Thank you and that's your version of only 2 comings, i get it.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?
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Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Yes, you're right my bad, but it doesn't conflict with the 3 comings given you.
i just missed the part that on the final judgement He shall come with His angels from Heaven.
Sending them to the 4 corners of the earth to gather people of all nation, kindred and tongue to be judge.
This is apparently the final judgement where all the people are finally separated, ones to Heaven and ones to hell.
i did give you the quote; Matthew 25:31&32
Let's skip the first coming then.
Second coming, He's not coming on earth, but only in the clouds and rapture takes place.
Third comings, after pouring GOD's wrath which is plagues and never seen calamites on the ungodly in earth. He with the armies of Heaven will come to earth to wage war with anti-Christ and the kings and their armies
Anti-Christ who's possess by satan, and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire... (Revelation 19:20).
satan will be bound and be cast into the bottomless pit a thousand years, yet after the thousand years fulfilled, he'll be loosed a little season. (Revelation 20:3)
Now, if the final judgement is after anti-Christ and all the darkness charade in the world and satan is bound, why let him out after a thousand years?
he's out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth 'a little season', ............ (Revelation 20:8).
Only after this little season, satan will be finally cast into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet already are, forever and ever.
Forth coming, He shall come with His angels sending them to the four corners of the earth to get people of all nation kindred and tongue for the 'final judgement', (Revelation 20:11 and onward)
Finally, death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Two reasons why the rapture has to be pre-tribulation:
1. The rapture is imminent, i.e. Jesus tells us that we don't know when he will come, it could happen at any moment - there are no events or signs that must precede the rapture. Therefore the foretold events of the Great Tribulation cannot start before the rapture has taken place because that would be a sign that the rapture was going to occur in the very near future.
Matthew 25:13 (WEB):
2. The "restrainer" has to be removed before the Great Tribulation can occur. See 2 Thessalonians 2 (below). Paul is correcting Christians who had thought that Jesus had already returned and was present, and that the events of the Great Tribulation were about to begin, so he tells them that before Jesus returns for the Church there will be a falling away from the truth (apostasy), and that before the Great Tribulation can begin the antichrist must be revealed. The apostasy occurred later (a long time ago now!), so the rapture can occur at any moment. The antichrist has not yet been revealed (that would be a sign or event that would make the rapture no longer imminent).
2 Thessalonians 2 (UASV+):
The Great Tribulation starts when the antichrist makes a peace treaty with unbeliving Israel - the start of the last 7 years of the appointed 70 years for Israel (Daniel 9:24) - Daniel 9:27 (WEB):
So the antichrist must be revealed before the Great tribulation can start. Today, the unbelieving Israel have returned to their land, but the "restrainer" is still preventing the antichrist from appearing. The "restrainer" is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit permanently indwells Christians:
John 14:16 (WEB):
Therefore, for the Holy Spirit to be taken out of the way, all Christians, and the restraining ministry of the Church, must be removed from the earth - the rapture. So the rapture must occur before the Great Tribulation.
1. The rapture is imminent, i.e. Jesus tells us that we don't know when he will come, it could happen at any moment - there are no events or signs that must precede the rapture. Therefore the foretold events of the Great Tribulation cannot start before the rapture has taken place because that would be a sign that the rapture was going to occur in the very near future.
Matthew 25:13 (WEB):
(13) Watch therefore, for you don’t know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
Matthew 24:44 (WEB):(44) Therefore also be ready, for in an hour that you don’t expect, the Son of Man will come.
2. The "restrainer" has to be removed before the Great Tribulation can occur. See 2 Thessalonians 2 (below). Paul is correcting Christians who had thought that Jesus had already returned and was present, and that the events of the Great Tribulation were about to begin, so he tells them that before Jesus returns for the Church there will be a falling away from the truth (apostasy), and that before the Great Tribulation can begin the antichrist must be revealed. The apostasy occurred later (a long time ago now!), so the rapture can occur at any moment. The antichrist has not yet been revealed (that would be a sign or event that would make the rapture no longer imminent).
2 Thessalonians 2 (UASV+):
(1) Now we request you, brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him,
(2) that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a word or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
(3) Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
(4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, showing himself as being God.
(5) Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
(6) And now you know the thing restraining him, so that in his time he will be revealed.
(7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way.
(8) Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth, and wipe out by the appearance of his coming,
(9) namely, the one whose coming is in accordance with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
(10) and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
(11) For this reason God is sending upon them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie,
(12) in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
(13) But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits for salvation, through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
(14) To this he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(15) So then, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions which you were taught, whether by spoken word or by letter from us.
(16) Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
(17) comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
The Great Tribulation starts when the antichrist makes a peace treaty with unbeliving Israel - the start of the last 7 years of the appointed 70 years for Israel (Daniel 9:24) - Daniel 9:27 (WEB):
(27) He will make a firm covenant with many for one week. In the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. On the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, wrath will be poured out on the desolate.”
So the antichrist must be revealed before the Great tribulation can start. Today, the unbelieving Israel have returned to their land, but the "restrainer" is still preventing the antichrist from appearing. The "restrainer" is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit permanently indwells Christians:
John 14:16 (WEB):
(16) I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever:
Romans 8:9 (WEB):(9) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.
Therefore, for the Holy Spirit to be taken out of the way, all Christians, and the restraining ministry of the Church, must be removed from the earth - the rapture. So the rapture must occur before the Great Tribulation.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Broadly have some agreement with you, specifically have some disagreement with you.
1 Thes 4:13-17
Is About individuals having been “made Whole (body, soul, spirit) , being Claimed, Redeemed, Transported, From the Earth To the Clouds to meet Their Redeemer.
By “default”, those NOT Redeemed, Remain “left behind, ON Earth.
Secret?
Secret is … is Unknown, unsure, unheard, invisible.
* Secret to the individual being Redeemed?
No. They know, Trust, Sure, Heard, See.
* Secret to the individual Left on Earth, unknown, unsure, unheard, invisible? Yes.
Yes.
No.
Rather About individuals “IN Christ, meeting their Redeemer, and Seeing Him, AS He IS.
Not Quiet to those Being Redeemed.
Unheard to those NOT Being Redeemed.
Yes.
No. Many “Believers” Are “NOT”, “IN Christ”.
IN Christ, Applies to “Specific (Made Whole) Individuals.
Rather “THEN” the bodily Alive;
THEY…(Made Whole / ( soul sav-ED, spirit quickened-ED, body Crucified Dead, Living IN Jesus’ Risen Body, with the Power of God (ie. christ, IN Them.)
Yes. Meeting AND SEEING (for the First Time)…(AS He “IS” ( Spirit) Christ the Lord, Their Savior and Redeemer.
A “disappearance” from the EYES, Remaing (left behind) On Earth.
A “Homecoming” For the “Individual being Redeemed.
True. Such Passages ARE Specific TO individuals MADE Whole and Being Redeemed.
Actually…
It is a … AN Order and Way… Regarding;
The Righteous And The Un-Righteous…
* Recognition; Their “Dividing” Difference.
* Separating; The Divided, One from the other.
* Redeeming; TAKING, ( By the Lord) the individuals “WITH- IN” Christ the Lord.
Before, Tribulations From God ARE Sent Down To Earth From Heaven.
Before, the Wrath of the Lamb, the Wrath of the Devil, The Wrath of God…is Sent Down from Heaven, For All “Living men “ON Earth” to Experience Spiritual Anger (of the Lamb, the Devil, God).
No “Anger : Wrath send Down from Heaven, Has Been Prepared “For Those “IN Christ” to be subject to, or experience.”
* Redeeming… IS “Taking” Claiming that which is His [To ]B]Claim and Take.
* Christ the Lord Jesus… CLAIMS, REDEEMS, TAKES, that (he, him, she, her)… that IS His.
Expressly… they “IN Christ”
(before the Trib)
* God Shall … CLAIM, REDEEM, TAKE…that (he, him, she, her), that IS His. ( Before, During, After the Trib).
Expressly… they from the beginning to the ending… who bodily dies, Having bodily died, (In Any Ancient/ historical / modern/ era)…Heartfully Believing IN…
God Himself;
Gods Word;
Gods Prophetic Messiah,
Gods Revealed Son Jesus,
Gods Revealed Power to Raise the Dead unto Life.
Aside From “Those IN Christ, And Who Redeems Them AND WHEN AND WHY…Paul mentions ONE example in:
1 Thes 4:14
[14] For if we [Whomever that belief applies to, WHO IS NOT IN Christ)…believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
* Gods “bringing / taking is the First Resurrection”… “while Christs bringing / taking IS the Rapture.
* God shall Redeem, Claim, TAKE Them.
* Ultimately…
Those “individuals” Neither…
Claimed, Redeemed, TAKEN by Christ the Lord Or God…
Shall Be…Separated From the Redeemed… Have NO Access to “Their” Prepared Place of Peace, Comfort, Beauty, With their Redeemer”.
** AND Rather “SENT” to A Place “Prepared, For Them”… VOID of The Lord Gods, Peace, Comfort, Beauty.
Disagree.
Modern language of “left behind” … is Spot on, Regarding, Those “Not IN Christ”… “Those Not Claimed, Redeemed, Taken… BY Christ”… Left… to remain on Earth…During the Trib…experiencing Any portion of:
The Wrath of the Lamb,
The Wrath of the Devil
The Wrath of God…
They “on Earth” Still having opportunity (while alive)… to Bodily Die “in Heartful Belief”… and partake in Gods First Resurrection.
God bless you,
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Hi DavidJumping in here …
Preface… God is Omni-Present.
God has numerous , Names, Titles. descriptions (Just as men do.)
It is BY WHAT “Specific… Name, Title, Description… that Clarifies… What is Applicable, between God and an individual…
Same as when your relationship with a female is “exclusive to you, and her, husband and she exclusively your wife… or your child calls you Dad, and other children do not, or you call Donald Trump President, but some little children call him Grandpa.”
Jesus IS Lord, but not every mans Lord, Savior, Redeemer…
The Lamb of God, the Son of man, the Son of God, Christ, etc. each have specific applications, in relationship to earthly manKind.
Who was Sent and Came to Earth was… The Son of man.
He walked the hills and valleys of the face of the Earth.
Who was revealed, ON Earth… Was the Word of God, in the Likeness, AS a man…called, Jesus, having numerous titles..Teacher, Lord, High Priest, Savior, Son of God, Christ, etc.
Who Left The Earth…was the Son of Man…His “encompassing Titles having been Revealed”.
Who Shall “Return”…”Come” as He was Seen Leaving… IS the Son of Man, with Power.
Who Steps on the Earth, IS the Son of Man …With Power, and additional …Title King of kings.
Now the mystery…
Does the “Lamb of God”…step foot on “tangible Earth”, (Mt ZION), during the Trib?
Yes.
Is the “Son of man”… Seen by all Human Eyes sitting on a White Cloud, Before the Trib Ends?
Yes.
Does that ^^… by First appearance and interpreted by Some…. “Being the Return of Jesus”?
Yes.
* The Literal “Return of Jesus”… (Who IS in Heaven) IS His … Not Being “IN” Heaven, and rather “ON” the Earth, that Which IS “Not Heavenly”.
Heaven and Earth Has a distinct Division…Yet Parts of “Heaven” Literally come in contact with the Earth.
Earth, IS Dry Land.
Presence of Heaven, in contact with the Earth, is called; Holy Land.
( recall Moses on the Mountain, Earth… yet high up in the clouds… thus the Lord call the mountain top “holy land”, as heaven is holy”)
* The Presence of Heaven, IS Clouds, a dividing Water Barrier of sorts.
* Farther upward, whereby the Presence of Stars are visible at night, is also Heaven.
* Farther upward, whereby Black holes (so called) is Also Heaven.
* And “Above “Those 3 layers (so to speak of Heavens)…IS the Heaven of Heavens, Invisible to man’s eyes, Called Gods Estate.
* All the “Heavens” Are God Throne.
No man, other than Jesus, came Down from Gods Estate to Earth, And Returned to Gods Estate (The heaven Above the Heavens).
He shall return to Earth…
He descending From Above the Heavens of Heaven to the Heavenly Clouds…
Is Not Jesus “yet” Returning to Earth.
Eph 4:
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
If you want to know who gets taken and who gets left, go to Matthew 24.
“As it was in the days of Noah… they were eating and drinking, until the flood came and took them all away...”
— Matthew 24:38–39
Who was taken?
The wicked. In judgment.
Jesus said: “Two will be in the field — one is taken, and one is left.”
— Matthew 24:40
He was continuing the same point:
The “taken” are taken in destruction, just like in Noah’s day.
The “left” are the righteous — the ones preserved.
That’s the opposite of what Left Behind books teach.
You claim Christ comes and secretly takes “made whole” people.
Where is that in Scripture?
Because every single passage that speaks of His coming — 1 Thess. 4, 1 Cor. 15, Matthew 24, Revelation 19 — describes:
A visible return
A resurrection
And a final gathering of the saints followed by judgment
Nowhere does Scripture teach:
A two-part second coming
A pre-trib evacuation of believers
Or a second chance after the rapture during some “tribulation trial period”
Let’s be brutally honest:
The “Left Behind” theology you’re defending was invented in the 1800s, popularized by John Nelson Darby, footnoted by Scofield, and marketed as gospel to an undiscerning church.
It’s not in the early Church.
It’s not in the epistles.
It’s not in the Gospels.
And it sure as heaven isn’t in Paul.
None of the Apostles or early Church Fathers taught this blasphemous, misleading poison.
Jesus explicitly compares His return to the flood.
“But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”
— Matthew 24:37–41 (KJV)
Don’t you see what the children of the Devil have done with their “free Bible” from Hell they carpet bombed across the US and Europe in 1909?
They’ve taken the warnings of Christ and inverted them — turning judgment into deliverance, and convincing the Church to stand outside the Ark thinking they’re safe.
They’ve led millions of Christians to believe that being judged outside the covenant is somehow a "good thing"…
while those who deny Christ and blaspheme His name are exalted as the rightful heirs of the Earth.
Just as the Serpent twisted the Word in Eden, so his children have twisted it again — flipping judgment into deliverance, and deception into doctrine.
They told you that to be “taken” is to be rescued…
when Jesus said it's the wicked who are taken in judgment.
They told you that to be “left behind” is to be cursed…
when Noah and his family were the ones left behind — safe inside the Ark.
“The flood came, and took them all away…
So shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”
— Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:39)
Wake up.
Jesus wasn’t describing a quiet disappearance of believers.
He wasn’t painting some pre-trib rescue fantasy for the lukewarm.
He was describing a public, terrifying, global act of judgment —
and the only ones preserved are those already sealed in Him,
just like Noah was sealed inside the Ark.
So if you’ve been taught the Left Behind version of this passage invented in the 1800s —
then you’ve been flipped upside down,
fed lies by false teachers from the Pit,
and handed a false hope that will not save you.
The rapture lie doesn’t prepare you for Christ’s return.
It by design, prepares you to be caught off guard when judgment falls.
It’s a lie from Hell, crafted to lead misled Christians straight into its gates.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
The flood killed, drowned, took away their life.
The “Taken” are the “Righteous” “redeemed” by the Lord God, “Called to”, “Escorted to” the Lord God.
The Damned are “Sent” Away From The Lord God.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Church is raptured before the tribulation. The great tribulation begins when the Abomination of Desolation is set up in the midst of the week.
Immediately after the tribulation the Lord sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. It is the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured from the earth and this occurs at the 6th seal. This is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. Jesus remains in the clouds as His angels gather the elect.
The Church comes from heaven with the Lord and then returns with the Lord, along with those gathered from the earth, back to heaven. All remain in heaven and are the great multitude that attend the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Then the 7th seal is opened and the one-year wrath of God begins. At the end of wrath, all return with Jesus as part of the armies of heaven. Armageddon happens and then the Lord sets His feet on the Mount of Olives........second advent.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Those that are taken are the righteous. The Church is taken to heaven before the seals are opened.
Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.
9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.
10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
I seen no visible coming in 1 Thes 4. Nor do I see judgement.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What the Word teaches is the Lord Himself will come at the trump of God or voice of God. This is the fullness of the Gentiles.
Then there will be 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest. Then the Lord will send His angels to gather elect at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. This is the second harvest which occurs at the 6th seal.
All return to heaven for the marriage and are the great multitude.
Then the armies of heaven return with Lord for Armageddon.
This I could agree on.
Let's be brutally honest:
John Nelson Darby claimed that Israel would be restored as a nation. There was no nation of Israel for close to 1800 years, and yet he was correct that Israel would be restored. That's faith in the Word of God despite what his eyes saw.
What you are teaching was birthed by unbelieving men that did believe that God would keep His promise to Israel. They saw no Israel, so they claimed the Church was Israel.
As history shows us, they were wrong.
Paul certainly taught it. John absolutely taught it.
Noah was shut in the ark and the flood came.
Who do you think was yelling "don't leave us here"? Who was taken away and who was left.
Who said anything about being lukewarm?
The Lord is at the doors. It would be best to get ready, as He is coming to take us to His Fathers house.
Watch as we have been instructed.
Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Unfortunately, the things you have been taught do not agree with scripture.
How can you possibly have the Church going through the wrath of God when we are not appointed to wrath.
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
Its like talking to a wall of brainwashed robots..
You keep twisting Christ’s own words to fit a fantasy that was literally invented in the 1800s, popularized by John Nelson Darby, and force-fed to the Church by Cyrus Scofield, a disbarred conman funded by Zionist agents and Oxford University Press. And now you’ve been programmed to defend doctrines no Apostle ever taught, no early Christian ever believed, and not a single Church Father would recognize as truth. You’re clinging to a theological system that didn’t exist before 1909. Not one Christian on Earth believed this garbage before Scofield’s “study Bible” poisoned the pews.
Jesus wasn’t vague. He said the flood came and took them all away—and so shall it be at His return. He's saying the wicked are “taken” in judgment, just like in Noah’s day. Noah wasn’t “raptured” out—he was left behind, sealed in the ark. So when Jesus says, “One shall be taken and the other left,” He’s obviously continuing the exact same point. Even Slingblade and Forest Gump should see this clearly. If you’ve been taught otherwise, then you’ve been flipped upside down by false teachers from Hell who have perverted Christ’s warning into some Left Behind bedtime story. If being “taken” was a good thing, Jesus wouldn’t have compared it to those drowned in judgment during the days of Noah. You cant clearly see what even a child should see and understand, because you're under the veil.
There is no pre-trib rapture, there is no two-phase second coming, there is no second chance after the saints are gone. That’s all part of the same satanic inversion—the same “you shall not surely die” lie wrapped in end-times packaging. The Bible never says Christ will sneak back and evacuate the comfy Christians. What it actually describes—in every passage you cherry-pick—is loud, public, visible, terrifying: the resurrection, the gathering, and the judgment. It is one return, one event no split, no secret.
You are not rightly dividing Scripture and as usual, you're are butchering it and reading your theology back into the text. No Apostle taught this. Paul didn’t teach it, John didn’t teach it, Matthew didn’t teach it. And every single Church Father for the first 1800 years of Christianity—from Ignatius to Irenaeus, Justin Martyr to Tertullian—would call your doctrine heresy. You are defending a lie that didn’t even exist until a fake Bible filled with Zionist footnotes hit American churches in 1909. And now you’re out here arguing that being “taken” in judgment is actually salvation?
You are deceived and deep under the veil...
Wake up. Before you’re left outside the Ark thinking you're saved—just like they planned.
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth…”
— Galatians 3:1 (KJV)
You keep twisting Christ’s own words to fit a fantasy that was literally invented in the 1800s, popularized by John Nelson Darby, and force-fed to the Church by Cyrus Scofield, a disbarred conman funded by Zionist agents and Oxford University Press. And now you’ve been programmed to defend doctrines no Apostle ever taught, no early Christian ever believed, and not a single Church Father would recognize as truth. You’re clinging to a theological system that didn’t exist before 1909. Not one Christian on Earth believed this garbage before Scofield’s “study Bible” poisoned the pews.
Jesus wasn’t vague. He said the flood came and took them all away—and so shall it be at His return. He's saying the wicked are “taken” in judgment, just like in Noah’s day. Noah wasn’t “raptured” out—he was left behind, sealed in the ark. So when Jesus says, “One shall be taken and the other left,” He’s obviously continuing the exact same point. Even Slingblade and Forest Gump should see this clearly. If you’ve been taught otherwise, then you’ve been flipped upside down by false teachers from Hell who have perverted Christ’s warning into some Left Behind bedtime story. If being “taken” was a good thing, Jesus wouldn’t have compared it to those drowned in judgment during the days of Noah. You cant clearly see what even a child should see and understand, because you're under the veil.
There is no pre-trib rapture, there is no two-phase second coming, there is no second chance after the saints are gone. That’s all part of the same satanic inversion—the same “you shall not surely die” lie wrapped in end-times packaging. The Bible never says Christ will sneak back and evacuate the comfy Christians. What it actually describes—in every passage you cherry-pick—is loud, public, visible, terrifying: the resurrection, the gathering, and the judgment. It is one return, one event no split, no secret.
You are not rightly dividing Scripture and as usual, you're are butchering it and reading your theology back into the text. No Apostle taught this. Paul didn’t teach it, John didn’t teach it, Matthew didn’t teach it. And every single Church Father for the first 1800 years of Christianity—from Ignatius to Irenaeus, Justin Martyr to Tertullian—would call your doctrine heresy. You are defending a lie that didn’t even exist until a fake Bible filled with Zionist footnotes hit American churches in 1909. And now you’re out here arguing that being “taken” in judgment is actually salvation?
You are deceived and deep under the veil...
Wake up. Before you’re left outside the Ark thinking you're saved—just like they planned.
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth…”
— Galatians 3:1 (KJV)
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The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
Jesus said the wicked would be taken at His return — just like in the days of Noah.
Not raptured. Taken in judgment.
Paul didn’t preach otherwise.
Peter didn’t.
Jude didn’t.
John didn’t.
Ignatius didn’t.
Polycarp didn’t.
Irenaeus didn’t.
Justin Martyr didn’t.
Tertullian didn’t.
Hippolytus didn’t.
Clement of Rome didn’t.
Clement of Alexandria didn’t.
Origen didn’t.
Athanasius didn’t.
John Chrysostom didn’t.
Basil the Great didn’t.
Ambrose didn’t.
Augustine didn’t.
Cyprian didn’t.
Gregory of Nyssa didn’t.
Gregory of Nazianzus didn’t.
Jerome didn’t.
The Didache didn’t.
Even Martin Luther didn’t.
John Calvin didn’t.
John Wesley didn’t.
Charles Spurgeon didn’t.
But hey…
Grandpa John Boy Walton told us back in 1930s Tennessee that all those fools were WRONG —
and C.I. Scofield, the disbarred con man with a Zionist handler,
was the real voice of truth.
Says so right there in the footnotes of the "free Bible" he got from Oxford University Press in 1909.
Wrapped in leather.
Bound in lies.
Preached like Gospel.
Amen?
No.
Unhinged Insanity.
Not raptured. Taken in judgment.
Paul didn’t preach otherwise.
Peter didn’t.
Jude didn’t.
John didn’t.
Ignatius didn’t.
Polycarp didn’t.
Irenaeus didn’t.
Justin Martyr didn’t.
Tertullian didn’t.
Hippolytus didn’t.
Clement of Rome didn’t.
Clement of Alexandria didn’t.
Origen didn’t.
Athanasius didn’t.
John Chrysostom didn’t.
Basil the Great didn’t.
Ambrose didn’t.
Augustine didn’t.
Cyprian didn’t.
Gregory of Nyssa didn’t.
Gregory of Nazianzus didn’t.
Jerome didn’t.
The Didache didn’t.
Even Martin Luther didn’t.
John Calvin didn’t.
John Wesley didn’t.
Charles Spurgeon didn’t.
But hey…
Grandpa John Boy Walton told us back in 1930s Tennessee that all those fools were WRONG —
and C.I. Scofield, the disbarred con man with a Zionist handler,
was the real voice of truth.
Says so right there in the footnotes of the "free Bible" he got from Oxford University Press in 1909.
Wrapped in leather.
Bound in lies.
Preached like Gospel.
Amen?
No.
Unhinged Insanity.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Because they have been brainwashed = the same as everyone.
It is only when we submit to "It is written" and the Holy Spirit that we are able to SEE
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
You're not getting it.
Darby didn’t have “faith.”
He had a Zionist fantasy, and the church bought it after receiving millions of "FREE BIBLES" from Oxford Press because they were being buttered up for a geopolitical land grab.
Let’s be brutally honest — again:
Darby’s “prediction” that Israel would become a nation wasn’t prophecy.
It was policy, a marketing scheme for a planned annexation of Palestine, dressed up in King James English and sold to naïve pew-sitters as fulfilled scripture.
That’s not faith.
That’s conditioning.
You really think it’s a miracle that Darby "believed" in the restoration of Israel — when his entire theological system was crafted to justify it?
That’s like a pickpocket warning you about rising crime; while stealing your wallet.
That’s like a casino prophet telling you the dice are holy; while the table’s rigged.
That’s like the wolf preaching about lamb safety; from inside the sheep pen.
The modern “nation of Israel” wasn’t the result of "fulfilled prophecy", it was the result of a bankrolled violent war, British imperialism, and global Zionist lobbying.
And Scofield’s job was to make sure every red-blooded churchgoer in America clapped like seals while it happened.
You weren’t witnessing prophecy.
You were watching the rollout of a Luciferian bait-and-switch —
a plan to hijack the Gospel, exalt an unbelieving nation, and rewire your Bible to serve a political throne, not a heavenly one.
But sure, keep quoting Song of Solomon as rapture doctrine.
While Rome burns, you’re writing wedding invitations to a bride Christ already married —
and cheering for a nation that still hates His name.
Wake up.
You're under the veil..
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ISRAEL.
If you don’t know that simple truth—
you’re still under the veil.
And you're not following the Gospel.
You are deceived.
“They are not all Israel, which are of Israel... That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
— Romans 9:6–8
“If ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29
“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:28
This isn’t up for debate.
This is the Gospel.
The apostles taught it.
The early Church proclaimed it.
And every true Christian believed it — until 1909, when a Zionist-ghostwritten footnote Bible started rewiring the minds of the lukewarm.
Don’t believe me?
Let’s ask the actual Church Fathers — the men who bled and died for the faith.
Justin Martyr (155 AD):
“For the true spiritual Israel… are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ.”
— Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. 11
Irenaeus (180 AD):
“They who believe in Him and follow His word… are the true Israel.” — Against Heresies, Book 4
Tertullian (c. 200 AD):
“The Jews had formerly been near to God, but having departed from Him, they are now very far off... We who were far off have begun to be made nigh.” — Against Marcion, Book 3, Ch. 23
Cyprian of Carthage (250 AD):
“We Christians are the true people of God, though the Jews once were... the Jews, according to the flesh, were cast off.” — Treatises of Cyprian, Treatise 12, Book 1
Origen (248 AD):
“We say that they [the Jews] were rejected... when the Church of the living God was built, the shadow of the letter passed away, and the light of the Spirit rose.” — Against Celsus, Book 3, Ch. 28
Eusebius of Caesarea (325 AD):
“The promises of the covenants made to Israel are now fulfilled in us [the Church]... The Hebrews have fallen from the grace of God.” — Proof of the Gospel, Book 1, Ch. 4
^ Bullet proof and undeniable.
So no — they didn’t worship dirt.
They didn’t bow to man-made flags.
And they sure as hell didn’t call a Christ-rejecting state in the Middle East - “God’s chosen people.”
That delusion came later — wrapped in Scofield leather, funded by Zionist bankers, and swallowed by a Church asleep at the wheel.
The apostles knew it.
The Church Fathers thundered it.
The Scriptures declare it.
THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ISRAEL.
There is no other covenant.
There is no other seed.
There is no other people of God — outside of Christ.
Understand this — and understand it well.
Not one Apostle.
Not one Early Church Father.
Not Peter. Not Paul.
Not Ignatius, not Polycarp, not Irenaeus, not Justin Martyr, not Tertullian, not Origen, not Cyprian, not Athanasius, not Eusebius —
None of them believed the lie you’ve been spoon-fed by modern apostates.
They would look at the Rothschild/UN-created abomination in the Middle East —
that Christ-rejecting state drenched in unbelief —
and call it what it is:
Blasphemy.
An affront to God.
A satanic rebellion to seize what God never gave.
A geopolitical idol wrapped in prophecy and baptized in blood.
You’ve been deceived — not by the Word, but by the Dragon.
You’ve traded the Gospel of Christ for a counterfeit covenant.
You bow to a nation that crucified your Lord, then call it holy.
You exalt a people who reject the Son, then dare to call them “chosen.”
Tell me —
How can one be chosen while rejecting the Chooser?
How can one inherit the promise while denying the Promised One?
The veil was torn at Calvary —
and yet here you are, frantically sewing it back together
with Scofield’s thread and Zionist gold.
You’ve honored a nation of dirt over a Kingdom not of this world.
You’ve exalted flesh and flags over the Cross of Christ.
You’ve carved a new golden calf — and called it “Israel.”
But the true Israel?
The everlasting covenant?
The heirs of Abraham?
They are in Christ. Alone.
The Body of Christ is Israel - There is no other.
Not DNA. Not dirt. Not a political regime flying a cursed star God never gave David.
Wake up.
The veil is torn.
Stop stitching it back together
with Zionist lies from the Pit of Hell.
Return to the Gospel.
Return to the Christ who fulfilled the promise.
And leave behind the apostasy that dares to crown His enemies as saints.
If you don’t know that simple truth—
you’re still under the veil.
And you're not following the Gospel.
You are deceived.
“They are not all Israel, which are of Israel... That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
— Romans 9:6–8
“If ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29
“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:28
This isn’t up for debate.
This is the Gospel.
The apostles taught it.
The early Church proclaimed it.
And every true Christian believed it — until 1909, when a Zionist-ghostwritten footnote Bible started rewiring the minds of the lukewarm.
Don’t believe me?
Let’s ask the actual Church Fathers — the men who bled and died for the faith.
Justin Martyr (155 AD):
“For the true spiritual Israel… are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ.”
— Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. 11
Irenaeus (180 AD):
“They who believe in Him and follow His word… are the true Israel.” — Against Heresies, Book 4
Tertullian (c. 200 AD):
“The Jews had formerly been near to God, but having departed from Him, they are now very far off... We who were far off have begun to be made nigh.” — Against Marcion, Book 3, Ch. 23
Cyprian of Carthage (250 AD):
“We Christians are the true people of God, though the Jews once were... the Jews, according to the flesh, were cast off.” — Treatises of Cyprian, Treatise 12, Book 1
Origen (248 AD):
“We say that they [the Jews] were rejected... when the Church of the living God was built, the shadow of the letter passed away, and the light of the Spirit rose.” — Against Celsus, Book 3, Ch. 28
Eusebius of Caesarea (325 AD):
“The promises of the covenants made to Israel are now fulfilled in us [the Church]... The Hebrews have fallen from the grace of God.” — Proof of the Gospel, Book 1, Ch. 4
^ Bullet proof and undeniable.
So no — they didn’t worship dirt.
They didn’t bow to man-made flags.
And they sure as hell didn’t call a Christ-rejecting state in the Middle East - “God’s chosen people.”
That delusion came later — wrapped in Scofield leather, funded by Zionist bankers, and swallowed by a Church asleep at the wheel.
The apostles knew it.
The Church Fathers thundered it.
The Scriptures declare it.
THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ISRAEL.
There is no other covenant.
There is no other seed.
There is no other people of God — outside of Christ.
Understand this — and understand it well.
Not one Apostle.
Not one Early Church Father.
Not Peter. Not Paul.
Not Ignatius, not Polycarp, not Irenaeus, not Justin Martyr, not Tertullian, not Origen, not Cyprian, not Athanasius, not Eusebius —
None of them believed the lie you’ve been spoon-fed by modern apostates.
They would look at the Rothschild/UN-created abomination in the Middle East —
that Christ-rejecting state drenched in unbelief —
and call it what it is:
Blasphemy.
An affront to God.
A satanic rebellion to seize what God never gave.
A geopolitical idol wrapped in prophecy and baptized in blood.
You’ve been deceived — not by the Word, but by the Dragon.
You’ve traded the Gospel of Christ for a counterfeit covenant.
You bow to a nation that crucified your Lord, then call it holy.
You exalt a people who reject the Son, then dare to call them “chosen.”
Tell me —
How can one be chosen while rejecting the Chooser?
How can one inherit the promise while denying the Promised One?
The veil was torn at Calvary —
and yet here you are, frantically sewing it back together
with Scofield’s thread and Zionist gold.
You’ve honored a nation of dirt over a Kingdom not of this world.
You’ve exalted flesh and flags over the Cross of Christ.
You’ve carved a new golden calf — and called it “Israel.”
But the true Israel?
The everlasting covenant?
The heirs of Abraham?
They are in Christ. Alone.
The Body of Christ is Israel - There is no other.
Not DNA. Not dirt. Not a political regime flying a cursed star God never gave David.
Wake up.
The veil is torn.
Stop stitching it back together
with Zionist lies from the Pit of Hell.
Return to the Gospel.
Return to the Christ who fulfilled the promise.
And leave behind the apostasy that dares to crown His enemies as saints.
The Light
Well-Known Member
From this end it is like talking to the blind that want to tell me what they see.
Please feel free to point out any words of Christ that I have twisted. I await chapter and verse and how I have twisted it.
What you are saying is you did no RE-search. You just gobbled up what was regurgitated to you without even checking.
Here is 2 minutes of truth.
The flood took the ark away. Those that are left had no ark.
Pre trib has one thing wrong for sure. They are missing the second rapture which occurs at the 6th seal.
You take confidence that the man of sin will be revealed before the rapture. The truth is the man of sin will be revealed before the second rapture.
The Lord comes many times and you can only find one more.
There may not be a second chance, but there is a rapture of the Church before the tribulation. Best watch and be ready as we have been instructed.
Frankly you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Your views come from those that spiritualized scripture instead of accepting the written Word of God.
You view has the Church going through the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.
1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
I take the Word of God literally. Feel free to show me anywhere I am butchering scripture.
Don't just throw out the blanket as a general statement that covers all without specifics. Show me specifically where I have butchered scripture?
Paul taught there are two raptures. John taught there are two raptures. Jesus taught there are two raptures.
You speak without RE-search. You might do your own research instead of believing what you have been told.
I am watching and ready as instructed.
Those that have taught spiritualize scripture instead of taking it literally.
Try reading what the Word says and put aside what you have been taught.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Oh, I get it.
Who taught you this nonsense. You need RE-search without the goggles.
It was prophesied and it happened. FACT. You can tell God that it didn't happen if you want. I'm going to believe what is written.
We are talking 1800 years, not a hundred years, not 200 years. God kept a people to himself.
And the blind tell me what they see..........................
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
There are TWO Israels
a.) the ISRAEL Born of GOD = Spiritual Seed of Christ as Prophesied thru Abraham
b.) the Israel of the flesh seed of Abraham
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Was gone all day and did a 7 mile hike thru rocky terrain
At 64 with Lymes i am hurting and going to bed = lift me UP in prayer and petition for healing
Shalom and Good Night my Brother in Christ
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Was gone all day and did a 7 mile hike thru rocky terrain
At 64 with Lymes i am hurting and going to bed = lift me UP in prayer and petition for healing
Shalom and Good Night my Brother in Christ
