I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity

[Lizbeth]

Having a good heart is not a free pass or get out of jail card. God does not waver or change his rules. If anyone thinks God will overlook things because someone has a "good heart", they are sadly mistaken. That's what the devil would like you to believe. "Few there be that find it". FEW!

We can't make judgments about any individual who we don't know personally or who the Lord hasn't revealed anything to us about, but the bible says the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it? And that all our righteousness is as filthy rags. The problem with the religious old covenant Jews is that they failed to receive what they were looking for because they sought to establish their own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ.....they sought it not by faith, but by their own works. Catholicism is a deceitful counterfeit of the true faith given to us by Jesus and the original apostles. It can be SO deceitful...we must not be lured in and deceived by outward appearances.

 

[David Lamb]

This entire post is presumptuous at best.

How can Trinitarianism be considered the original doctrine taught by the apostles, when Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would "guide them into all truth" (John 16:13)? The doctrine bears little resemblance to the preaching found in the book of Acts or to the doctrinal content of the apostolic letters. It's notably absent from the earliest post-biblical Christian writings, such as the Didache, and from the works of first-century figures like Papias and Polycarp. Far from being a natural conclusion of Scripture, the Trinity appears inconsistent with the plain teaching of the Bible, challenges reason, and lacks support from the earliest historical records of the faith.

Well, the deity of Christ is stated clearly at the opening of John's gospel. And in Colossians we read:

“For in Him (Christ) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:9 NKJV)

The description of the baptism of Jesus contains Father, Son and Holy Spirit:

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”” (Mt 3:16-17 NKJV)

 

[Lizbeth]

This entire post is presumptuous at best.

How can Trinitarianism be considered the original doctrine taught by the apostles, when Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would "guide them into all truth" (John 16:13)? The doctrine bears little resemblance to the preaching found in the book of Acts or to the doctrinal content of the apostolic letters. It's notably absent from the earliest post-biblical Christian writings, such as the Didache, and from the works of first-century figures like Papias and Polycarp. Far from being a natural conclusion of Scripture, the Trinity appears inconsistent with the plain teaching of the Bible, challenges reason, and lacks support from the earliest historical records of the faith.

Jesus Christ was God come in the flesh as scripture explicitly attests. However, I believe the formulating and writing of a "creed" to make anyone obligated to it, in itself was a departure from the simplicity of Christ. Anything that doesn't proceed from God's spirit but is from man is bound to miss the mark.

 

[nedsk]

I would argue they don't have the gospel......what they have and are perpetuating unfortunately is actually a false gospel and a false spirit.

To belong to Christ one must be born of His Spirit and have received His Spirit. Many people can have a mental belief in Jesus but without His Spirit and being born of Him as it were, it does not avail for eternal life. Jesus said, "Ye MUST be born again." The old covenant Jews had a mental belief in God....they only knew OF Him, but didn't know Him personally face to face and still needed to receive Christ to be saved, to inherit eternal life....it was even to them first that the gospel was preached, because they needed it the same as lost Gentiles. Catholicism is almost an exact replica of old covenant priesthood temple worship....along with all the similar religious trappings, it's a religion of whitewash the outside of the cup but inside are dead men's bones.

What then do you make of Matthew 28:19?????

 

[Lizbeth]

What then do you make of Matthew 28:19?????

I don't see how making disciples and baptizing is related to what I said.....unless that was a mistake and you meant another scripture....?

 

[nedsk]

What then do you make of Matthew 28:19?????

Sorry that wasn't meant for you

 

[Behold]

The catholics used to do what the moslems did - convert by the sword.

The jesuits are sword to force the entire world to be catholic

Not doubt this is a cult.

Regarding "who has killed more non-converts"..

The MaryCult is still in 1st Place, and Islam is definitely trying to catch up.
In Fact, if Islam were to kill all the Jews in Israel, as they are going to try to do, until Jesus comes back, then that would bring their total much closer to the MaryCult numbers of non-Cathilics and (Catholic Heretics) who they murdered, mostly during the "dark ages" that Catholicism created.

If anyone really wants to know about the MaryCult history, then do a study on The "Crusades", or on this Group... "The Cathars".
Its estimated, that at least 200,000, and up to 1 million "Cathers" were butchered by the MaryCult.
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[Hiddenthings]

Well, the deity of Christ is stated clearly at the opening of John's gospel. And in Colossians we read:

“For in Him (Christ) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:9 NKJV)

The description of the baptism of Jesus contains Father, Son and Holy Spirit:

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”” (Mt 3:16-17 NKJV)

As we've already seen in the Judas discussion, some things remain hidden from you, yet once again, you presume to speak with certainty on something that is, in fact, incorrect.

Let me ask you plainly: Who gave Jesus life and all things?

John 5:26 makes it clear “For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in himself.”

This presents a consistent theme throughout Scripture: everything Jesus has — his life, his name, his inheritance, even the fullness of God dwelling in him — was given to him by his God.

None of these things were inherent or self-originated. Otherwise, the statement “God gave God life” would become a contradiction and Scripture does not speak in contradictions.

Like I said, if you continue to persist David your preconceived beliefs will only be found to be false and you will retreat as you did previously.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would argue they don't have the gospel......what they have and are perpetuating unfortunately is actually a false gospel and a false spirit.

To belong to Christ one must be born of His Spirit and have received His Spirit. Many people can have a mental belief in Jesus but without His Spirit and being born of Him as it were, it does not avail for eternal life. Jesus said, "Ye MUST be born again." The old covenant Jews had a mental belief in God....they only knew OF Him, but didn't know Him personally face to face and still needed to receive Christ to be saved, to inherit eternal life....it was even to them first that the gospel was preached, because they needed it the same as lost Gentiles. Catholicism is almost an exact replica of old covenant priesthood temple worship....along with all the similar religious trappings, it's a religion of whitewash the outside of the cup but inside are dead men's bones.

Well you are talking about teh religion of the RCC and I am talking about the people. Every mass the gospel is read so they do have the gospel. Like many other cults they require lots of added burdens to understand the gospel but many catholics are believers, just loaded down with bad teaching.

Having perfect doctrine is not a prequisite to be saved or stay saved.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Having perfect doctrine is not a prequisite to be saved or stay saved.

And yet, following false doctrine disqualifies one from salvation because it's one of the works of the flesh on God's list of those that do these things shall not inherit the Kingdom.

Making excuses for false doctrine is being just as bad as those teaching the false doctrine.

 

[Lizbeth]

Well you are talking about teh religion of the RCC and I am talking about the people.

How can you separate the people from the religion they are following, believing in, participating in and supporting...?

Having perfect doctrine is not a prequisite to be saved or stay saved.

No but having the life of the Spirit is. And if the doctrine one believes in is bad enough, it will not lead to salvation but astray of it.

 

[Keiw]

Is that the story you are running with?

It's very biblical so the catholics had nothing to do with God being a 3 part being.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

Let's see ya explain that away!

I know the bible well, your Catholic version( all trinity versions were translated from Catholicism translating) is altered and filled with errors.

 

[Keiw]

Catholicism did not create the Trinity. It is there in the bible. For instance, in John's gospel we read:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

In case we don't understand that by "the Word," John is referring to Jesus Christ, he writes a few verses later:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of God:

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.” (Mt 3:16 NKJV)

As I and others say quite often, the actual word "Trinity" is not found in the bible, but the belief that God exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit is certainly there.

All can look up the Greek at John 1:1-2Cor 4:4--the only 2 spots in NT where 2 are being called God or god. The true God at both spot=God, got a different Greek word than the Word or satan, yet Catholicism translated the second Greek word 2 different ways--but reality = The reason why both in each paragraph are called different words is to show the difference of God and god--The Word was called god.= 100% fact.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How can you separate the people from the religion they are following, believing in, participating in and supporting...?

Because what is required to be saved!
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 10:9-13

King James Version

​

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I do not believe that any believer is 100% perfect in all they believe. If a Catholic believes that Jesus died for their sin and rose again for their justification, they are saved! That is Scripture. They may have lots of baggage that hampers their relationship with Jesus, but they are children of God according to God!

No but having the life of the Spirit is. And if the doctrine one believes in is bad enough, it will not lead to salvation but astray of it.

And you seem to believe you know that a Catholic has enough of this bad doctrine. That is not for you to decide but God alone! Jesus did not tell us to believe on Him and make sure you do not have X amount of bad doctrine.
\
That is a kissing couswin to another false doctrine of salvation by grace + works. Believe on jesus and you must do X amount of works to stay saved.

Both of these are false doctrines. I am not defending Catholic false doctrine. Nor would I defend Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Pentecostal etc.etc.etc false doctrine. I am just declarinf what Scripture says is required to be saved!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Jesus Christ was God come in the flesh as scripture explicitly attests.

Overstating something is often compensation for error.

 

[Lizbeth]

Overstating something is often compensation for error.

Jhn 1:1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:14-15

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.



Jhn 8:57-58

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



Phl 2:5-8

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.



Jhn 14:8-9

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father'?


1Ti 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

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Are you still doubting, like Thomas was? Thankfully, he came around:


Jhn 20:27-29

Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[fn] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

[Lizbeth]

Because what is required to be saved!
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Yes, and then we get tested.

God says this:

2Co 6:14-18

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, and then we get tested.

God says this:

2Co 6:14-18

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

What false doctrine does your local church and/or denomination have? All church have some measure of false doctrine because no church has arrived to perfect know3ledge yet. The RCC does have the greatest load of false doctrine among all teh sects within Christendom, and no the denomination is very very heretical, but Catholics can and do still get saved.