Churches are failing as we all know.

[TigersPaw]

who is the church?

Its is those making representation of Christ path. Not the following of Christ.
They are money mills, for gains and mismanaging of funds.
In reality there is great hypocrisy in organized religion today.
That was not present 200 years ago.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Churches are failing as we all know. When it comes to Christianity why are churches the last 10 years failing?

​

There are several factors contributing to the struggles and decline of many churches over the past decade. While each church and community is unique, common themes emerge across regions and denominations. Here are some of the key reasons why churches have been facing challenges recently, particularly in the Western world:​

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1. Cultural Shifts and Secularization​

• Secularism: Many societies have become more secular, and there is often a cultural emphasis on individualism and self-reliance. For some, Christianity is viewed as outdated or irrelevant, making it challenging for churches to attract and retain members.
• Distrust of Institutions: Trust in institutions, including the church, has declined, especially among younger generations. Scandals, hypocrisy, or financial mismanagement in some high-profile churches have further damaged public trust.
• Moral Relativism: With increasing emphasis on moral relativism and "live your truth" mentalities, traditional Christian teachings on absolute truth, morality, and sin are often in direct contrast to cultural norms, making them less appealing to broader audiences.

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2. Generational Differences and Youth Disengagement​

• Failure to Engage Younger Generations: Many churches struggle to connect with Millennials and Generation Z. Some of these younger members feel the church hasn’t addressed their questions, social concerns, or interests.
• Relevance: Younger generations often seek authenticity and transparency, and if church services or teachings don’t resonate or feel relevant, they may drift away in search of community or purpose elsewhere.
• Rigid Traditions: Churches that are unwilling to adapt traditions or methods (without compromising core beliefs) can feel unapproachable or irrelevant to those unfamiliar with church culture or rituals.

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3. Internal Division and Lack of Unity​

• Political and Social Divisions: Political polarization has crept into many churches, creating divides over social and moral issues. When churches emphasize political agendas or specific viewpoints, it can lead to disunity and even alienation within congregations.
• Doctrinal Disagreements: Conflicts over doctrinal interpretations or social issues have split congregations and even denominations. This can weaken the church’s influence and credibility.
• Loss of Focus on Core Mission: When churches focus more on external controversies than on discipleship, worship, and community, it can cause members to feel disconnected from the primary mission of the church.

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4. Shifts in Attendance Patterns and Commitment​

• Less Regular Attendance: Many people now attend church sporadically rather than every week. This shift in attendance patterns has impacted community cohesion and financial stability.
• Competing Priorities: With busy schedules, family commitments, sports, and other activities, regular church attendance can take a back seat. Additionally, some people find spiritual fulfillment through other means, like online sermons, podcasts, or self-guided studies.
• Online Options and “Church Shopping”: The accessibility of online worship, particularly post-pandemic, has led some to engage less in traditional church settings. Others may “church shop,” moving from one church to another without forming long-term commitments.

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5. Failure to Address Relevant Issues and Provide Practical Guidance​

• Avoidance of Tough Topics: Some churches may avoid addressing pressing social issues, personal struggles, or complex questions about faith. This can lead to members feeling that the church isn’t meeting their real-life needs.
• Lack of Practical Application: Churches that focus solely on doctrine without teaching its practical application may struggle to engage members, who seek guidance for day-to-day life challenges and spiritual growth.
• Outdated Approaches: If preaching styles, outreach methods, or service structures haven’t adapted to contemporary needs and communication styles, some people may find them irrelevant or unappealing.

​

6. Leadership Failures and Scandals​

• High-Profile Scandals: Unfortunately, instances of moral failure, financial misconduct, and abuse within churches have deeply affected public perception. These failures cause disillusionment, and hurt, and damage trust.
• Lack of Relatable Leadership: In some cases, church leadership can appear out of touch with the realities of congregants’ lives, failing to provide relatable or empathetic guidance.
• Poor Discipleship and Leadership Training: Churches that don’t invest in developing strong, servant-hearted leaders and disciples often struggle to maintain growth and spiritual depth within their communities.

​

7. Consumer Mentality and Shallow Engagement​

• Consumerism: Many approach church with a consumer mindset, expecting it to meet their preferences rather than approaching it with a commitment to serve and grow. If expectations aren’t met, they may leave or look for another church.
• Shallow Engagement: In some cases, churches focus on entertainment or surface-level experiences rather than deep spiritual growth. This can attract people initially but often fails to create lasting commitment and spiritual maturity.
• Overemphasis on Attractional Models: When churches focus heavily on programs and entertainment, they may draw crowds but struggle to build a strong, committed community of believers focused on discipleship.

​

Moving Forward: What Can Churches Do?​

To address these challenges and remain effective in their mission, churches can:​

1. Reconnect with the Core Message: Churches that focus on the core message of the Gospel—God’s love, grace, and truth—can cut through cultural noise and offer something unique, transcendent, and transformational.
2. Prioritize Authentic Community and Discipleship: Building a strong community and offering genuine discipleship can meet the spiritual hunger that people still feel but may not find in other social groups or online.
3. Engage with Younger Generations: Listening to younger generations, addressing their questions, and involving them in meaningful ways within the church can create a lasting impact and inspire long-term commitment.
4. Model Integrity and Transparency: Churches that demonstrate honesty, humility, and openness can rebuild trust and credibility. When leaders acknowledge mistakes and approach ministry with a servant’s heart, it resonates with people’s desire for authenticity.
5. Equip Members for Real-Life Application: By providing practical, applicable guidance, churches can help believers navigate the complexities of modern life with a faith that is relevant and grounded in biblical truth.
6. Embrace Flexibility Without Compromising Doctrine: While it’s important to adapt to changing times, churches can do so without compromising their beliefs. Finding creative ways to worship, connect, and serve can allow the church to meet people where they are.
7. Cultivate Spiritual Depth: By emphasizing a relationship with Christ over ritual and personal transformation over entertainment, churches can create a spiritually fulfilling experience that draws people back to their faith and each other.

Though churches face many challenges, these can also be opportunities for renewal and growth. Addressing these issues with grace, courage, and adaptability can help churches thrive and continue to make a positive impact. These are opinion based on my life long experience with God. Your views may vary, please share what you think.​

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@TigersPaw, you have given us a lot of information to chew on. An excellent analysis!

 

[Ezra]

the church body of christ is not failing.. mankind is

 

[amigo de christo]

the church body of christ is not failing.. mankind is

The true church body of Christ is not failing . But many within the common realm known as christendom
cast out these true sheep and label them judgmental , haters who know not God or his love .
But tis they who know NOT GOD OR HIS LOVE .

 

[amigo de christo]

the church body of christ is not failing.. mankind is

Many follow a real broad love that has made the path to GOD HIGHLY BROAD .
many have the love of the world but now beleive it to be the LOVE of GOD .
INFILTRATION came BIG TIME
upon many . Ezra , TIME TO MAN THE WALLS
time to do all to also get this people back into bibles to learn for themselves .
And whatever anyone do , DO NOT partake in any way , support in any way
go with the flow in any way , OF INTERFAITH COMMON GROUND INTERRELIGIOUS
cause bud ITS OF ANTI CHRIST and many anti christ do lead this people into a death trap of a delusion .

 

[Ezra]

Many follow a real broad love that has made the path to GOD HIGHLY BROAD .
many have the love of the world but now beleive it to be the LOVE of GOD .
INFILTRATION came BIG TIME
upon many . Ezra , TIME TO MAN THE WALLS
time to do all to also get this people back into bibles to learn for themselves .
And whatever anyone do , DO NOT partake in any way , support in any way
go with the flow in any way , OF INTERFAITH COMMON GROUND INTERRELIGIOUS
cause bud ITS OF ANTI CHRIST and many anti christ do lead this people into a death trap of a delusion .

i am pretty much a loaner the church i pastor you come be in fellowship with us.. your part of us... there are certain standards i follow.. first off it has to be of God . next scripture has to back it up a clear cut thus saith the Lord.. im not interested in can you or you can not lose it.. its a know so salvation . you either are or are not.. living in willful sin saying what i want doing what i want is not of God.
i am careful on who i listen to for outside sources . i really like jay vernon mcgee .. i do find him pretty close to truth..

each one of us has enough oil to take care of us.. we either are of the 5 wise or the 5 foolish .its odd you mention the antichrist ..IMHO he will have no trouble ushering in his polices .. so many are so fickle and so open minded. their brain falls out.

the apostle paul wrote not to be ignorant of the devils devices lest satan take advantage of us.. he uses mind games.. Wednesday night and Thursday i had intense war fare . i like what wrote in 1 corithians 15 be ye steadfast and unmoveable doing the work of the Lord as our labour is not in vain. if we will be about our fathers business we will be ok.

last he wrote not to be children tossed to and fro

Ephesians 4:14-16
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

everyone has a doctrine some thus saith gma gpa or mom dad or the pastor.. get it for your self



​

 

[Aunty Jane]

i am pretty much a loaner the church i pastor you come be in fellowship with us.. your part of us... there are certain standards i follow..

The First problem I see there is that no one can be a “loner” in Christianity…in a church that is isolated from other believers who live a distance away from you, in another town, another state, or even in another country, because Christianity is not a local church in just one place on earth…..it is a global brotherhood preaching a global message to a global community. (Matt 24:14)…..

However if you meant “loaner” as in borrowing your beliefs by shopping in the great celestial supermarket and putting selected and favored beliefs in your trolly, that come from outside of your own church.…well, that too is fraught with danger. Things can sound good, but counterfeits are designed to look authentic.

first off it has to be of God .

Absolutely…and it has to start with Genesis and end in Revelation, understanding that everything in between is a learning curve….what God is telling us as the “whole story”…not just selected bits of it where we fill in the blanks.

next scripture has to back it up a clear cut thus saith the Lord..

Another absolute….if it’s not in the Bible, it has no place in our belief system. Most people have no idea that the foundational beliefs taught in Christendom find no basis in Scripture at all. They were introduced by Roman Catholicism and carried over into all the ‘daughters’ who left home, to establish their own hierarchies. Christendom is a divided mess…not something planted by Jesus and his apostles at all….not even close.

im not interested in can you or you can not lose it.. its a know so salvation . you either are or are not.. living in willful sin saying what i want doing what i want is not of God.

Salvation is something we hope for…but not a given….or something we can take for granted….even Paul says that until we actually attain it, it remains a hope. (Phil 3:12-14) We can lose that hope if we lose focus on what Christ taught, thinking that we are saved no matter what. (2 Peter 2:20-22) We must “endure to the end“ in holding to Christ’s teachings. (Matt 24:13)

i am careful on who i listen to for outside sources . i really like jay vernon mcgee .. i do find him pretty close to truth..

We should all be careful who we listen to, as Bible scholars and teachers are a dime a dozen out there in Internet land….but “the truth” is buried under so much falsehood, that it’s like trying to find a diamond in a pile of broken glass…..we don’t need to know what the glass looks like, but through thorough Bible study, we have to know what the diamond looks like.
And we have the assurance that no one can come to the son, without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65)

 

[Ezra]

The First problem I see there is that no one can be a “loner” in Christianity…in a church that is isolated from other believers who live a distance away from you, in another town, another state, or even in another country, because Christianity is not a local church in just one place on earth…..it is a global brotherhood preaching a global message to a global community. (Matt 24:14)…..

However if you meant “loaner” as in borrowing your beliefs by shopping in the great celestial supermarket and putting selected and favored beliefs in your trolly, that come from outside of your own church.…well, that too is fraught with danger. Things can sound good, but counterfeits are designed to look authentic.

when i say I am a loaner thats exactly what i mean... may i ask how long you been preaching ? your just a tad bit out of your league have you ever pastored ? most likely NOT

 

[Marvelloustime]

Many follow a real broad love that has made the path to GOD HIGHLY BROAD .
many have the love of the world but now beleive it to be the LOVE of GOD .
INFILTRATION came BIG TIME
upon many . Ezra , TIME TO MAN THE WALLS
time to do all to also get this people back into bibles to learn for themselves .
And whatever anyone do , DO NOT partake in any way , support in any way
go with the flow in any way , OF INTERFAITH COMMON GROUND INTERRELIGIOUS
cause bud ITS OF ANTI CHRIST and many anti christ do lead this people into a death trap of a delusion .

@amigo de christo

 

[Aunty Jane]

when i say I am a loaner thats exactly what i mean...

Loner…or loaner? Which is it? And what exactly do you mean?

may i ask how long you been preaching ?

For over 50 years…how about you?
Preaching to the choir is not preaching….nor is sitting in a building waiting for the sheep to wander in, the way Jesus and his disciples operated. (Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20; Matt 28:18-20)

It’s unbelievers who need the preaching…those in the congregation need teaching.

your just a tad bit out of your league have you ever pastored ? most likely NOT

I have been a preacher and teacher for decades….Bible study is my passion and I relish research….you don’t have to be a pastor to achieve that.…nor do you need a degree in theology.
What credentials or degrees did the apostles have? (Acts 4:13)

I can assure you that I am not “out of my league”….whatever that means…..if you are the pastor of your own church and you are the one who determines what your congregation believes, then you are in trouble. If no one else shares your beliefs outside of your own group, then you disqualify yourself from being a Christian…..true Christianity is a global brotherhood who all subscribe to one truth….”one Lord, one faith, one baptism”. (1 Cor 1:10) This is what God’s spirit does…it unites his people in every nation…it does not divide them.…..Satan, the great counterfeiter does that.

 

[One 2 question]

We are in the end time - the time of the Antichrists and many are following there will be many leading to the last one as we have been told.If you are caught up in that fallen world out there you will not be able to perceive them.The bible tells you all this we are in evil times.Why is everyone ignoring this.At this time you should stick to God only rejecting everything else we have all been warned do you think its a Joke?You should never pledge allegiance to any man in this time or you are in danger of perishing as the bible says.Trust in God not in man.The times are here prepare yourself or be lost.Find God NOW.

Yes, I too have been moved by the Holy Spirit to challenge others to get back to Him. That the Spirit of Christ Jesus has been closed out by the church. He is knocking at its door. As Jesus said, Behold I stand at the door of the church and knock. We have put the Spirit of Christ outside when we get together as the local church. No wonder there isn't the divine life being manifested in and through the members of the church.

Personally I have no interest in the bible being quoted but not lived out. And people attempting to praise God in song in a meeting but after they will talk about anything or anyone but Him.

The one on one discipling of others outside of the meetings is where I've found others grow, become passionate about Christ and His Spirit demonstrate His powerful divine life. It's awesome!

Denominational meetings bore me if I'm being honest. The church lacks the Spirit Jesus sent to build and empower her. I'd say most meetings are man organised and run. There's no need for the Holy Spirit to be involved. In fact, if He were to, things get out of hand, out of control and too unpredictable. Most leaders couldn't cope with that. Actually most congregations wouldn't stand for it either.

Jesus said the Spirit is like the wind. He blows as He wills and He has an agenda. He isn't confused, though He appears to us to be acting randomly and radically. And as a result this Spirit has been misrepresented and misidentified as not the Holy Spirit but an unholy spirit and reject and shut out whenever we get together as the church.

 

[One 2 question]

This is what God’s spirit does…it unites his people in every nation…it does not divide them.…..Satan, the great counterfeiter does that.

Just to clarify, when you use the word 'it' to identify Holy Spirit, is the Holy Spirit to you a thing 'it' or a Person 'He'? I noticed you used the word 'his' as well.

 

[One 2 question]

the church body of christ is not failing.. mankind is

Yes, and the Head of the body went to heaven to sit on His throne at His Father's right. And from there He sent the Holy Spirit to be His body which includes those in whom He dwells.

Isn't the essence of Christ's body His Spirit? Isn't the Holy Spirit like the central nervous system and we form the rest of the body?

 

[One 2 question]

who is the church?

After Father sent Jesus to carry out His will on earth, didn't He send His Holy Spirit to continue to carry out His will? And this Spirit goes around collecting new homes to purchase and live in. These are also known as members of the church, the body of Christ.

 

[Ezra]

..if you are the pastor of your own church and you are the one who determines what your congregation believes, then you are in trouble

i determine nothing in how anyone believes.. i only plant the seed.. you seem to have me all figured...but you dont

 

[Aunty Jane]

Just to clarify, when you use the word 'it' to identify Holy Spirit, is the Holy Spirit to you a thing 'it' or a Person 'He'? I noticed you used the word 'his' as well.

Not until the fourth century C.E. did the teaching that the Holy Spirit was a person and part of the triune “Godhead” become official Catholic church dogma. That means that the Holy Spirit, to Jesus first century Jewish audience, was an “it”, not a “he”.

e.g. In the wilderness after their liberation from Egypt, Moses was finding it difficult because the people were complaining and he was not coping well.

”Then the Lord said to Moses, “Gather for me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and officers over them, and bring them to the tent of meeting, and let them take their stand there with you. And I will come down and talk with you there. And I will take some of the Spirit that is on you and put it on them, and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you may not bear it yourself alone.“ (ESV)

The Hebrew word used there is “rûaḥ” and it means….”wind, breath, mind, spirit”. It was a redistribution of God’s power….not splitting himself up into pieces.

Can you take some of a person and give it to others? Similarly when the disciples received Holy Spirit at Pentecost, it was distributed among 120 of Jesus faithful followers empowering them to perform miracles and speak in foreign languages….again a distribution of power, not the distribution of a person.

Jesus himself was given the power of the Holy Spirit at his baptism, and could thereafter perform miracles.
As a mortal human, he had no miraculous power before then.

The early church “fathers” did not teach that God’s spirit was a “he”.
Justin Martyr of the second century C.E. taught that the holy spirit was an ‘influence or mode of operation of the Deity’. Hippolytus likewise ascribed no personality to the holy spirit.
The Scriptures themselves show that God’s holy spirit is not a person but is the administration of God’s power by which he accomplishes his purpose and executes his will.
It is never called a “ghost” in the Bible, which is a mistranslation of a German word “Geist”, meaning “spirit”.

In studying Greek grammar, we find “he” used when the Holy Spirit is mentioned because it is described as a “helper” (paraklētos)…which according to Strongs, is masculine gender and means….

“summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid….

1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor”.

So Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper” and spoke of this helper as ‘teaching,’ ‘bearing witness,’ ‘giving evidence,’ ‘guiding,’ ‘speaking,’ ‘hearing,’ and ‘receiving.’ In so doing, the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the masculine personal pronoun to that “helper”.….We all know what pronouns are these days don’t we?

So the two Greek words used for God’s “spirit” are “pneuma” and “paraklētos”…..neither of which makes the Holy Spirit a person.
I know that this truth will ruffle some feathers but it is easily verifiable using Christendom’s own resources….but apparently not taught in any theological colleges, for obvious reasons.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

i determine nothing in how anyone believes.. i only plant the seed.. you seem to have me all figured...but you dont

Isn't she one of those JWs or something?

Good luck trying to reason with them

 

[Aunty Jane]

i determine nothing in how anyone believes.. i only plant the seed.. you seem to have me all figured...but you dont

I was going by what you said in your posts…..in your opening statement you said….

“i am pretty much a loaner the church i pastor you come be in fellowship with us.. your part of us... there are certain standards i follow..”

The use of “I” not “we” is telling us something. The mention of being a “loaner” leaves things wide open again…perhaps you meant “loner”, which puts you out on a limb….and puts those under your charge at risk of being misled. No one man should ever be the arbiter of truth.

Prov 11:14….
”Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.” (ESV)

Read your posts again through the eyes of someone who doesn’t know you….this is a public Internet forum.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Isn't she one of those JWs or something?

Good luck trying to reason with them

That made me laugh….”one of those JWs or something” he said with great knowledge and understanding…..a bit like the first century Jews who spoke about Jesus and his disciples that way….why do you think people have trouble ”reasoning” with us?
Why did Jesus and his apostles have trouble reasoning with the Jews, who were entrenched in the teachings of the Pharisees? They couldn’t see past their own centuries old programming either, and expressed the same sentiments as you have in your ignorance.…

Could it be that we see what you do not want to see? Do the scriptures back up what we say? Can you ignore them?
Perhaps the problem is that the boot is on the other foot. You guys are so stuck in the rut that Christendom has created over many centuries, that you don’t see where you are in the big picture either…..?
If people don't wake up, it won’t end well. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

 

[One 2 question]

Not until the fourth century C.E. did the teaching that the Holy Spirit was a person and part of the triune “Godhead” become official Catholic church dogma. That means that the Holy Spirit, to Jesus first century Jewish audience, was an “it”, not a “he”.

e.g. In the wilderness after their liberation from Egypt, Moses was finding it difficult because the people were complaining and he was not coping well.

”Then the Lord said to Moses, “Gather for me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and officers over them, and bring them to the tent of meeting, and let them take their stand there with you. And I will come down and talk with you there. And I will take some of the Spirit that is on you and put it on them, and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you may not bear it yourself alone.“ (ESV)

The Hebrew word used there is “rûaḥ” and it means….”wind, breath, mind, spirit”. It was a redistribution of God’s power….not splitting himself up into pieces.

Can you take some of a person and give it to others? Similarly when the disciples received Holy Spirit at Pentecost, it was distributed among 120 of Jesus faithful followers empowering them to perform miracles and speak in foreign languages….again a distribution of power, not the distribution of a person.

Jesus himself was given the power of the Holy Spirit at his baptism, and could thereafter perform miracles.
As a mortal human, he had no miraculous power before then.

The early church “fathers” did not teach that God’s spirit was a “he”.
Justin Martyr of the second century C.E. taught that the holy spirit was an ‘influence or mode of operation of the Deity’. Hippolytus likewise ascribed no personality to the holy spirit.
The Scriptures themselves show that God’s holy spirit is not a person but is the administration of God’s power by which he accomplishes his purpose and executes his will.
It is never called a “ghost” in the Bible, which is a mistranslation of a German word “Geist”, meaning “spirit”.

In studying Greek grammar, we find “he” used when the Holy Spirit is mentioned because it is described as a “helper” (paraklētos)…which according to Strongs, is masculine gender and means….

“summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid….

1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor”.

So Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper” and spoke of this helper as ‘teaching,’ ‘bearing witness,’ ‘giving evidence,’ ‘guiding,’ ‘speaking,’ ‘hearing,’ and ‘receiving.’ In so doing, the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the masculine personal pronoun to that “helper”.….We all know what pronouns are these days don’t we?

So the two Greek words used for God’s “spirit” are “pneuma” and “paraklētos”…..neither of which makes the Holy Spirit a person.
I know that this truth will ruffle some feathers but it is easily verifiable using Christendom’s own resources….but apparently not taught in any theological colleges, for obvious reasons.

Thanks for that information. I appreciate it. I guess one documented statement may shed another light.
Eph 4:30 grieve the Holy Spirit
lupeō

loo-peh'-o

From G3077; to distress; reflexively or passively to be sad: - cause grief, grieve, be in heaviness, (be) sorrow (-ful), be (make) sorry.

A person has emotions.