PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[rebuilder 454]

The coming Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the Jews, the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth, whose eyes are opened, are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. That is why there is a great multitude in Revelation 7, some of whom come out of great tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 19 as you know is at the end of wrath, after the marriage supper.

WHERE is Rev 19, the 2nd Coming, displayed in the bible, or referred to, in scripture, BESIDES the one in Rev 19 second coming reference?

It appears you do not believe the second coming is on white horses.

 

[David in NJ]

Rev 14 is your postrib rapture.
You have been shown 100 times mat 24 gathering is by angels in heaven.
...and yet you STILL TRANSPOSE that into the gathering on earth of 1 thes 4.

Invincible ignorance.

" condemnation prior to investigation"

JESUS has only One Flock

 

[The Light]

JESUS has only One Flock

Yes. And two folds.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes. And two folds.

You never posted a single scripture that declares the gentiles are the first fold

 

[David in NJ]

JESUS has only One Flock

Your quoting from Romans chapter 11 nukes your error of gentiles being the first fold.

 

[The Light]

Your quoting from Romans chapter 11 nukes your error of gentiles being the first fold.

Romans 11

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

 

[The Light]

You never posted a single scripture that declares the gentiles are the first fold

hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

 

[David in NJ]

Romans 11

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

What else does Romans ch11 say concerning the relationship between the Jew and the Gentile

 

[David in NJ]

hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

This verse , again, nukes your claim of the gentiles being the first fold

 

[The Light]

WHERE is Rev 19, the 2nd Coming, displayed in the bible, or referred to, in scripture, BESIDES the one in Rev 19 second coming reference?

Revelation 19 is not the second coming. Contrary to popular belief, the second coming occurs at the 6th seal. That is when all eyes see the coming of the Lord.

Below in Revelation 14 is the second coming. It occurs at the 6th seal. When you are reading Rev 13 and 14 you are back in the seals.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

The Church is raptured when it is like the days of Noah. Noah is shut in the ark before the flood comes. The rapture of the Church is a secret rapture. The only ones that see the Lord are the first fold.

The AOD will be set up after the Church is raptured. Then the great tribulation will then begin. At the end of the great tribulation there is a rapture of the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. It will be like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. That day of destruction is the day of wrath.

Luke 17
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The Lord is revealed at the 6th seal. Then the day of wrath begins. The Lord remains in the clouds and gathers the elect from heaven earth. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7.

It appears you do not believe the second coming is on white horses.

Correct. The second coming is not on white horses though that's what is taught. The second coming occurs the day the Lord is revealed. That day occurs at the 6th seal.

When we return on white horses that is Armageddon. After Armageddon Jesus set His feet on the mount of Olives. This is the second advent.

 

[The Light]

What else does Romans ch11 say concerning the relationship between the Jew and the Gentile

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[The Light]

This verse , again, nukes your claim of the gentiles being the first fold

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

*sigh* Oh grasshopper, how is it that you do not understand that the fathers of the Jews were seen as the first fruits of the first harvest.....BUT the Jews served BAALPEOR. The Jews will not be the first harvest; the Gentiles will be. What do the Jews say after the summer harvest is over?

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

[David in NJ]

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Again this scripture nukes your hypothesis that the first fold are the gentiles.

Here is the EVIDENCE that the first fold are the Jews

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,
for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

and there are many more

 

[covenantee]

Yes. And two folds.

Nowhere in Scripture are Gentiles described as being in a "fold".

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes. And two folds.

There is only one sheepfold
But there are these other scattered sheep.
We are told what Christ does, He brings them together into one sheepfold, which is one flock of sheep having one shepherd.


16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

John 10
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

Jesus the Good Shepherd​

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a [b]hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Definition of 'sheepfold'
Pen or shelter for sheep
A sheepfold is defined as a pen or shelter for sheep, often enclosed by a fence or wall to keep the sheep safe. It serves as an area in a field where sheep are kept. The term originates from Middle English and reflects its purpose as an enclosure for livestock.

Sheep outside of a sheepfold are in danger, lost sheep missing their shepherd having been scattered.

 

[The Light]

Again this scripture nukes your hypothesis that the first fold are the gentiles.

Here is the EVIDENCE that the first fold are the Jews

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,
for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

and there are many more

That was the plan wasn't it. But they would not.

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[The Light]

There is only one sheepfold
But there are these other scattered sheep.
We are told what Christ does, He brings them together into one sheepfold, which is one flock of sheep having one shepherd.


16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

John 10
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

Jesus the Good Shepherd​

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a [b]hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Definition of 'sheepfold'
Pen or shelter for sheep
A sheepfold is defined as a pen or shelter for sheep, often enclosed by a fence or wall to keep the sheep safe. It serves as an area in a field where sheep are kept. The term originates from Middle English and reflects its purpose as an enclosure for livestock.

Sheep outside of a sheepfold are in danger, lost sheep missing their shepherd having been scattered.

Right. Two folds into one-fold with one shepherd.

 

[David in NJ]

That was the plan wasn't it. But they would not.

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Did God allow the leaders of the Jewish people with the Temple override His Plan???

 

[WPM]

Who are the foolish virgins?

Five represent believers, five represent religious deceivers.

 

[The Light]

Did God allow the leaders of the Jewish people with the Temple override His Plan???

God saw the fathers of Isael as the first ripe in the fig tree at her first time, but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.