PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
God replaced the Jewish leaders and their Temple and something else as well.
"HE who has the Bride is the BrideGroom"
"I will destroy this Temple and in THREE days I will Raise it UP"
"the kingdom will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruit thereof"
12 Apostles replaced the Jewish leaders
JESUS is the PERMANENT Eternal High Priest = the Jewish leaders are cast out of His Temple
JESUS is the TEMPLE of God = we are Living Stones in His TEMPLE
JESUS is the ISRAEL of God who is bearing The FRUIT thereof
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 25:31-35 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Who are the chosen and who are the nations?
Who are the sheep, and why are they gathered separately from the chosen?
Who are the goats, and why are the sheep and goats judged according to their works to determine whether they will enter the kingdom?
If you know, please give clear, concise, succint answers.
And remember . . . a man's words reveal what is in that man's heart.
Much love!
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The word "nations" is translated from the Greek word "ethnos" which can mean people in general, the heathen, the Gentiles and other things. In this case it's referring to people in general and they are all separated to Christ's right hand (the sheep) and left hand (the goats).
I already told you who the chosen are. It's us. The church.
Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Those who belong to Christ, of course. The church. You need to learn to allow scripture to interpret scripture for you.
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The "one fold" of the one shepherd, Jesus, is the church consisting of "this fold" (Jewish believers) and another fold with "other sheep" (Gentile believers) that were joined together into the one fold.
They're not. Where do you get that idea from? After the angels gather the church we are then brought before the throne of Jesus after which we are moved to His right hand with unbelievers being moved to His left hand.
The goats are unbelievers. The lost. The unsaved. Those whose names are not written in the book of life. That's why it says they are cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41) at that time, which is the same as the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).
If you look at the text closely you should see that each person is judged according to whether they served Jesus or not. He commands us to love others as we love ourselves, so the things He talks about are the kinds of things we do to love others and to serve Him. As He said, people are known by their fruit, which represent their works (Matthew 7:16-20). It doesn't mean we are saved by works, it means our works reflect what kind of faith we have and who we serve.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That is not a question that has anything to do with being Amil or Premil. Watching and being ready has to do with being spiritually in right standing with God and being in spiritual light instead of spiritual darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
To watch and be ready involves being careful to be spiritually awake and sober. To be aware of deception and to avoid spiritual darkness. We get ready and prepared for His return by doing things like focusing on faith and love and the hope of salvation and by encouraging one another and building each other up. We get ready by living "holy and godly lives" while we look forward to that day.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Nope. He combined "this fold" (Jewish believers) with the "other sheep" (Gentile believers) into one fold with one shepherd (John 10:11-16) which represents the one body of Christ consisting of Jew and Gentile believers in the church.
We have already answered this and you've already ignored it. You have to because it exposes your position.
Bro, there is no other interpretation. Those who have eyes to see will see it. Those who do not will not
I'm sorry, nevermind, I should not have replied to you.
This is a perfect example. That's a rewording of the text to make it say something different.
I'm interested in discussing Scripture with those who do not change it.
Much love!
The Light
Well-Known Member
Exactly. There are two folds that are combined into one-fold, which is the great multitude that attend the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage supper takes place in heaven during the one-year wrath of God. Both folds are in heaven as one-fold as they are both raptured to heaven. The first fold is the Gentiles and they are raptured at the pretribulation rapture. The second fold are the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. They are raptured pre wrath.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
a CLEAR example of rewording the text is in Post 570
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
If you make an accusation PLEASE validate with evidence
If you make an accusation PLEASE validate with evidence
PLEASE communicate "Much love" as Christ would have us to do so that everything is Open in the Light of the Scriptures
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. How did I reword the text? I was giving an interpretation of the text as I see it. You should not talk to anyone if you don't want anyone to give their interpretations. This seems like an excuse for you to get out of having to explain why you interpret the chosen/elect differently than how it is described in the rest of the NT and why you interpret the sheep differently than how it is described in John 10, etc.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
How about you do that and then tell me how you interpret it instead of making accusations of rewording the text? I was not even talking about one verse, I was talking about Matthew 25:31-46 as a whole.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Have you never actually read John 10? The first fold is what Jesus called "this fold" when talking about Jewish believers and here you are trying to say "the first fold is the Gentiles"? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Also, the seed of the woman are said to be Jesus Himself (Rev 12:5) and those who follow Him (Rev 12:17), so there is no basis for saying the second fold are the Jews. You have things completely the wrong way around. The first fold Jesus talked about in John 10 were Jewish believers and the "other sheep" He referred to were Gentile believers. Together, Jew and Gentile believers make up one fold, one new man, one body, one church, with Jesus Christ as the shepherd and chief cornerstone. How can you not discern simple, fundamental things like this? I have to speak to you as someone who is carnal and just a babe in Christ rather than someone who is spiritual and mature because you are just sipping on milk and not ready for solid food.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Which verse? I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying because I was not referring to just one verse. I said "If you look at the text closely you should see that each person is judged according to whether they served Jesus or not.".
Here the verses I was referring to in relation to the sheep on His right hand:
Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Notice what He said in verse 40 there. How does what I said reword what He said? Do you not think He was talking about how they served Him by helping the least of these?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's the least he can do. If he's going to make an accusation he should be willing to show exactly what he is accusing me of doing and why.
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