Still the same

[Matthias]

The "other apostles" dont have any doctrine, tho Peter has some teachings, as does James, and so does Jude.
But its not Doctrine.

Thank you. That is a huge distinction between us. I want our readers, as do you, to see that difference.

It’s important for me to make sure that my readers understand that doctrine, all doctrine, is teaching.

What is doctrine? | GotQuestions.org

What is doctrine? Why is doctrine important? What is the value in studying doctrine?

www.gotquestions.org

See, Paul gives us the "church Doctrine".

The church existed before Paul was converted and began teaching and preaching, and it has always during the time of its existence had “church doctrine”.

Also, Jesus came only to the Jews...>"the House of Israel"..so, most of what He taught them, is not what Paul teaches as "Church Doctrine".

Jesus has effectively come for everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. His gospel is for all mankind.

What unsaved Jews taught, is that Jesus is not the Messiah.

That’s right, as far as it goes.

Listen, my Home is where "unsaved Jews" still teach that their Messiah is yet to come.

Unsaved Jews do the same wherever they are found. Living part-time in Israel and part-time in the US, you know that.

They dont know anything about Christianity.

The unsaved Jews I’ve spoken with have all known something about Christianity.

They worship Moses Law.

They worship in vain the God of Moses.

Post whatever you want, whenever you like.

I don’t need your permission but I appreciate your modified attitude. I won’t be posting whatever I want. Just to clarify, I’ll be posting whatever I want within the boundaries of the Board rules.

That is what you teach.

It is also what trinitarian and non-trinitarian scholars teach. I’ve posted an abundance of quotations - almost exclusively from trinitarian sources, because I’m speaking primarily to a trinitarian audience - to establish the point.

Jesus disagrees with you.

Jesus would be the first to agree that he is a Jewish monotheist.

Jesus told the Religious Leaders that He is the "I am" who was alive before Abraham was born.

You’re putting a non-Jewish interpretation of what he said in his mouth.

That is the same answer that God gave to Moses when Moses asked God....>"what is your Name".

Ego eimi is a common expression and, as I’ve shown elsewhere using trinitarian sources, he is subtly (in most instances) claiming to be the Messiah, Son of the living God.

Jesus just claimed it for Himself.

See above.

 

[Behold]

Thank you. That is a huge distinction between us. I want our readers, as you do, to see that difference.

You want them to know that you want to talk about monotheism, endlessly.
Ok, i think that after all this time youve been on the Forum.., and all the time you spend doing it........they got your message.

The church existed before Paul, and it has always during the time of it’s existence had “church doctrine”.

The "church" that is the NT Body of Christ started in John 20:22, when the 11 received the Holy Spirit.

Notice....

"He that hath not the Spirit of God (inside you), is NONE OF His".

John 20:22 is when the Holy Spirit was given, the first time by Jesus.........and that is before Acts 2, when Jesus later sent down the "comforter".. the Holy Spirit.

Jesus has effectively come for everyone, Jew and Gentile alike.

"Jesus came into the world so save sinners".....

"all have sinned"... So, He came for us all, and not just the "predestined elect".

Unsaved Jews do the same wherever they are found. Living part-time in Israel and part-time in the US, you know that.

But its in Isreal where you mainly find the vicious Religious Jews, (many of them) who have a seriously hateful religious spirit and they'll prove it to you if you go near "the Old city" during "Shabbat"

They worship in vain the God of Moses.

Unsaved Jews...>"""being ignorant of God's righteousnes.. and going about to establsh their own, have not submitted to the righteousness of God""". (Romans 10)

And that is Because God's "righteousness" is Jesus, and they reject Him as their Messiah, so they "reject God's Righteousness"

I don’t need your permission but I appreciate your modified attitude.

My attitude is the same.
However, i recognize that you have a limited opportunity membership.

And because teaching Monotheism to try to deny the Trinity Doctrine, is just not that important.

There are some who will falsely teach that "if you dont believe in the Trinity, you can't go to heaven".....so, that is just as invalid and incorrect as teaching "monotheism".... however, because this can't ruin anyones faith in Christ.....its sort of a low level heresy being taught in both cases. And so.... if those 2 were the worst heresies being taught on "christian" Forums, then they would be safe for New Christians.
Howeven they are not safe for New Christians, because most of the Heresies being taught on Forums are trying to lead you into demonic Calvinism, or make you believe that "everyone is going to heaven, and there is no hell"......or they try to cause you to lose your faith in Christ.
So, what you are obsessed about.....is slightly harmless... Theologically .

It is also what trinitarian and non-trinitarian scholars teach. I’ve posted an abundance of quotations - almost exclusively from trinitarian sources - to establish the point.

I can find Scholars who teach that there is no Devil, there is no Hell, there is no eternal judgment, and the bible is filled with errors.
And These "scholars"......just like your group, all have more degrees then a Thermometer.
= Useless.

Ego eimi is a common expression and, as I’ve shown elsewhere using trinitarian sources, he is subtly (in most i stances when he uses the phrase) claiming to be the Messiah, Son of the God of Moses.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh".....who agreed with Thomas who said to Him......"my Lord and my God".

How many selves is your deity?

Jesus is not the Father.
The Father is not the Son
They are both the Holy Spirit.

ALL are "One".......or as Jesus said....>>"I and my Father are One".

This is why Jesus told you......"If you've seen ME......You've SEEN......the Father".

 

[Matthias]

You want them to know that you want to talk about monotheism, endlessly.

Among other things, I’m a retired adjunct theology professor. I want them to know many things, including - but not limited to - Jewish monotheism.

Will there ever be a time when you put an end to speaking about monotheism?

Ok, i think that after all this time youve been on the Forum.., and all the time you spend doing it........they got your message.

New members are being added daily. I think it’s reasonable to assume that new readers who haven’t joined, and may not ever, are increasing too.

The "church" that is the NT Body of Christ started in John 20:22, when the 11 received the Holy Spirit.

Notice....

"He that hath not the Spirit of God (inside you), is NONE OF His".

John 20:22 is when the Holy Spirit was given, the first time by Jesus.........and that is before Acts 2, when Jesus later sent down the "comforter".. the Holy Spirit.



"Jesus came into the world so save sinners".....

"all have sinned"... So, He came for us all, and not just the "predestined elect".

The church started when the Messiah began making disciples. In any case, it began before Paul became a disciple.

But its in Isreal where you mainly find the vicious Religious Jews, (many of them) who have a seriously hateful religious spirit and they'll prove it to you if you go near "the Old city" during "Shabbat"

There are more located outside of Israel than inside of Israel. Their spirit is found worldwide.

Unsaved Jews...>"""being ignorant of God's righteousnes.. and going about to establsh their own, have not submitted to the righteousness of God""". (Romans 10)

And that is Because God's "righteousness" is Jesus, and they reject Him as their Messiah, so they "reject God's Righteousness"

Simple.

My attitude is the same.

It wasn’t long ago that you were telling me that I don’t belong on this forum.

However, i recognize that you have a limited opportunity membership.

By personal choice. A decision I made three years before it became Board policy.

And because teaching Monotheism to try to deny the Trinity Doctrine, is just not that important.

I don’t just teach monotheism, and I don’t teach Jewish monotheism to try to deny the Trinity doctrine. The doctrine of the Nicene affirming Christians is important to them. My advice to them is that they should believe what they are persuaded is true.

There are some who will falsely teach that "if you dont believe in the Trinity, you can't go to heaven".....so, that is just as invalid and incorrect as teaching "monotheism".... however, because this can't ruin anyones faith in Christ.....its sort of a low level heresy being taught in both cases. And so.... if those 2 were the worst heresies being taught on "christian" Forums, then they would be safe for New Christians.

The current Board rules prohibit you from discussing it with them. Their creeds reflect their theology and you certainly aren’t allowed to speak against their theology. As for me, I don’t need to speak against their theology.

I posted the following on June 20, 2025 -

“I understand this will be a minority opinion among non-trinitarians, but here goes. Geronimo. Something I learned as an adjunct theology professor. It isn’t necessary for non-trinitarians to speak against trinitarianism. (And, unsurprisingly, it isn’t well-received by trinitarians when it is.) What is necessary is to provide students with education on Church history.

Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically.

Let everyone be convinced in his own mind.”

Howeven they are not safe for New Christians, because most of the Heresies being taught on Forums are trying to lead you into demonic Calvinism, or make you believe that "everyone is going to heaven, and there is no hell"......or they try to cause you to lose your faith in Christ.

Forums are notorious. When I was still teaching I assigned students to participate on them and document their experiences. They hated posting on online theology forums!

So, what you are obsessed about.....is slightly harmless... Theologically .

I invite our readers to review the creeds and decide for themselves.

I can find Scholars who teach that there is no Devil, there is no Hell, there is no eternal judgment, and the bible is filled with errors.

Certainly. What have I advised? Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically.

And These "scholars"......just like your group, all have more degrees then a Thermometer.
= Useless.

What you call “useless” I call potentially “useful.”

Edited: to add that the concessions of trinitarian scholars to my position are points of agreement. This needs to be pointed out to my readers, especially to my trinitarian readers.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh".....who agreed with Thomas who said to Him......"my Lord and my God".

That’s right.

Jesus is not the Father.
The Father is not the Son
They are both the Holy Spirit.

That’s not trinitarian, nor is it anything I haven’t heard you say before. It will, however, come as news to many of the trinitarian members.

Will they care? I don’t think most of them will. Those who are zealous for trinitarianism will, and should.

ALL are "One".......or as Jesus said....>>"I and my Father are One".

This is why Jesus told you......"If you've seen ME......You've SEEN......the Father".

You declined to provide a number in response to my question. One self? Two selves? I think it’s safe to say that your deity isn’t three selves.

 

[Behold]

Among other things, I’m a retired adjunct theology professor. I want them to know many things, including - but not limited to - Jewish monotheism.

You want us to compare our credentials?
You just pulled yours out.
Do you need me to provide mine?

Is that important to you, or did you just want to talk about yours?

Will there ever be a time when you put an end to speaking about monotheism?

If you dont bring up monotheism again on the forum.....i wont speak to you about it.

Can you stop anytime soon?

New members are being added daily. I think it’s reasonable to assume that new readers who haven’t joined, and may not ever, are increasing too.

I keep my students aways from 'christian forums" until they are became this...

"establish your heart with Grace"....and that takes some time.....as they have to go through the "baby christian" stage of learning that Jesus is not going to get rid of them, because they can't be perfert.
Once they grow theologically past that "crib stage", and can say with certainty that "Jesus who saved me keeps me saved" then i have no issue with them going to any "christian forum" they want to join..

The church started when the Messiah began making disciples.

A Disciple is a person that "Keeps the words of Jesus". Jesus said.

A Christian is a sinner who is born again, by the Spirit of God., and is now a SON/Daughter of God., and an "heir of God" and a "joint Heir with Jesus"

So, That is quite a bit more then just a "disciple'.

There are more located outside of Israel than inside of Israel. Their spirit is found worldwide.

Most Jews in this world, including in Israel, are not religous......they are secular.
So, they dont care about the Torah or Moses or any of it.
Its always the Unsaved Religious Fanatics that are the problem.......be it Jew, or Muslim, or American.

Its the same on a forum like this one, where you have them trying to teach Salvation as commandment keeping and water baptism, and self effort, and self saving.

It wasn’t long ago that you were telling me that I don’t belong on this forum.

I didnt tell you that.
I said that what you are teaching again today , regarding monotheism, that is not relevant to Christianty,. = so it should go.
But i walked that back for you, in the next post.
So, you can do what you want........stay, go..... its up to yo
Now there is one who teaches the Bahai faith, and i suggested that he take that where it belongs and Himself with it.
I would tell a Calvinist the same thing.. or a Catholic, or a Mormon, or a JW......
So, the Bahai perso took it to The Berean Forum..

I don’t just teach monotheism, and I don’t teach Jewish monotheism to try to deny the Trinity doctrine. The doctrine of the Nicene affirming Christians is important to them. My advice to them is that they should believe what they are persuaded is true.

All a person can believe is "what they are persuaded is true".....and that is how deception works also.

The current Board rules prohibit you from discussing it with them. Their creeds reflect their theology and you certainly aren’t allowed to speak against their theology. As for me, I don’t need to speak against their theology.

Ive actually not studied the "theology" that is stated in this forum's handbook.
I really dont need to know... and that is because what i teach is Core NT Theology.....and if they send me away then that is because its not found in their theology.
Im here 4 yrs, so, this indicates that all is well.......i suppose.

Forums are notorious.

Yes.
I dont let my new Students use them, until they are "grounded in Grace".

What you call “useless” I call potentially “useful.”

Its useful in a Seminary Class if i teach it.... as "world religions"......or something similar related to "who created the Torah".
So, "monotheism" would be a part of that curriculum.

That’s not trinitarian, nor is it anything I haven’t heard you say before. It will, however, come as news to many of the trinitarian members.

Will they care? I don’t think most of them will. Those who are zealous for trinitarianism will, and should.

I teach "3>1" a little differently, so that it can be simply understood.

Normally i'll show the students that Genesis says.

"Let US.... make man in OUR image".......and then i explain that the "US" is not God and the Angels.

Se, right there we find "2"......and when we add the Holy Spirt..the Math adds up to "3"

Its not hard to understand......unless you've been taught out of it.

You declined to provide a number in response to my question. One self? Two selves? I think it’s safe to say that your deity isn’t three selves.

God does not define His or His Son's, or His Holy Spirit's existance, as a 'self".
So, neither can i.

 

[Matthias]

You want us to compare our credentials?
You just pulled yours out.
Do you need me to provide mine?

Is that importan to to you, or did you just want to talk about yours?

I was talking about your attitude toward scholarship. What your credentials are, or might be, isn’t the issue. It’s what you say that is.

Scholars = useless, you said.

If you are a scholar, then you testify against your usefulness.

If you dont bring up monotheism again on the forum.....i wont speak to you about it.

The more you speak to me about it the higher my profile becomes. Since I’m confined (by personal choice and current Board policy) to a small portion of the Board, that is a great help to me. I invite and welcome everyone to speak with me about Jewish monotheism.

Can you stop anytime soon?

Only if I’m banned sometime soon or die.

I keep my students aways from 'christian forums" until they are became this...

"establish your heart with Grace"....and that takes some time.....as they have to go through the "baby christian" stage of learning that Jesus is not going to get rid of them, because they can't be perfert.
One they grow theologically past that "crib stage", and can say with certainty that "Jesus who saved me keeps me saved" then i have no issue with them going to any "christian forum" they want to join..

I would like to speak with your students. I would appreciate it if you would refer them to me.

A Disciple is a person that "Keeps the words of Jesus". Jesus said.

A Christian is a sinner who is born again, by the Spirit of God., and is now a SON/Daughter of God., and "heir of God" and a "joine Heir with Jesus"

So, That is quite a bit more then just a "disciple'.



Most Jews in this world, including in Israel, are not religous......they are secular.
So, they dont care about the Torah or Moses or any of it.
Its always that Unsaved Religious Fanatics that are the problem.......be it Jew, or Muslim, or American.

Its the same on a forum like this one, where you have them trying to teach Salvation as commandment keeping and water baptism, and self effort, and self saving.

I welcome them all to speak with me.

I didnt tell you that.
I said that what you are teaching again today , regarding monotheism, that is not relevant to Christianty,. so it should go.

If it should go then it logically follows that I should go. (See your suggestion to others below.) Jewish monotheism is highly relevant to Christianity. To deny that would be akin to denying that oxygen is highly relevant to breathing.

But you can do what you want........stay, go..... its up to yo

I take it one day at a time.

Now there is one who teaches the Bahai faith, and i suggested that he take that where it belongs and Himself with it.
I would tell a Calvinist the same thing.. or a Catholic, or a Mormon, or a JW......
So, the Bahai perso took it to The Berean Forum..

When that happens they can no longer be reached. I wouldn’t make that suggestion to them, to you, nor to anyone else.

All a person can believe is "what they are persuaded is true".....and that is how deception works also.

I don’t advise anyone to believe anything they aren’t persuaded is true. I’m not ignorant of their beliefs and I don’t fly a false banner. My registration as “Other Faith” is a clear indication that I’m not jere to deceive them.

Now someone who is registered as “Christian” but doesn’t believe and teach what this “Christian” platform believes and teaches - Nicene Christianity - is a potential deceiver.

Ive actually not studied the "theology" that is stated in this forum's handbook.

Then you’re ignorant.

I really dont need to know...

You’re satisfied with your ignorance.

and that is because what i teach is Core NT Theology.....and if they send me away then that is because its not found in their theology.
Im here 4 yrs, so, this indicates that all is well.......i suppose.

I’ve told you plainly what I think about your teaching. The amount of time you’ve been at it here doesn’t matter to me or alter my assessment. If it matters to them only they can say.

What matters to me is setting them all side by side for readers to compare and contrast.

Yes.

My students called them “gutters”.

I dont let my new Students use them.

Send me your old students.

Its useful in a Seminary Class if i teach it.... as "world religions"......or something similar related to "who created the Torah".
So, "monotheism" would be a part of that curriculum.

As it should be.

I teach "3>1" a little differently, so that it can be simply understood.

A little differently? What you’re teaching isn’t trinitarian at all.

Normally i'll show the students that Genesis says.

"Let US.... make man in OUR image".......and then i explain that the "US" is not God and the Angels.

I‘m aware of that. I‘ve set it side by side with Jewish monotheism on many occasions.

Se, right there we find "2"......and when we add the Holy Spirt..the Math adds up to "3"

Its not hard to understand......unless you've been taught out of it.

Three, where two of them are the Holy Spirit. That’s not “trinitarian” math.

God does not define His or His Son's, or His Holy Spirit's existance, as a 'self".
So, neither can i.

So when you read in scripture God saying “I myself” it is your word to me - and to our readers - that God is not using the phrase to define his existence.

Me - God defines his existence as the self existing one.

You - God does not define his existence as a self.

 

[Matthias]

If someone teaches “3>1 a little differently, so that it can be simply understood” is that an attempt to deceive people?

We’ve been tipped off ahead of time by the teacher. We should be on alert. A yellow flag should be waving gently in front of our eyes and an alarm bell sounding quietly in our ears. The teacher should expect no less than that from the students. Let’s pay close attention to what the teacher is saying.

Today’s lesson on the Trinity:

“Jesus is not the Father.“ - This is a fundamental trinitarian tenet.

”The Father is not the Son. “ - This is a fundamental trinitarian tenet.

”They are both the Holy Spirit.” - This is not a fundamental trinitarian tenet. This is a non-trinitarian tenet.

Have we been deceived? The teacher presented the material and we thought critically about it. Knowing ahead of time what trinitarianism actually teaches, we quickly spotted the flaw in the teaching.

The teacher should commend the wise students. We know the subject and passed the test.

But what if the students don’t know ahead of time what trinitarianism actually teaches? They’ve come to the teacher with a mind that is a blank slate. They trust the teacher to instruct them properly. If the students believe the lesson and the teacher doesn’t correct them, then the students have been deceived.

Don’t ever teach students something about the Trinity that trinitarianism doesn’t teach about the Trinity and pass it off as making trinitarian theology simple to understand. No responsible teacher would do such a thing.