PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[Spiritual Israelite]

Funny how several very important scriptural teachings about the end simply get glossed over and ignored, like 2 Thess 1.
You never hear about them from any but a few people

And those few people are always Amils like us. Premils don't want to talk about 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 at all because, like 2 Peter 3:10-12, it very clearly indicates that Jesus will bring fire down on all unbelievers when He comes with His vengeance and wrath. It's no wonder that Premils don't want to talk about that passage because they require at least some mortals to survive His return in order to populate their imaginary future earthly millennial kingdom.

 

[Scott Downey]

And those few people are always Amils like us. Premils don't want to talk about 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 at all because, like 2 Peter 3:10-12, it very clearly indicates that Jesus will bring fire down on all unbelievers when He comes with His vengeance and wrath. It's no wonder that Premils don't want to talk about that passage because they require at least some mortals to survive His return in order to populate their imaginary future earthly millennial kingdom.

It really puts major holes in a lot of strange doctrines about the end.

And then this too, the 'Old Testament Christians' all love to keep on with the Law and the Prophets, but they are over, as Christ fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets for righteousness. And of the OC, because it required obedience to commandments and they failed to continue in His covenant, God has disregarded them. All of that passed away being obsoleted. We have a new High Priest in Christ and that necessitated a change in the law.
Some of them even deny the need to be born again and that the gentiles have their place in the New Covenant.

Somethings I have been thinking about are here:

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Luke 16
16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one [g]tittle of the law to fail.

And this
Mathew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [a]jot or one [b]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

And this
Hebrews 8

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away

 

[The Light]

He only comes a second time, that is obviously the apostle's doctrine.
Any other comings people might think up are just not written as such in scripture, so they do not count.

Specifically, that second time is also called His appearing, as does Peter in saying God will send Christ whom heaven must receive until the restoration of all things. Meaning Christ only comes back once as until that time He MUST remain in heaven.
Any other returns are just speculation, so why make up stuff?

It appears that you are making things up. We won't even talk about the pretribulation rapture that you cannot see. How about this coming of the Lord for the 144,000 first fruits.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

You also seem to be missing the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal which is seen in Matthew 24. That harvest is also seen here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

You seem to be missing some comings of the Lord.

I'm guessing you know that He comes for Armageddon.

Hebrews 9
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Unto them that look for Him, He will appear a second time.

The Church will be looking for Him at the pretrib rapture. He will appear to those who look for Him.

Acts 3

16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

Right, He comes for the Church. Heaven must receive Him.
He comes for the 144,000 first fruits. Heaven must receive Him.
He comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal. Heaven must receive Him.

 

[The Light]

What kind of question is this and how does it relate to what I said about this age and the age to come?


LOL. Obviously not.


Certainly not. You try to make two raptures out of one with your ridiculous twisting and manipulating of the text in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 which shows that you can't be taken seriously at all.


View attachment 65642

Some see. Some don't. There is a reason that some are watching and ready for His appearing and some are not watching. They don't think He comes until the end of wrath. Scripture says differently

 

[The Light]

Funny how several very important scriptural teachings about the end simply get glossed over and ignored, like 2 Thess 1.
You never hear about them from any but a few people

2 Thes 1
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Funny how many miss the FACT that Jesus is revealed at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.
There is a reason the kings of the earth, rich men, etc. are hiding in caves and in the rocks of the mountains. Jesus is revealed.

 

[The Light]

And those few people are always Amils like us. Premils don't want to talk about 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 at all because, like 2 Peter 3:10-12, it very clearly indicates that Jesus will bring fire down on all unbelievers when He comes with His vengeance and wrath. It's no wonder that Premils don't want to talk about that passage because they require at least some mortals to survive His return in order to populate their imaginary future earthly millennial kingdom.

What's the big fear. Jesus returns at the 6th seal and then the 7th is opened and it's on..........Gods wrath. That is why there is a harvest at the 6th seal. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

 

[The Light]

It really puts major holes in a lot of strange doctrines about the end.

I see some pretty strange doctrines.............such as the 7th seal wrath of God is 30 minutes of silence in heaven.

Do you think the nations of the earth mourn because of 30 minutes of silence in heaven.

Start with common sense if you cannot understand the Word of God. Does 30 minutes of silence in heaven sound like God is pouring out His wrath?

 

[WPM]

Certainly, this is what is commonly taught. Now let's get to the facts. The dead in Christ rise first in the spring. This is the barley harvest. The alive remain. When the Lord returns for the alive the remain at the end of summer He will bring the dead in Christ with Him. The end of summer harvest for the that remain is the wheat harvest.

Then the Lord will return for the fruit harvest in the fall. There are two raptures.

More extra-biblical nonsense. This getting old. This is pure fantasy.

 

[WPM]

I see some pretty strange doctrines.............such as the 7th seal wrath of God is 30 minutes of silence in heaven.

Do you think the nations of the earth mourn because of 30 minutes of silence in heaven.

Start with common sense if you cannot understand the Word of God. Does 30 minutes of silence in heaven sound like God is pouring out His wrath?

The 6th seal is the end. Revelation is several recaps all finishing at the second coming.

 

[WPM]

The dead in Christ will rise when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.


Think about this. MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth will be raised. Not all of them, many of them. This is the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. You are confusing the judgement that occurs after the 7th trumpet when the dead are raised and judged with those that are believers in the Messiah.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The last day of the age is the 6th seal. You are confusing the judgement of the dead after the 7th trumpet with the many that are raised at the 6th seal.

I have never heard such nonsense in my life. What are you on?

Daniel 12:1-3 reveals, “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

The first thing we need to establish here is: this is describing a general resurrection. This resurrection involves two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." Pretrib or Premil does not believe that. They oppose that. They are therefore fighting with the text. The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not surprisingly, Daniel 12 agrees with the consistent New Testament Scripture. This is one of many passages that prove Amillennialist position. This text totally negates the Premillennial paradigm.

They cannot go anywhere near recognizes the fact there is a general judgment in view here. Your fixation with "many" is a sidetrack from the indisputable reality of a future general resurrection when Jesus comes.

The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. It refers to a large number, which may or may not refer to all of something.

In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”

The all-inclusive resurrection that the Old Testament prophet foresaw is confirmed in the New Testament writings. "All" indeed the dead come forth when Jesus comes. The abundance of the dead are released on that great climatic day.

 

[The Light]

The 6th seal is the end. Revelation is several recaps all finishing at the second coming.

Really. Just pretend that the 7th seal wrath of God is 30 minutes of silence in heaven. If that nonsense works for you.....great.

 

[WPM]

What's the big fear. Jesus returns at the 6th seal and then the 7th is opened and it's on..........Gods wrath. That is why there is a harvest at the 6th seal. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

It is the end - total destruction. Hello!

Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

There is total destruction – for those left behind. Anyway, demons are not dissolved in Premil, they saturate its alleged future millennium 1,000 yrs after the second coming.

Revelation 6:13-17 records: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, andhide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

 

[The Light]

I have never heard such nonsense in my life. What are you on?

Daniel 12:1-3 reveals, “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

The first thing we need to establish here is: this is describing a general resurrection. This resurrection involves two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." Pretrib or Premil does not believe that. They oppose that. They are therefore fighting with the text. The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not surprisingly, Daniel 12 agrees with the consistent New Testament Scripture. This is one of many passages that prove Amillennialist position. This text totally negates the Premillennial paradigm.

They cannot go anywhere near recognizes the fact there is a general judgment in view here. Your fixation with "many" is a sidetrack from the indisputable reality of a future general resurrection when Jesus comes.

The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. It refers to a large number, which may or may not refer to all of something.

In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”

The all-inclusive resurrection that the Old Testament prophet foresaw is confirmed in the New Testament writings. "All" indeed the dead come forth when Jesus comes. The abundance of the dead are released on that great climatic day.

Many means many.

Many is not all.

Additionally, the verses talk about the people of Daniel. That is the nail in the coffin. You are going to have to really make something up to get past that fact.

 

[The Light]

It is the end - total destruction. Hello!

Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

There is total destruction – for those left behind. Anyway, demons are not dissolved in Premil, they saturate its alleged future millennium 1,000 yrs after the second coming.

Revelation 6:13-17 records: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, andhide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. That silence in nonsense doesn't come close to flying.

 

[Douggg]

The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth.

You need to distinguish that the sixth seal is shortly before Jesus coming down to earth.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven (red highlighted text). And shorty thereafter, Jesus coming with power and great glory (blue highlighted text).

When Jesus descends to earth in Revelation 19, what have the kings of earth and their armies gathered together to do in Revelation 19:19 ?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The wicked men of the earth will be terrified - when they see Jesus in heaven, sickle in hand (from Revelation 14:14), the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

After their initial reaction of being totally terrified, the kings of the earth will gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and his army of heaven.

That's what Revelation 19:19 indicates.

 

[Scott Downey]

Heaven and earth is passing away at the 6th seal, as Jesus is returning
And this also fits with 2 Peter 3 on the Day of the Lord, the heavens and earth pass away.
It is recorded in the gospels. that this is the second coming.

Revelation 6

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [g]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [i]receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

Luke 21

The Coming of the Son of Man​

25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Matthew 24

The Coming of the Son of Man​

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Mark 13

The Coming of the Son of Man​

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that [i]it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

 

[Scott Downey]

Another truth here is that from seal 1 to seal 6 of Revelation 6, the church is present on the earth, as the church is elect unto salvation
Which also proves there is not a pre-trib rapture. The elect of the church are there on earth until the return of Christ.

That all the mighty men and all people see Him returning, proves this is a visible second coming of Christ for the elect.
Not a secret rapture for the elect.

Revelation 6
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [g]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [i]receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Mark 13

The Coming of the Son of Man​

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Yes the elect are saved from His wrath, as this is when the elect are gathered off the earth

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

 

[Scott Downey]

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Everything that happens on earth after our being gathered is wrath, which the unbelieving and wicked and those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel, will experience His wrath

So on the Day of His wrath, which is the second coming, we are gathered to Him.
Just like Lot, on the day he left Sodom, the fire of God fell on the wicked
The same with Noah, when Noah enters the ark, the flood came.

Luke 17:28
Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
Luke 17:29
but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

When you interpret Revelation and all its visions and events, you have to consider the words of Christ to His people about the end and fit that in.
The doctrines of Christ to His people have the preeminent authority.
Revelation does not take away from what Christ taught or nullify that, which it seems to me, people are doing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some see. Some don't.

Some make things up in their imagination (looking at you).

There is a reason that some are watching and ready for His appearing and some are not watching. They don't think He comes until the end of wrath. Scripture says differently

Scripture says that Christ's wrath will come on the day of His second coming (Matthew 24:35-39, 1 Thess 4:14-5:3, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Rev 14:14-20, Rev 19:11-21). Scripture says that He is coming a second time, not a third time and it will be in the same manner in which He left (Hebrews 9:28, Acts 1:9-11).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What's the big fear. Jesus returns at the 6th seal and then the 7th is opened and it's on..........Gods wrath. That is why there is a harvest at the 6th seal. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

How do you reconcile 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 with your doctrine? Like 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:3, Paul teaches there that Jesus will come once and deliver His wrath upon all of His enemies while gathering His people to Himself. How do you get two separate events from that? Your doctrine blatantly contradicts what Paul taught.