Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Eternally Grateful]

I didn't call anyone any of those things. Please read I wrote again. A persons ideas can and in this care are nonsensical stupid and ridiculous. They are also behaving pompously and with buffoonery. If they want to suspend me they can. It doesn't change their behavior.

Where did I say faith wasnt necessary? Copy and paste my words.

Dude you are to sensitive. Read what I said

You said faith plus works

I just corrected you and said faith

We are free not to work. I NEVER said works save anyone.

Read your words . You say it almost every post

This is why I hold you people in such low regard. Now you either arent capable of reading what I actually wrote or you don't care what I actually wriote

That’s why I hate these conversations. People say stuff then deny they say it. Again you say it every post

. The corner I can excuse because your be limited by conditions that maybe you don't control. If if the latter then you aren't worthy of any respect whatsoever. So far I'm leaning toward the latter with nyou

I can’t respect anyone who says something then denies it

Your not helping yourself your new here and all you have done is thrown silly accusations around

Again read what you write. You say you deny works. But you preach works

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Being a child of God is not a license to sin.

He is using all the legalistic key words just like those before him

 

[nedsk]

Have you ever read the rules of this forum? One states:

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."

In one short post, you call a fellow member, or what he writes, "nonsensical," "stupid," "ridiculous," "pompousness," and "buffoonery."

I didn't call anyone any of those things. Please read I wrote again. A persons ideas can and in this care are nonsensical stupid and ridiculous. They are also behaving pompously and with buffoonery. If they want to suspend me they can. It doesn't change their behavior.

 

[nedsk]

Dude you are to sensitive. Read what I said

You said faith plus works

I just corrected you and said faith

Read your words . You say it almost every post

That’s why I hate these conversations. People say stuff then deny they say it. Again you say it every post

I can’t respect anyone who says something then denies it

Your not helping yourself your new here and all you have done is thrown silly accusations around

Again read what you write. You say you deny works. But you preach works

It is faith plus works. Do you people not understand what sufficient means? Go look it up and get back to me.

 

[Kokyu]

works is evidence of salvation, but works with the wrong heart is worthless, but works is very important, Jesus spoke about works to all 7 churches in revelation, and said if they did not repent and do the works they first did he would remove their lampstand, it could be made a case that a lampstand represent salvation, Jesus is very concerned about our works, every single church he spoke to he started with I know your works, if he is so concerned with our works we better be also, and not works only but the why behind them, because works with out love is nothing. far to many trying to discourage works, when Jesus Jesus says works is what makes one worthy to eat from the tree of life, works is what keeps ones name from being blotted our from the book of life, yes Jesus said all these thing to his church,

so you better re think your attitude towards works, it does not save us, it does not pay the penalty for sin only Jesus blood does that, but it is evidence of our salvation, that we have received grace, but if we do not continue in them we may very well be blotted out from the book of life,

If your good works - or the lack of them - have the power to keep you saved (i.e. - in the Book of Life) or not, then you are the one, in the end, who saves you. It's what you do that secures your salvation, right? This is what you seem to be saying in the quotation above: Jesus saves you but your salvation remains yours only so long as you can keep it (by your good works). If I take this view, I am making myself a co-Savior with Jesus Christ. This necessarily diminishes Jesus and what he did on the cross and magnifies and elevates me to a place of parity with him. This is blasphemy, as far as I can see.

Yes, the truly born-again person naturally produces the "fruit" of redemption. But what is natural to being a Spirit-indwelt child of God is not therefore necessary. It is natural for an apple tree to bear apples but doing so is not necessary to it being an apple tree. There are all sorts of reasons why an apple tree might not bear apples, but none of them undo the fundamental nature of the apple tree.

So, too, the Christian person. It is the natural outworking of their faith in Christ, of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, that they would act in reflection of that faith (Ja. 2:14-26), the Person of the Holy Spirit manifesting himself in and through them (Ga. 5:22-23; 2 Co. 3:18). But all sorts of things may interfere with this happening - bad teachers/teaching, tragedy, serious injury or illness, spiritual immaturity, deeply entrenched "besetting sin," etc. It doesn't follow, though, that when these hindrances to good works stifle fruit-bearing, the fundamental "new creature in Christ" nature given at conversion is dissolved. Like the apple tree, the absence of fruit in the life of the believer doesn't undo their basic, Spirit-given nature.

Too often, the legalistic, fear-mongering, grace-denying, salvation-lost/works-salvation crowd want to paint the OSAS believer as an antinomian, a "live like the devil because I'm under God's forgiveness and grace" type of person when, in my fifty years of experience in the Church, the OSAS believer lives a far holier, more Christ-centered, love-filled, joyful life than the fearful salvation-lost believer does. It is a generally false, Boogey Man tactic, that the salvation-lost person puts forward when they cast the question of the eternal security of salvation in the false dichotomy of "be afraid for your salvation and so obey God," or "be confident in the security of your salvation and live in unrestrained sin." There is another option which is that the person confident that their eternal life is actually eternal, as secure as God's acceptance of Christ is secure in whom every born-again person stands, is free to live in love, joy and peace with God, drawing closer to their loving, gracious, gentle heavenly Father all the time. Instead of the dangerous divine Warden looming over them with the threat of hell should they "cross the line," the believer confident in the permanency of their eternal salvation walks joyfully with their Maker in the power of the Holy Spirit and so grows ever-more holy, ever-more Christ-like as the days pass.

It simply doesn't follow, then - certainly not necessarily - that a born-again person who is sure of their eternal membership in God's family will go off into a life of unrestrained evil. This hasn't been my personal experience, nor has it been what I've observed in the lives of other believers who hold to OSAS, nor is it what I see taught or illustrated in God's word. This doesn't mean that false brethren, "tares," aren't in both camps of thought on the security of one's salvation, living in an immoral "free grace" way on the one side, or in hypocritical, fearful legalism on the other. And so, we can't determine the truth of whether or not our salvation is truly eternal on the basis of those in either camp who openly, or in secret, live in contradiction to what the Bible describes as normal Christian living. Instead, I look at what Scripture actually says, and when I do, a salvation-lost doctrine just doesn't appear.

 

[nedsk]

If your good works - or the lack of them - have the power to keep you saved (i.e. - in the Book of Life) or not, then you are the one, in the end, who saves you. It's what you do that secures your salvation, right? This is what you seem to be saying in the quotation above: Jesus saves you but your salvation remains yours only so long as you can keep it (by your good works). If I take this view, I am making myself a co-Savior with Jesus Christ. This necessarily diminishes Jesus and what he did on the cross and magnifies and elevates me to a place of parity with him. This is blasphemy, as far as I can see.

Yes, the truly born-again person naturally produces the "fruit" of redemption. But what is natural to being a Spirit-indwelt child of God is not therefore necessary. It is natural for an apple tree to bear apples but doing so is not necessary to it being an apple tree. There are all sorts of reasons why an apple tree might not bear apples, but none of them undo the fundamental nature of the apple tree.

So, too, the Christian person. It is the natural outworking of their faith in Christ, of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, that they would act in reflection of that faith (Ja. 2:14-26), the Person of the Holy Spirit manifesting himself in and through them (Ga. 5:22-23; 2 Co. 3:18). But all sorts of things may interfere with this happening - bad teachers/teaching, tragedy, serious injury or illness, spiritual immaturity, deeply entrenched "besetting sin," etc. It doesn't follow, though, that when these hindrances to good works stifle fruit-bearing, the fundamental "new creature in Christ" nature given at conversion is dissolved. Like the apple tree, the absence of fruit in the life of the believer doesn't undo their basic, Spirit-given nature.

Too often, the legalistic, fear-mongering, grace-denying, salvation-lost/works-salvation crowd want to paint the OSAS believer as an antinomian, a "live like the devil because I'm under God's forgiveness and grace" type of person when, in my fifty years of experience in the Church, the OSAS believer lives a far holier, more Christ-centered, love-filled, joyful life than the fearful salvation-lost believer does. It is a generally false, Boogey Man tactic, that the salvation-lost person puts forward when they cast the question of the eternal security of salvation in the false dichotomy of "be afraid for your salvation and so obey God," or "be confident in the security of your salvation and live in unrestrained sin." There is another option which is that the person confident that their eternal life is actually eternal, as secure as God's acceptance of Christ is secure in whom every born-again person stands, is free to live in love, joy and peace with God, drawing closer to their loving, gracious, gentle heavenly Father all the time. Instead of the dangerous divine Warden looming over them with the threat of hell should they "cross the line," the believer confident in the permanency of their eternal salvation walks joyfully with their Maker in the power of the Holy Spirit and so grows ever-more holy, ever-more Christ-like as the days pass.

It simply doesn't follow, then - certainly not necessarily - that a born-again person who is sure of their eternal membership in God's family will go off into a life of unrestrained evil. This hasn't been my personal experience, nor has it been what I've observed in the lives of other believers who hold to OSAS, nor is it what I see taught or illustrated in God's word. This doesn't mean that false brethren, "tares," aren't in both camps of thought on the security of one's salvation, living in an immoral "free grace" way on the one side, or in hypocritical, fearful legalism on the other. And so, we can't determine the truth of whether or not our salvation is truly eternal on the basis of those in either camp who openly, or in secret, live in contradiction to what the Bible describes as normal Christian living. Instead, I look at what Scripture actually says, and when I do, a salvation-lost doctrine just doesn't appear.

That first line makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. I suspect you would argue you are saved by faith correct?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I showed that your "spin" was not in keeping with the actual text of Scripture

Actually all you posted your eiesegesis (reading something into a text that isn't there)

Your remarks here do nothing to secure your view or rebut mine

Those blinded by cult teaching wouldn't know due to having been brainwashed by cult doctrine

You are out of your league in claiming some portions of God's Word is not true so fight against the Lord all ye want.

Yes, the truly born-again person naturally produces the "fruit" of redemption. But what is natural to being a Spirit-indwelt child of God is not therefore necessary.

Wow! Amazing! Claiming Jesus is a liar never ends well.

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

I look at what Scripture actually says

And then promptly ignores all the scripture that proves OSAS is not an actual biblical doctrine

 

[Kokyu]

That first line makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. I suspect you would argue you are saved by faith correct?

Well, simply saying it "makes no sense" does not show that it does. My statement may make no sense to you (as opposed to being actually, objectively nonsensical), but it makes very obvious, good sense to me, which is why I wrote it. Can you explain why you think it "makes no sense" to you?

And no, I don't think anyone is saved by their faith. One's faith puts one in position to be saved by the Savior, but does no more than this. There is, after all, only one Savior. As I've written in earlier posts in this thread, if I need a cavity in my tooth fixed, and I believe my dentist can fix my tooth, and I go to his office to get my tooth fixed, my tooth is not, by my faith in my dentist and my journey to his office, fixed. I can believe the dentist can fix my tooth with all my heart and wait for months at his office to get my tooth fixed, but if the dentist doesn't fix my tooth, it doesn't get fixed. So, my belief in the tooth-fixing power of my dentist and my going to him for tooth-repair is not what actually fixes my tooth. Only the dentist actually fixes my tooth. I just receive from him his work on my tooth.

In the same way, my faith in Jesus to fix my sin problem and my going to him for "repair" doesn't save me. Only Jesus can save me; all I can do is receive his saving work.

John 1:4
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 14:6
6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

 

[Kokyu]

Actually all you posted your eiesegesis (reading something into a text that isn't there)

No, I made careful explanation of the relevant passages of Scripture. And so far, you've not actually shown any eisegesis on my part, you've only asserted it. But assertion, by itself, proves nothing.

Those blinded by cult teaching wouldn't know due to having been brainwashed by cult doctrine

You are out of your league in claiming some portions of God's Word is not true so fight against the Lord all ye want.

No, I'm squarely within the actual text and meaning of Scripture. Your ad hominem here does not show otherwise. It's just ugly opinion, nothing more.

Wow! Amazing! Claiming Jesus is a liar never ends well.

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Asked already and well-answered. See my earlier posts.

And then promptly ignores all the scripture that proves OSAS is not an actual biblical doctrine

Strawman. And actually an outright falsehood. See my earlier posts. I've dealt directly and carefully with specific passages of Scripture that saved-and-lost folk have put forward, explaining their meaning and pointing out where saved-and-lost folk have added to, or diverted from, Scripture. How is this ignoring all the Scripture? It obviously isn't, so why, then, do you assert otherwise? It seems to me you're doing here with my posts exactly the sort of thing you're doing with God's word.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Asked already and well-answered. See my earlier posts.

All you provided was subterfuge in denying what the Lord says as being Truth.

Gaslighting is all the eternal security crowd has!

 

[nedsk]

Well, simply saying it "makes no sense" does not show that it does. My statement may make no sense to you (as opposed to being actually, objectively nonsensical), but it makes very obvious, good sense to me, which is why I wrote it. Can you explain why you think it "makes no sense" to you?

And no, I don't think anyone is saved by their faith. One's faith puts one in position to be saved by the Savior, but does no more than this. There is, after all, only one Savior. As I've written in earlier posts in this thread, if I need a cavity in my tooth fixed, and I believe my dentist can fix my tooth, and I go to his office to get my tooth fixed, my tooth is not, by my faith in my dentist and my journey to his office, fixed. I can believe the dentist can fix my tooth with all my heart and wait for months at his office to get my tooth fixed, but if the dentist doesn't fix my tooth, it doesn't get fixed. So, my belief in the tooth-fixing power of my dentist and my going to him for tooth-repair is not what actually fixes my tooth. Only the dentist actually fixes my tooth. I just receive from him his work on my tooth.

In the same way, my faith in Jesus to fix my sin problem and my going to him for "repair" doesn't save me. Only Jesus can save me; all I can do is receive his saving work.

John 1:4
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 14:6
6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

That a great analogy! So what you're saying is, if you have you don't have faith in the dentist and you dont go of the dentist your tooth won't get fixed. So neither is sufficient for getting your tooth fixed. The only way to get your tooth fixed is to have faith in the dentist and to go to the dentist so the dentist can fix your tooth if the dentist is do inclined. One minor problem I see with the apology is the dentists skills don't reply in the patients faith in them. Someone could be brought to the dentist even if they don't believe the dentist could fix their tooth and the dentist could fix the tooth anyway. I think the important point is if you have believe the dentist can fix the tooth you have to go to the dentist to allow him to fix it. Like faith and works they complete the process of salvation. Excellent

 

[Dave Mac]

If your good works - or the lack of them - have the power to keep you saved (i.e. - in the Book of Life) or not, then you are the one, in the end, who saves you. It's what you do that secures your salvation, righ

Revelation 3:5 --The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.​

now the flip side of the passage, would suggest if you do not conquer your name will be blotted out of the book of life, we have responsibility, and Jesus can give salvation to anyone he chooses, he is the one who paid the price for our sin.

 

[Kokyu]

That a great analogy! So what you're saying is, if you have you don't have faith in the dentist and you dont go of the dentist your tooth won't get fixed.

That's right. We could say the same thing about going to the barber to get a haircut, or to a car mechanic to get a vehicle fixed, and so on. Our going to these people for their work doesn't do the work itself, right? My barber cuts my hair for me; I don't go to his shop and then cut my hair myself, right? All I do is receive his hair-cutting work. Same with my car-mechanic.

So neither is sufficient for getting your tooth fixed.

Right. Trusting my dentist can fix my tooth and going to his office for a tooth repair are necessary to having my tooth fixed but they aren't in-and-of themselves sufficient to fix my tooth. Like I said, I could trust my dentist with all the sincerity and depth that I could muster and wait for days or weeks for him to fix my tooth but until he does his tooth-fixing work, my tooth won't get fixed.

One minor problem I see with the apology is the dentists skills don't reply in the patients faith in them. Someone could be brought to the dentist even if they don't believe the dentist could fix their tooth and the dentist could fix the tooth anyway.

Well, no analogy is perfect. I offer the dentist analogy only insofar as it demonstrates how my my faith in my dentist doesn't actually fix my tooth. One could imagine all sorts of peculiar circumstances where the analogy doesn't hold: Maybe there's a gas-main leak outside the office that explodes in the middle of the dentist fixing my tooth and we all get killed. Or maybe the dentist has a heart-attack in the middle of fixing my tooth and my tooth doesn't get properly repaired. And so on. Every analogy can be overstretched in these ways. In respect to the point I was trying to make with the analogy, though, it serves very well.

I think the important point is if you have believe the dentist can fix the tooth you have to go to the dentist to allow him to fix it. Like faith and works they complete the process of salvation. Excellent

I wouldn't say that my faith in my dentist or going to him for a tooth repair completes his work on my tooth. Actually, I'd say the opposite: The dentist completes, or fulfills, my desire to have my tooth fixed. His dental work also concludes my need to have my tooth fixed, my belief my dentist can fix my tooth, and my going to him to have my tooth fixed. In the same way, Jesus fulfills my desire to cleansed of my sin and reconciled to God, by his saving work for me on the cross, concluding the matter of my salvation for me.

If I say that my faith and my going to Jesus for salvation contributes to his salvation of me rather than that I merely receive his saving work of me, then I've put myself into the actual work of my salvation. In other words, I'm saying that I'm doing some of the dental work for my dentist. I don't see that God's word anywhere says this is even possible.

Romans 5:6-8
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Titus 3:5-7
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Kokyu]

Revelation 3:5 --The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.​

now the flip side of the passage, would suggest if you do not conquer your name will be blotted out of the book of life, we have responsibility, and Jesus can give salvation to anyone he chooses, he is the one who paid the price for our sin.

And how does any believer "conquer"? How do they overcome the World, the Flesh and the devil?

Romans 8:37
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

John 16:33
33 "These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."

1 John 4:4
4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.

We can only work out what God has first worked into us. We are simply conduits through whom God expresses Himself.

Philippians 2:12-13
12 ...work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 4:6-10
6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;
8 we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;
9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
10 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

 

[nedsk]

That's right. We could say the same thing about going to the barber to get a haircut, or to a car mechanic to get a vehicle fixed, and so on. Our going to these people for their work doesn't do the work itself, right? My barber cuts my hair for me; I don't go to his shop and then cut my hair myself, right? All I do is receive his hair-cutting work. Same with my car-mechanic.



Right. Trusting my dentist can fix my tooth and going to his office for a tooth repair are necessary to having my tooth fixed but they aren't in-and-of themselves sufficient to fix my tooth. Like I said, I could trust my dentist with all the sincerity and depth that I could muster and wait for days or weeks for him to fix my tooth but until he does his tooth-fixing work, my tooth won't get fixed.



Well, no analogy is perfect. I offer the dentist analogy only insofar as it demonstrates how my my faith in my dentist doesn't actually fix my tooth. One could imagine all sorts of peculiar circumstances where the analogy doesn't hold: Maybe there's a gas-main leak outside the office that explodes in the middle of the dentist fixing my tooth and we all get killed. Or maybe the dentist has a heart-attack in the middle of fixing my tooth and my tooth doesn't get properly repaired. And so on. Every analogy can be overstretched in these ways. In respect to the point I was trying to make with the analogy, though, it serves very well.



I wouldn't say that my faith in my dentist or going to him for a tooth repair completes his work on my tooth. Actually, I'd say the opposite: The dentist completes, or fulfills, my desire to have my tooth fixed. His dental work also concludes my need to have my tooth fixed, my belief my dentist can fix my tooth, and my going to him to have my tooth fixed. In the same way, Jesus fulfills my desire to cleansed of my sin and reconciled to God, by his saving work for me on the cross, concluding the matter of my salvation for me.

If I say that my faith and my going to Jesus for salvation contributes to his salvation of me rather than that I merely receive his saving work of me, then I've put myself into the actual work of my salvation. In other words, I'm saying that I'm doing some of the dental work for my dentist. I don't see that God's word anywhere says this is even possible.

Romans 5:6-8
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Titus 3:5-7
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Of course having faith in your dentist and going to him to get your tooth fixed completes the process. How else would it happen? God could have made it so Jesus dying on the cross saved everyone regardless of faith or works but that's now how it works is it? Both are necessary as alone neither is sufficient.

 

[Titus]

If your good works - or the lack of them - have the power to keep you saved (i.e. - in the Book of Life) or not, then you are the one, in the end, who saves you. It's what you do that secures your salvation, right? This is what you seem to be saying in the quotation above: Jesus saves you but your salvation remains yours only so long as you can keep it (by your good works). If I take this view, I am making myself a co-Savior with Jesus Christ. This necessarily diminishes Jesus and what he did on the cross and magnifies and elevates me to a place of parity with him. This is blasphemy, as far as I can see

Good works do not cancel out Gods grace.
The good works we do is IN Gods grace.
Gods grace instructs us to do good works.

We are only saved when our sins are covered by Gods grace.
Disobeying God with no intention of repenting, leaves us seperated from Gods grace,

Titus 2:11-12,
- for the  grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
teaching us(Gods grace teaches us to work the commandments of God)
- teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present age

Gods grace teaches us how we must live.
By not following the teachings found in Gods grace we are no longer under grace!!!

Galatians 5:4,
- Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye have fallen from grace
These Jewish converts to Christ have fallen from Grace because they are not following the new testament law teachings(doctrine) of Christ. Instead they have left the faith attempting to be justified by going back into keeping the old testament law of Moses.
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one anothers burdens and so fullfil(obey) the law of Christ

The good works we do saves not of themselves but because they are the instruction from God on how to be saved. Gods grace is everything He has done for us to bring about our salvation.
Teaching us to believe which is something we do, saves not of itself but because it is in Gods plan for saving man.
This plan is Grace based.
Gods grace is conditional.
Conditioned upon our Faith and obedience in following His instruction also known as His gospel.

Acts 2:40,
- and with many other words did he testify and exhort saying save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

[Kokyu]

All you provided was subterfuge in denying what the Lord says as being Truth.

Gaslighting is all the eternal security crowd has!

Again, this is just more unfounded assertion - opinion, actually. There's no concrete proof you've managed to offer that truly shows "subterfuge" in my handling of God's word, only your own prejudiced opinion about the conclusions I've drawn from it. But your opinion doesn't do anything to establish your view or rebut mine. It's just opinion.

If you have more than your assumption that your scriptural proof-texts show your view to be correct, then lay out your rationale from the text (and context) itself. So far, in every instance where you've tried to do this, what you do is make an addition to, or alteration of, Scripture to fit your view and then give a blustering storm of bald assertions that its obvious that you're additions and alterations are correct. But neither assumptions nor aggressive assertions that you're right do anything to actually support or show that you are.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is faith plus works. Do you people not understand what sufficient means? Go look it up and get back to me.

See you said you do not teach works and here you teach works I rest my case. Nothing more needs said

 

[amigo de christo]

Trivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .

 

[amigo de christo]

See you said you do not teach works and here you teach works I rest my case. Nothing more needs said

Trivia question time .
CAN GOD LIE
thus can CHRIST LIE .
NO .
IS every word JESUS spoke truth . YES .
I suggest we use all HIS WORDS
SO allow me to write a statement
and then any can answer as to why its wrong or right to make such a statement .
HERE is the statement i make to all .
YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved and ye must continue in HIM to the end .
Now anyone wanna tell me what is wrong or right about that statement .