Iran vs Israel | Gog and Magog War?

[TribulationSigns]

Have you carefully considered that the fire from heaven will be destroying the militarized Islamic nations? It's like God knew! He's clearing the way for the beast.

Islamic nations”? Oh, sure. Based on which verse exactly—Second Opinions 3:16? You might want to actually read the Scriptures before making international headlines out of them. Once again, you’ve completely missed the point. God spiritualized the nations in the New Testament, remember? It’s not about physical borders or Middle Eastern headlines—it’s about the global Church and spiritual truths. This has zero to do with the national Israel and its neighboring Arab countries. But hey, if you're into newspaper theology, carry on.

Do you believe there will be a 7 year period at the end of the age in which God judges the world?

Seven 7-year time frames? Wow, that’s a creative stretch. Let me guess—another deep revelation from Daniel 9:27 with a sprinkle of “time, times, and half a time” from Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14 for dramatic effect? You’re not reading Scripture—you’re building timelines out of thin air and calling them prophecy. Maybe try sticking to what the text says by comparing Scripture with Scripture instead of constructing end-times math equations on our calendar that would make Daniel himself say, “Wait, what?

Do you believe there will be 2 prophets testifying for half of this time, before they are killed by the beast?

Do you even know who the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11:3 are? Spoiler alert: they’re NOT two guys in robes shooting fireballs out of their mouths. Shocking, I know. God isn’t writing a Marvel script—He’s revealing spiritual truths! The Two Witnesses represent New Testament Christians, empowered to preach the Gospel during the Church Age. Do you realize that God's Word is a fire coming out of our mouths? For example, have you learned that a testimony for Salvation as cool water and judgment as fire... That’s how God works in Revelation—He spiritualizes the imagery, not turns it into a literal superhero team. But hey, if you’re still waiting for Elijah and Moses or your favorite two prophets to show up with name tags, good luck with that!

Much love!

Much Wisdom!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Newpaper theology? No. And neither do I rewrite Scripture.

Nope. It’s not me doing the “spiritualizing” or "rewrite Scripture"—it’s Christ Himself spiritualizing HIS WORD. Ever read Matthew 25? The five wise virgins—are those literal, unmarried Israeli girls waiting with oil lamps? Or do you think maybe, just maybe, Jesus was using a parable to teach a spiritual truth? Spoiler: the virgins represent the Church, not a bridal party from Galilee. Revelation works the same way—it’s packed with symbols, not newspaper headlines. But if you're still looking for literal beasts with seven heads, you might be reading Revelation like it’s National Geographic while looking for a single leader who appears to be a peaceful man to begin with.

Much Wisdom!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Matthew 25:1 KJV
1) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Another good example of where the Bible itself shows when something is metaphor, in this case parable. We have Scriptural authority. And we have the understanding given to us by Jesus Himself.

First off, do you even know what the “kingdom of heaven” in Matthew 25 actually is? Is it literal heaven where God is, or symbolically the Church that represents His kingdom on Earth? Humm? Spoiler alert: It’s not talking about floating around on clouds with harps. It’s not even referring to literal heaven. It’s a parable. You know—symbolic, spiritual, like most of what Jesus taught.

The phrase “shall be likened unto ten virgins” is Jesus’ way of saying, “I’m going to explain a deep spiritual truth using a symbolic story.” But sure, keep picturing ten unmarried girls holding oil lamps at some wedding. Because apparently, the Almighty God needed to give us a moral lesson about bridesmaid etiquette?

Hello? Wake up. The virgins represent the Church—the people of God—divided between the wise and the foolish. It's about spiritual readiness, not physical wedding parties. But if you're still looking for literal virgins, you're going to miss the entire point... or even Scriptural authority... again!

Matthew 25:13 KJV
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Your point is?

Based on what? As far as I can see, this is your opinion, but it completely lacks Scriptural authority.

I have explained Matthew 25 in depth with "Scriptural Authority" elsewhere on this forum. Please use the search feature. Thank you.

Revelation 12:3 KJV
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

We are told this is a symbol, and we are told what the symbol means.

John saw another sign in heaven—not just a random spectacle, but a divinely appointed miracle, a σημεῖον (sēmeion) in the Greek, meaning a sign with spiritual significance. While some translators rendered it “wonder,” the original intent points to a miraculous sign—a divine symbol loaded with prophetic meaning. John wasn’t hallucinating; he was watching a spiritual revelation unfold before his eyes like a heavenly broadcast, directly from the Spirit of God.

So whether the English translation says “wonder” or “sign,” the truth remains: John was witnessing a Miracle-Sign—a visible, symbolic event that revealed deeper, spiritual truths. These signs were never meant to entertain; they were meant to teach. And this is precisely why, now that the Canon of Scripture is complete, there is no further need for miracle workers. The only true miracle today is the proclamation of the pure, unadulterated gospel of Christ, which alone has the power to raise the spiritually dead.

Yes, despite the protests of those who still chase after signs and wonders, they miss the whole point: miracles were never ends in themselves—they were signs pointing to Christ and His finished work. Once the full revelation was delivered, the signs ceased, and now the Church walks by faith, not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7).

Revelation 12:9 KJV
9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This is Scriptural authority.

And? The great dragon is Satan, a devil who is a SPIRIT. The spirit of a wicked man! Your point is?

You can mock me all you like, I just don't care. It reflects on you, not on me. You are the mocker, not me.

Time will tell soon enough.

Like I said, famously, "The Lord judges and I am comfortable with it."

Much love!

Much Wisdom!

 

[marks]

The virgins represent the Church—the people of God—divided between the wise and the foolish.

Show that to me in Scripture. Without that, I don't care how long you proclaim it, how ill mannered you are as you do so, it remains your opinion, unsupported by Scripture.

And? The great dragon is Satan, a devil who is a SPIRIT. The spirit of a wicked man! Your point is?

My point is, the Bible tells us that this dragon is a symbol for Satan. We're told that it's a symbol. We are told what the symbol means.

But the virgins representing the church, that remains your unsupported opinion. That's what my point here is.

I have explained Matthew 25 in depth with "Scriptural Authority" elsewhere on this forum. Please use the search feature. Thank you.

Nice dodge!

It's OK, you need not explain. I already know the answer. There is no such authority. I already know that.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

No not at all!

You both believe Jesus can return "very soon" so you share that with Pretrib and that is a dangerous belief because it means both beliefs can lead someone to be deceived by the antichrist/false christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You both believe Jesus can return "very soon" so you share that with Pretrib and that is a dangerous belief because it means both beliefs can lead someone to be deceived by the antichrist/false christ.

Oh no! We could be deceived by your imaginary boogeyman just because we believe that Jesus could return soon? As if it would somehow be hard to recognize such a person when he was blaspheming God and being worshiped and such? LOL.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Show that to me in Scripture. Without that, I don't care how long you proclaim it, how ill mannered you are as you do so, it remains your opinion, unsupported by Scripture.

I did. In another thread. Believe it or not, the world doesn’t revolve around your need for a personal recap — try the search button, it’s not just decorative.

My point is, the Bible tells us that this dragon is a symbol for Satan. We're told that it's a symbol. We are told what the symbol means.

Oh really? The dragon is Satan? Incredible insight — it’s almost like that’s been written in plain text for 2,000 years.

But the virgins representing the church, that remains your unsupported opinion. That's what my point here is.

LOL. Sounds like you skimmed past the Bible with one eye open and called it a study.

See, “virgin” isn’t just about someone who never dated — it’s how God pictures His Church: supposed to be pure, set apart, and espoused to Christ. You know, like a spiritual relationship, not a dating profile.

Just like the candlestick "signifies" the Church meant to give light — not just look shiny on Sunday morning. Ten virgins? That’s not a headcount for a bridesmaid party. It symbolizes the whole congregation. All ten looked the part externally, but only five had the Holy Spirit — aka “oil” — and were actually prepared for Christ's return.

The rest? No oil, no light, no clue. Spiritually blind in the dark, caught unprepared. Ever heard “many are called, few are chosen”? Yeah, it applies here too.

Oh, and that number 10 popping up everywhere — it’s not random. It's symbolic of fullness. Ten lepers, ten pieces of silver, ten servants, ten horns, etc. — not because God likes round numbers, but because He’s painting a bigger picture.

So when you see Revelation 2:10:

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days..."

— that’s a portrait of the full trial the church will go through. Ten days = fullness of tribulation. Ten virgins = fullness of the church. And sleep? often used in Scripture as a symbol of death. That’s why all ten virgins are asleep — just before Christ’s return, the Church is pictured as killed, powerless, waiting for the resurrection. Only the wise virgins/Two Witnesses shall be resurrected with the Spirit of Life to prophesy again with judgment upon the fallen church.

So again, the five wise had oil (Spirit), five foolish didn’t. And when the Groom shows up, only the wise enter in. Why? Because they were actually ready — not just spiritually sleepwalking.

But hey, by all means, keep ignoring all that rich symbolism — it’s not like Jesus ever spoke in parables or anything, right?

It's OK, you need not explain.

Oh, of course you don’t want to read — why bother with facts when denial is basically your spiritual gift?

I already know the answer.

Really???

There is no such authority. I already know that.

Say the foolish virgin.

Much love!

Much Wisdom

 

[TribulationSigns]

You both believe Jesus can return "very soon" so you share that with Pretrib and that is a dangerous belief because it means both beliefs can lead someone to be deceived by the antichrist/false christ.

Oh no, how terrifying—believing Jesus can return soon, ewq1938!! Imagine that, actually taking Him at His Word when He said, “Behold, I come quickly” (Revelation 22:12). What a reckless, spiritually dangerous idea! After all, we all know Jesus really meant, “Behold, I come… eventually, after you’ve figured out the perfect timeline and watched enough news headlines.

So let me get this straight: the urgency Jesus Himself emphasized, the watchfulness He commanded, and the hope that Paul said was our “blessed hope” (Titus 2:13)… those are now red flags? Suddenly, anticipating the Lord’s return means I’m prepping to be deceived by the Antichrist? That’s some Olympic-level theological gymnastics you got right there.

Maybe instead of warning people about being “too eager” for Christ’s return, we should start warning them about being too comfortable with delay—like the wicked servant in Matthew 24:48 who said, “My lord delayeth his coming.” You know, the one who got caught off guard and was cast out.

If believing Jesus might return soon is dangerous, then I guess the apostles were the most dangerous people of all—since they lived in constant expectancy. But hey, what did they know, right?

 

[ewq1938]

Oh no, how terrifying—believing Jesus can return soon, ewq1938!!

I guess Apostasy isn't very terrifying either. No need to be afraid of a mark!

Either way, your belief has something in common with Pretrib which is core to endtimes deception. Maybe they will be standing in line next to you when "Jesus" appears so soon.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I guess Apostasy isn't very terrifying either. No need to be afraid of a mark!

Oh, I know exactly what the apostasy of the Church is, and I know what the abomination of desolation really is. These aren’t distant future theories—they’re unfolding right now, right in front of us. And the mark of the beast is taking place now. But you’d only recognize that if your spiritual eyes and ears are open.

Jesus said there would be signs in the sun, moon, and stars (Luke 21:25–28)—and they are terrifying… but only to those who actually discern them. These aren’t random cosmic events; they are the divine countdown, warning signals of the Lord’s return if we understand the signs of Church's judgment for one hour, even if we do not know exact will end - the moment Christ return. If you can't see that, I’d seriously encourage you to stop debating timelines and start examining your own heart. Because the real question isn’t “when is Christ coming?”—it’s “will you be ready when He does?”

And if none of this makes sense to you—if you think it's just hype or fear-mongering—then maybe it’s time to ask yourself the one question no one dares to: Am I truly saved? Because the spiritually blind aren't watching for His return… they’re too busy scoffing at those who are.

 

[quietthinker]

How do you cure shortsightedness in one who thinks they have 20/20 vision?

 

[ewq1938]

Oh, I know exactly what the apostasy of the Church is, and I know what the abomination of desolation really is.

Great.

 

[TribulationSigns]

That's the point. We stay with what is written over personal imaginations and opinions. Plain text, that you can know. But when you start changing the meanings of words around without Biblical mandate, then you are just filling in with your own ideas.

You don't get it. Dragon symbolically "is" Satan. He is a spirit and NOT omnipresent, and so Satan cannot inhabit all of mankind simultaneously. Therefore that spirit Satan that is in all unsaved people is decidedly not one super being, but many spirits in billions of people. Meaning by necessity their own spirits of disobedience. For example, there is no "the Great Red Dragon Devil made me do it," unless we understand that devil is our own spirit of disobedience. Satan is a spirit, and he works WITHIN mankind.

1st Timothy 4:1-3

• "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
• Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
• Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

People who believe the end is near are about as close to being date setters as Timothy was! Timothy is not talking about something that was taking place in his day, but something that was coming, an apostasy INCREASES than ever wherein the church would give heed to seducing spirits with doctrines of the devil (evil spirits). When? When these spirits are loosed from the pit along with Satan.

Revelation 16:13-14

• "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
• For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Now the Spirit speaks expressly (Clearly, Distinctly) that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits. Deceiving spirits out of the mouths of the False prophets of this Dragon (Satan). It's not like this isn't prophesied again and again and again. It's not the same old apostasy. It's not the same old tribulation, it's worldwide apostasy and it's GREAT Tribulation, because something has been added, which is Satan has been loosed specifically for this purpose "by God!" That is why we see the rise of false prophets and christs today. The love of God grows cold when so-called Christians only care about themselves.

Do you understand who Dragon is? Of course, he is symbolically Satan, as plainly stated, but do you understand what God talked about here? For example:

Ask yourself, how does those gathered from the 4 corners of the earth by the spirit Satan (loosed) come to fight against the saints' camp? Is it with atheists with guns and bombs? ..No. Is it with proclamations banning the Churches all over the world? ..No. Is it with a Russian assault force to take over the city of Jerusalem in the Middle East? No! The spirit Satan assaults the Church with people from all over the earth preaching love and masquerading as God's good servants. They are seen by God as Gog and Magog!

2nd Corinthians 11:13-15

• "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
• And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an messenger of light.
• Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

THIS is how Satan and his army of false prophets and christs attacks the saints' camp in Revelation 20! By people professing that they are of the Lamb, but speaking as a Dragon. By coming up out of the earth as false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. By the Church thinking it is doing good, but being unfaithful in their "spiritual fornication," courting these people's god rather than keeping the word of their own God of the Bible.

Revelation 13:11-12

• "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
• And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

The second beast represents the end time rule within God's congregation causing abomination, as these fasle prophets and christs come with the power (horns) of prophesy, but it is false prophesy! Only those with the Spirit of God in the congregations (the truly saved, the two witnesses) will "see" this abomination in God's house. Because they know the difference between speaking the words from the Bible (as the Lamb), and speaking the words of the adversary his words (as a Dragon). Those without the Spirit of God, you can quote scripture all day long and they just don't get why you think "what you have quoted from God" is actually the truth. By the accepting more and more the tenants of the world into the Church, they make Satan strong enough within to take over and ultimately kill (symbolically) all the true witnesses of God. Their testimony of Truth is silent as there is a spiritual famine of hearing the word of God going on in the Church! Then they shall flee from the midst of her, for her judgment has come.

So yes, Dragon symbolically is Satan, which is a spirit of disobedience in every man who has not yet been born again, they will come into church and forced everyone who have NOT YET sealed by God to be sealed with the Mark of the Beast so they will remain lost like the rest of the world. That is the judgment of the unfaithful church.