Still the same

[Matthias]

You sure are strange.

Just saw this. Jewish Christianity is strange to most people - the church quickly moved away from it early in the 2nd century, due to the influx and influence of gentiles - and the Jewish Roots movement (which I consider to be disastrous) has made it worse than strange.

 

[MatthewG]

Just saw this. Jewish Christianity is strange to most people - the church quickly moved away from it early in the 2nd century, due to the influx and influence of gentiles - and the Jewish Roots movement (which I consider to be disastrous) has made it worse than strange.

Abraham would be far more stranger. I promise that. Please don't take it to heart.


You are strange in the way you wanna communicate. I don't believe in your whole religion you got going on for yourself.

 

[Matthias]

Abraham would be far more stranger. I promise that.

That’s an interesting choice. Of all the characters in the Hebrew Bible that you could have named, you named the one that my home church is named after. The only difficulty Abraham and his descendants would have understanding me would be with my accent.

Please don't take it to heart.

Then where do you want me to take it?

You are strange in the way you wanna communicate.

I was trained to communicate this way by my college professors. I’ve sat down with men like J.I. Packer, Alister McGrath, Colin Brown and others. They had no difficulty understanding me, nor I understanding them. Those names probably don’t mean anything to you but they are / were professional theologians who were technically competent; top men in their field.

I’m an academic and I communicate the way that academics communicate.

I don't believe in your whole religion you got going on for yourself.

That doesn’t come as news to me. You’ve said it before on other forums that we’ve been on together. You may forgotten but I haven’t.

 

[MatthewG]

That’s an interesting choice. Of all the characters in the Hebrew Bible that you could have named, you named the one that my home church is named after. The only difficulty Abraham and his descendants would have understanding me would be with my accent.



Then where do you want me to take it?



I was trained to communicate this way by my college professors. I’ve sat down with men like J.I. Packer, Alister McGrath, Colin Brown and others. They had no difficulty understanding me, nor I understanding them. Those names probably don’t mean anything to you but they are / were professional theologians who were technically competent in their field.

I’m an academic and I communicate the way that academics communicate.



That doesn’t come as news to me. You’ve said it before on other forums that we’ve been on together. You may forgotten but I haven’t.

Thanks for the run down, Matt. It still remains the same and that is okay. We still the same.

 

[Matthias]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch …

Jesus has a well-defined theology. If his theology has changed since his ascension into heaven then he isn’t the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[Matthias]

The “whole religion that you've got going on for yourself” that many people are disinterested in - or outright object to and reject out of hand - is primitive (i.e. undeveloped) Christianity.

P.S.

A report circulating on the forum which suggests that I hate Christianity (or Christendom) is false; a smear, attempting to group me with the JW’s.

 

[FredVB]

Modern Christianity is compromised in this modern world. Is this doubted? Really? Early believers were not materialistic this way, there was warning against it. And there is no consciousness of what exploitation there is behind what there is materialistic accumulation of, and there should be rather than almost chosen ignorance of it. It is not a good ethic to regard anything being alright to get no matter what.

Theology has its importance. But willing obedience to God with trust and faith, to turn away from sin, and live with love among any, matter much more.

 

[Matthias]

Modern Christianity is compromised in this modern world. Is this doubted?

It isn’t doubted by me.

Ancient Christianity was compromised in the ancient world. That’s the work of the devil.

Really? Early believers were not materialistic this way, there was warning against it. And there is no consciousness of what exploitation there is behind what there is materialistic accumulation of, and there should be rather than almost chosen ignorance of it. It is not a good ethic to regard anything being alright to get no matter what.

Theology has its importance. But willing obedience to God with trust and faith, to turn away from sin, and live with love among any, matter much more.

 

[Behold]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch …

Jesus has a well-defined theology. If his theology has changed since his ascension into heaven then he isn’t the same yesterday, today and forever.

The Bible is the Theology of Jesus, as Jesus is the Word, and the bible is the word of God.

Paul's Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus, and its not the same that Peter was preaching as "repent and get wet" in Acts 2.

The Holy Spirit dictated the word of God , and men wrote it down.

So, we see that Jesus is the Same........yet, when He was pre-incarnate He had no human body.......and when He was on Earth, He was now become a virgin born human, a suffering Messiah, and now He's in a Different body.....and is a King.

We see that Jesus went through some CHANGES......Yet, He's the same Jesus, the same "word made flesh, who dwelt among us".

And look at the word......= The word , the Bible, is a book of Progressive revelation.......It shows us what God has done, is doing now... and will complete, later, = that is different.....every single time.....Yet God does not Change...........
What changes is HOW God deals with Mankind......this changes all through the Bible... with more changes to come.

 

[Matthias]

The Bible is the Theology of Jesus, as Jesus is the Word, and the bible is the word of God.

Paul's Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus, and its not the same that Peter was preaching as "repent and get wet" in Acts 2.

The Holy Spirit dictated the word of God , and men wrote it down.

So, we see that Jesus is the Same........yet, when He was pre-incarnate He had no human body.......and when He was on Earth, He was now become a virgin born human, a suffering Messiah, and now He's in a Different body.....and is a King.

We see that Jesus went through some CHANGES......Yet, He's the same Jesus.

And look at the word......= The word , the Bible, is a book of Progressive revelation.......It shows us what God has done, is doing now... and will complete, later, = that is different.....every single time.....Yet God does not Change...........
What changes is HOW God deals with Mankind......this changes all through the Bible.

We’ve had this conversation before. There’s a lot of truth in what you wrote but it goes too far because it goes beyond the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism / theology.

Dividing Peter and Paul isn’t ever going to meet with my agreement. I don’t approve your message. I reject your message. You know that.

 

[Behold]

We’ve had this conversation nefore. There’s a lot of truth in what you wrote but it goes too far because it goes beyond the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.

I just quoted the verse........"became flesh, and dwelt among us".. so, that verse is not talking about anyone except the pre-incarnate word of God.

Also....... the Preincarnate Word.......became a virgin born man........the suffering Messiah, who became poor so that we could become RICH... and he offered his human body and blood for our salvation, and when He walked out of the Tomb, His body was eternal......same as we are going to get a "new body"....and Once He was Risen, His '"suffering messiah" period had ended, and now He's the one = "given all power in heaven and on earth'.

So, He did change.......a lot......for example...........when we read....>>"Jesus the same, yesterday, today, and forever".......we need to realize that when He was the pre-incarnate Word, He didnt have a name, except for "I am".
Christ became the name JESUS< after he became a HUMAN.....>He didnt have this name in Heaven, before He came down here.
See, this is another CHANGE.

 

[Matthias]

I just quoted the verse........"became flesh, and dwelt among us".. so, that verse is not talking about anyone except the pre-incarnate word of God.

Also....... the Preincarnate Word.......became a virgin born man........the suffering Messiah, who became poor so that we could become RICH... and he offered his human body and blood for our salvation, and when He walked out of the Tomb, His body was eternal......same as we are going to get a "new body"....and Once He was Risen, His '"suffering messiah" period had ended, and now He's the one with "given all power in heaven and on earth'.

So, He did change.......a lot......for example...........when we read....>>"Jesus the same, yesterday, today, and forever".......we need to realize that when He was the pre-incarnate Word, He didnt have a name, except for "I am".
Christ became the name JESUS< after he became a HUMAN.....>He didnt have this name in Heaven, before He came down here.
See, this is another CHANGE.

If you’re intent on getting me to agree with you about something then let it be this: Jewish monotheism isn’t compatible with your theology.

You and I have very little theologically in common. The benefit of our conversation has been to place our theologies side by side for others to compare and contrast. That’s a win-win proposition in my view.

I’m limited in where that can happen. Don’t think I’m not grateful for the opportunity that our conversations afford me. I am.

P.S.

“Jewish Christianity” - which cannot be divorced from Jewish theology - is currently allowed to be discussed on this forum, but where it can be expressed is restricted by Board policy. It wouldn’t be permitted if some “Christian” members, such as yourself, had their way. I’m delighted with the arrangement and support the policy.

 

[Behold]

If you’re intent on getting me to agree with you about something then let it be this: Jewish monotheism isn’t compatible with your theology.

You and I have very little theologically in common.

I only teach Pauline Doctrine, so, if that is not yours, then your's is not Paul's.

 

[Behold]

Ancient Christianity was compromised in the ancient world. That’s the work of the devil.

Yes, the MaryCult did their best to ruin it along with the Gnostics and the Religious Jews.

 

[Behold]

I believe Jesus is speaking about never dying the second death.

What are you teaching is the "second death"?

 

[Matthias]

I only teach Pauline Doctrine, so, if that is not yours, then your's is not Paul's.

The difference is that I teach Jesus’ and the apostles’ doctrine, and that includes Paul’s because it is Paul’s.

And im a Christian, so, what Unsaved Jews, who had no Salvation in Christ taught or teach, is irrelevant regarding Christianity.

I’m a primitive Christian. What unsaved Jews taught or teach is relevant to Christianity. It is the stage where primitive Christianity was born.

So, as you are on the "Christian Apologetics" section, then your "jewish monotheism" has no place here, and should not be found here.

I’m a primitive Christian and I (obviously) have posting privileges in the Christian Apologetics forum. Those who manage this platform (obviously) don’t presently share your opinion.

"Jesus monotheism" is not a Christian Doctrine......

The Messiah himself is a Jewish monotheist. It is the Messiah’s doctrine that is primitive Christian doctrine.

… so, you should sell it where its legit, ....and that is not on a section of this forum that is related to Christianity (Theology - Doctrine) .

See above. And thank you. This too is helpful in distinguishing the great gulf that exists between us.

 

[Matthias]

Yes, the MaryCult did their best to ruin it along with the Gnostics and the Religious Jews.

Jesus, the apostles and other disciples are religious Jews.

***

I do like irony. You say that I shouldn’t be here and then engage me in conversation which increases my presence here.

 

[Matthias]

What are you teaching is the "second death"?

It is an annihilation event from which there is no recovery.

 

[Matthias]

Edith Schaeffer (wife of Francis Schaeffer) wrote a book (originally published in 1975) titled Christianity is Jewish.

She’s right. Primitive Christianity is Jewish.

She’s also wrong. Nicene Christianity isn’t Jewish.

 

[Behold]

The difference is that I teach Jesus’ and the apostles’ doctrine, and that includes Paul’s because it is Paul’s.

The "other apostles" dont have any doctrine, tho Peter has some teachings, as does James, and so does Jude.
But its not Doctrine.

See, Paul gives us the "church Doctrine".

Also, Jesus came only to the Jews...>"the House of Israel"..so, most of what He taught them, is not what Paul teaches as "Church Doctrine".

I’m a primitive Christian. What unsaved Jews taught or teach is relevant to Christianity. It is the stage where primitive Christianity was born.

What unsaved Jews taught, is that Jesus is not the Messiah.
Listen, my Home is where "unsaved Jews" still teach that their Messiah is yet to come.
They dont know anything about Christianity.
They worship Moses Law.

I’m a primitive Christian and I (obviously) have posting privileges in the Christian Apologetics forum.

Post whatever you want, whenever you like.

The Messiah himself is a Jewish monotheist.

That is what you teach, regarding monotheism.
Jesus disagrees with you.

Jesus told the Religious Leaders that He is the "I am" who was alive before Abraham was born.

That is the same answer that God gave to Moses when Moses asked God....>"what is your Name".

Jesus just claimed it for Himself.