. It's the same very bad period of persecution in the end times.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus didn't even do that so why would we? He used great trib and he used just trib without great added to it.

Jesus did not use the expression great trib, nor trib.

What is your rapture timing view ?

 

[Douggg]

Anyway, I'm still not seeing why it matters whether Mark 13:19 says "affliction" or "great tribulation", especially when the parallel verse of Matthew 24:21 always says "great tribulation". It seems like instead of saying that Mark 13:19 says "affliction", as you did, you would instead have wanted to point out how the parallel verse of Matthew 24:21 says "great tribulation" to support your point about the great tribulation? No?

I am saying that Mark 13:19 the text says "affliction", not "tribulation". ewq1938 in his argument substitutes tribulation for affliction in that verse, via rationalization, - to support his position that the term he uses - "the tribulation" as meaning "the great tribulation".

I am saying just refer to the great tribulation as the great tribulation - don't complicate or misconstrue things.
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Pre-tribbers and post-tribbers also use "the tribulation" to describe the entire 70th week.

So they are assigning "the tribulation" to mean the entire 70th week on one hand.

And "the tribulation" to mean just the great tribulation on the other hand.

So I am saying stop with the double talk. By stop using the term "the tribulation" and "the trib". Use the term "the great tribulation" for "the great tribulation".

And pre-70th week and post-70th week instead of pre-trib and post-trib.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus did not use the expression great trib, nor trib.

Yes he did.

What is your rapture timing view ?

Post trib.

 

[ewq1938]

I am saying that Mark 13:19 the text says "affliction", not "tribulation". ewq1938 in his argument substitutes tribulation for affliction in that verse, via rationalization, - to support his position that the term he uses - "the tribulation" as meaning "the great tribulation".

No, I use the Greek in both texts not the English translation as you do. Jesus used the Greek word for tribulation in both passages. In one it is rendered tribulation and one affliction but the same word in Greek was used. I already explained this to you but apparently you did not understand it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am saying that Mark 13:19 the text says "affliction", not "tribulation". ewq1938 in his argument substitutes tribulation for affliction in that verse, via rationalization, - to support his position that the term he uses - "the tribulation" as meaning "the great tribulation".

Other translations, such as the NKJV, have "tribulation" there instead of affliction. And the parallel verse of Matthew 24:21 says "great tribulation". So, what is your point in trying to deny that Jesus talked about great tribulation in that verse?

I am saying just refer to the great tribulation as the great tribulation - don't complicate or misconstrue things.

You are the one complicating things. Why are you acting as if it matters what word is used in Mark 13:19 when we know that Jesus was describing "great tribulation" there, as we can see in the parallel verse of Matthew 24:21?

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Pre-tribbers and post-tribbers also use "the tribulation" to describe the entire 70th week.

So they are assigning "the tribulation" to mean the entire 70th week on one hand.

And "the tribulation" to mean just the great tribulation on the other hand.

So I am saying stop with the double talk. By stop using the term "the tribulation" and "the trib". Use the term "the great tribulation" for "the great tribulation".

And pre-70th week and post-70th week instead of pre-trib and post-trib.

That's all nonsense because the 70th week was fulfilled long ago as I've shown you several times. People make simple things complicated on this form all the time for no good reason.

 

[ewq1938]

The three trumpet woes, all of them, or only the 6th, are not what begins the great tribulation.

Jesus said what begins the great tribulation in Matthew 24:15.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

That's not the start but it is near the start. The start of the trib happens when the beast kingdom comes into power (Rev 13) because it rules only for 42 months which is the full and entire length of the trib/great trib.

 

[Douggg]

That's not the start but it is near the start. The start of the trib happens when the beast kingdom comes into power (Rev 13) because it rules only for 42 months which is the full and entire length of the trib/great trib.

The great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation is set up on the temple mount.