Rejecting Christ, or rejecting "Christianity"? (the church) ???

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A Freeman

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Didn't Christ teach us that only heathens and hypocrites go to church (or synagogue, mosque, temple, etc.)?

Matthew 6:5-8
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward (they have been seen by men, but God will not answer them).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (by answering you).
6:7 But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen [DO]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 Be NOT ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, BEFORE ye ask Him.

A church (synagogue, mosque, temple, etc.) is a building, made with human hands, to be a place of BUSINESS (to sell their wares). God does NOT dwell in such places, and neither should anyone who actually believes Christ's Teachings.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the Most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet (Isa. 66:1-2),

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and Earth, dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands;

This is why Ghandi said what he did about loving Christ (Truth) instead of "Christianity" (the organized religion with thousands of different denominations all claiming to be "The Way" when, in fact, NONE of them are). One cannot claim to believe, know and love Christ and continue disobeying His Teachings (which center on keeping God's Law and DOING God's Will), which were given to us for our individual and collective benefit, to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free. Free from oppression, injustice and from ignorance and confusion.
 

Skovand

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Didn't Christ teach us that only heathens and hypocrites go to church (or synagogue, mosque, temple, etc.)?

Matthew 6:5-8
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward (they have been seen by men, but God will not answer them).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (by answering you).
6:7 But when ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions, as the heathen [DO]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 Be NOT ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, BEFORE ye ask Him.

A church (synagogue, mosque, temple, etc.) is a building, made with human hands, to be a place of BUSINESS (to sell their wares). God does NOT dwell in such places, and neither should anyone who actually believes Christ's Teachings.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the Most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet (Isa. 66:1-2),

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and Earth, dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands;

This is why Ghandi said what he did about loving Christ (Truth) instead of "Christianity" (the organized religion with thousands of different denominations all claiming to be "The Way" when, in fact, NONE of them are). One cannot claim to believe, know and love Christ and continue disobeying His Teachings (which center on keeping God's Law and DOING God's Will), which were given to us for our individual and collective benefit, to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free. Free from oppression, injustice and from ignorance and confusion.
For me instead of thinking none of them are the way, I think all of them are the way.
 

St. SteVen

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For me instead of thinking none of them are the way, I think all of them are the way.

[
 

A Freeman

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For me instead of thinking none of them are the way, I think all of them are the way.
But how could that be true, when they ALL teach the opposite of what Christ teaches?

Christ repeatedly told us to stay away from priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc. (religious leaders and teachers, e.g. Matt. 23) and their places of business (churches, synagogues, mosques temples, etc.) because they are NOT "The Way". Christ and His True Teachings are The Way.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am The Way, the Truth, and the Life: NOT one man cometh unto the Father, EXCEPT by me.

We have ONE Teacher/Master:

Matthew 23:8-10
23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

ONE Mediator between God and men:

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the Man Jesus Christ;

ONE High-Priest:


5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made The High Priest; but He that said unto him, Thou art My Son, to day have I created for thee (Psalm 2:7).
5:6 As He saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a Priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
5:10 Called by God an High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.
5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

And ONE Good Shepherd:

John 10:7-12
10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
10:8 ALL that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have Life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
10:11 I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
10:12 But he that is an hireling, and NOT the Shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

One doesn't mean hundreds, or thousands, much less hundreds of thousands of priests/pastors(shepherds)/rabbis/imams/mediators/teachers, etc.

ONE MEANS ONE.

Isn't that why Father sent His Christ into this world? It certainly was NOT to create additional organized religions; it was the evil organized religion of Jesus' time (church) and the ruling government (state) that conspired to murder Jesus.

Haven't we been warned for thousands of years NOT to follow the spiritually blind leaders of church and state?

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, TO THY DESTRUCTION.

Matthew 15:12-14
15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the politicians were offended, after they heard this saying?
15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath NOT planted, shall be rooted up.
15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch (or Pit).
 

Behold

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Behold, prove to me that a demon helped Calvin create Calvinism.


First understand this..

Paul said......"WHO....has bewitched you".... so, that is Paul explaining Hebrews 13:9 that says that MEN like John Calvin are the BeWITCHERS.. the Spell Binders.. the devils.. who write "doctrines of devils"...... who use clever lies to deceive people, like you.

What Calvin did was predestine God's Foreknowledge............and that twisted it.. And from there Calvin pre-destines what isn't predestined in the New Testament...., and that is the core rot of His Satanic Theology.

So, all those like Calvin, who "bewitch".. are doing it on behalf of demonic power.... always.. as that is how it DECEIVES you.

Now...You need to post something that shows you are cognizant of how deception works... as you seem to be oblivious to the realtiy of Theological deception@Bruce-Leiter .

Let me show you what i mean..

Lets say you are talking to a JW or a MORMON.. and they say.....>>"Prove what i believe is not true'.

So, that is not going to happen, as they BELIEVE IT.......they are DECEIVED...so, you can't prove to this mindset....
All that can happen, is that you plant seeds in them, and then God has to take it from there.

Understand....Im not here because of you........im not talking to you or Ronald, or the other Calvin Dealers, for their sake......or yours.
You are entrenched,... you have a stronghold in you MIND, that is CALVINISM... So, that is a deep deep deception.. that you've had for many years.. so, its not going to let go, unless you decide to get it out.

So, what i do, is talk to the deceived calvinists so that the members on a forum can watch how you and the rest.... work so hard to try to try to prove Cross denying Lies., that are the Doctrine of J.Calvin.....
That is what im doing here, and that is what you are doing here.
 
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St. SteVen

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The parody below illustrates how the church
and Christians can stand in the way of someone
having a relationship with Jesus.


What is the solution?

--- PARODY --- (the parenthetical statements represent what they are thinking) - LOL

Christian: Do you know Jesus? (a very good question)
Prospect: I've heard of him. (I need to get away fast)
Christian: But do you know him personally? (another good question)
Prospect: I've heard of that too. (I don't like where this is going)
Christian: You need to invite him into your life. (smooth)
Prospect: Why would I want to do that? (shields up, battle mode)
Christian: Because of your sin. (Careful. get ready to sink the hook)
Prospect: My sin? (run feet, run)
Christian: Yes. We are all born sinners in need of forgiveness. (steady...)
Prospect: I've heard of that too. (feet, why aren't you running?)
Christian: Jesus died to pay for our sin. (keep going)
Prospect: Okay, hang on... do you want me to join a church? (regaining control)
Christian: Well, that's part of it. But let's not jump ahead... (careful...)
Prospect: If it involves joining a church, I am not interested. (there, I said it)
Christian: Why would that be a problem? (this is going down hill fast)
Prospect: I don't want to join a church, or be a "Christian".
Christian: So, you are rejecting Christ? (gotcha)
Prospect: No. I am rejecting Christianity. (Yes, I will escape this encounter)
Christian: But... rejecting Christianity is the same as rejecting Christ. (???)
Prospect: I think Gandhi got it right. (now you are toast)
Christian: Say what? (Houston, we have a problem)
Prospect: Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. ..." (gotcha)
Christian: Well, you should focus on Jesus, not on Christians. (Mayday, Mayday...)
Prospect: Christianity obviously doesn't work. (winning this argument)
Christian: Well, it can... (going down fast)
Prospect: Sorry, I'm not interested. (ha, made short work of this)
Christian: There are consequences for rejecting Christ. (last ditch effort)
Prospect: Like going to hell? (I'm so done with this)
Christian: Well, yes... (gulp)
Prospect: I'm so done with this. Goodbye. (and good riddance)
Christian: (sigh)

[
 

Behold

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The parody below illustrates how the church
and Christians can stand in the way of someone
having a relationship with Jesus.

Your "Universalism" stands in the way of any person that you sell it too, as you are misleading them AWAY from Trusting in Christ., by telling them that they dont have to Trust in Christ before they die......to go to heaven.
Or you are telling them.....that "God will cause them to trust........no worries....... just keep waiting"..

So, you are the very one, your own Thread has called out and exposed. @St. SteVen
 

David Lamb

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First understand this..

Paul said......"WHO....has bewitched you".... so, that is Paul explaining Hebrews 13:9 that says that MEN like John Calvin are the BeWITCHERS.. the Spell Binders.. the devils.. who write "doctrines of devils"...... who use clever lies to deceive people, like you.
Paul wrote that in Galatians:

“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?” (Ga 3:1-3 NKJV)

So he is particularly addressing some in the Galatian church who it seems had started to believe that they were saved by their works. That is not something Calvin taught. Hebrews 13:9 doesn't mention bewitching:

“Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.” (Heb 13:9 NKJV)

The writer to Hebrews doesn't mention what the doctrines are. John Gill says the following in his commentary on that verse:

"Ver. 9. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines, &c.] The word "divers" may denote the variety and multitude of other doctrines; referring either to the various rites and ceremonies of the law, or to the traditions of the elders, or to the several doctrines of men, whether Jews or Gentiles; whereas the doctrine of the Scriptures, of Christ, and his apostles, is but one; it is uniform, and all of a piece; and so may likewise denote the disagreement of other doctrines with the perfections of God, the person and offices of Christ, the Scriptures of truth, the analogy of faith, and even with themselves: and "strange" doctrines may design such as were never taught by God, nor are agreeable to the voice of Christ, nor to be found in the word of God; and which are new, and unheard of, by the apostles and churches of Christ; and appear in a foreign dress and habit: wherefore the apostle exhorts the believing Hebrews not to be "carried about with them"; as light clouds and meteors in the air, by every wind: for so to be, is to be like children; and discovers great ignorance, credulity, levity, inconstancy, uncertainty, fluctuation, and inconsistency:"

Now, as Gill had Calvinistic beliefs, I am sure he wasn't saying that the divers and strange doctrines meant Calvinism.
What Calvin did was predestine God's Foreknowledge............and that twisted it.. And from there Calvin pre-destines what isn't predestined in the New Testament...., and that is the core rot of His Satanic Theology.

So, all those like Calvin, who "bewitch".. are doing it on behalf of demonic power.... always.. as that is how it DECEIVES you.

Now...You need to post something that shows you are cognizant of how deception works... as you seem to be oblivious to the realtiy of Theological deception@Bruce-Leiter .

Let me show you what i mean..

Lets say you are talking to a JW or a MORMON.. and they say.....>>"Prove what i believe is not true'.

So, that is not going to happen, as they BELIEVE IT.......they are DECEIVED...so, you can't prove to this mindset....
All that can happen, is that you plant seeds in them, and then God has to take it from there.

Understand....Im not here because of you........im not talking to you or Ronald, or the other Calvin Dealers, for their sake......or yours.
You are entrenched,... you have a stronghold in you MIND, that is CALVINISM... So, that is a deep deep deception.. that you've had for many years.. so, its not going to let go, unless you decide to get it out.

So, what i do, is talk to the deceived calvinists so that the members on a forum can watch how you and the rest.... work so hard to try to try to prove Cross denying Lies., that are the Doctrine of J.Calvin.....
That is what im doing here, and that is what you are doing here.
The trouble is that you seem to tell Calvinist what they believe, based on your understanding of Calvinism, which often is not what Calvinists believe at all. I and others who believe the Doctrines of Grace (or Calvinism, to use the term you use) are found in Scripture, sometimes points out that we don't believe what you accuse us of believing, but you don't seem willing to accept what we say. I wonder how you would feel if another poster misrepresented your beliefs, and refused to take any notice when you attempted to correct them?
 

Behold

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So he is particularly addressing some in the Galatian church who it seems had started to believe that they were saved by their works.

IN case you want to realize this.....at least half of the people on this very Forum are trying to keep themselves saved by their works (behavior) and commandment keeping..

Everyone who "hates OSAS" is one of those people.....

See that?

That is "Fallen from Grace" as Paul defines a Christian who is "in the Flesh".....>>"Bewtiched"

Hebrews 13:9 doesn't mention bewitching:

In Hebrews 13:9 (KJV) you have 2 parts to the verse.

You had the strong admonition to "establish your heart with Grace" and then the 2nd part of the verse, describes what happens to the Christian, who doesn't .
You will be deceived by a "Doctrine of Devils"..

Paul explains this as ""'WHO.. = has BEWITCHED YOU, that you no longer obey the Truth".

So, that LIST of deceivers......or the "WHO".......

Calvin
Mary Cult
Mormon
JW


= on and on. A very long list of "WHO".
 

David Lamb

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IN case you want to realize this.....at least half of the people on this very Forum are trying to keep themselves saved by their works (behavior) and commandment keeping..

Everyone who "hates OSAS" is one of those people.....

See that?

That is "Fallen from Grace" as Paul defines a Christian who is "in the Flesh".....>>"Bewtiched"



In Hebrews 13:9 (KJV) you have 2 parts to the verse.

You had the strong admonition to "establish your heart with Grace" and then the 2nd part of the verse, describes what happens to the Christian, who doesn't .
You will be deceived by a "Doctrine of Devils"..

Paul explains this as ""'WHO.. = has BEWITCHED YOU, that you no longer obey the Truth".

So, that LIST of deceivers......or the "WHO".......

Calvin
Mary Cult
Mormon
JW


= on and on. A very long list of "WHO".
Calvin hasn't deceived me. I believed the doctrines of grace before I had heard of Calvin or Calvinism. To equate doctrines which many genuine, blood-bought Christians believe to the Mary Cult, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witnesses is just not right.
 
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David Lamb

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The term, "doctrines of Grace" was created by Calvin's disciples.
So, this is not found in a Bible.....its only found as the TITLE of their teaching.
Wake up.
But we all use words and phrases that are not found in the bible. The phrases "missionary work," "prayer meeting," and "children's outreach" are not found in the bible, but they are not wrong. Words and phrases are only wrong if what they refer to is wrong. The word "doctrine" means "teaching." So "Doctrines of Grace simply refers to teachings about God's grace, as for example, Paul's teaching found in Ephesians 2.
 

Behold

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But we all use words and phrases that are not found in the bible.

You are pretending you knew that TITLE, just from reading the bible.
You've stated this more then 2x on this Forum, and you never learned that Hyper Calvinism THEORY "title", until you read some of its teaching or some Deceiving Calvinist taught you.
 

David Lamb

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You are pretending you knew that TITLE, just from reading the bible.
You've stated this more then 2x on this Forum, and you never learned that Hyper Calvinism THEORY "title", until you read some of its teaching or some Deceiving Calvinist taught you.
No I am not pretending anything. I'm saying that I came to believe those teachings about salvation being by God's grace, which I later found are known as the Doctrines of Grace, from reading the bible. No "deceiving Calvinist" taught me such things.
 

Behold

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No I am not pretending anything.

You used the Hyper Calvinism term.. "the Doctrines of Grace" quite a few times now... and you falsely pretend you didnt learn that title and those specific teaching from that CULT Theology. .. TULIP.
You most certainly did. , same as every other decieved Tulip-Head that uses that Specific TERMINOLOGY.
 

David Lamb

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You used the Hyper Calvinism term.. "the Doctrines of Grace" quite a few times now... and you falsely pretend you didnt learn that title and those specific teaching from that CULT Theology. .. TULIP.
You most certainly did. , same as every other decieved Tulip-Head that uses that Specific TERMINOLOGY.
"Doctrines of Grace" is not a term of Hyper-Calvinism. Many who espouse Calvinistic doctrines use the term. What do you think is "Hyper-Calvinistic" about it?
 

Behold

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"Doctrines of Grace" is not a term of Hyper-Calvinism.

"Doctrines of Grace" is a false title, initually, as there is "The Gospel of the Grace of God" that is the doctrine = "Justification by Faith".

That is the DOCTINE..........that started with JOB, and continued throuigh Abraham, and is taught specifically as Paul's Doctrine of "Grace".

= """""The Gospel of THE GRACE........of God.""""

"Doctrines" of Grace is a false theology....created by a Devil and his Disciples that owns YOUR MIND.
This is why you are always trying to get your Calvinism "out there" on this Forum.. as that is your Religion.
Its not Paul's Theology.

See you are just one more Calvinist trying to lead people to Calvin.

God does not do that, as only Calvinists try to lead people to Calvin.

Christians lead people to CHRIST.

Calvinism is NOT Christianity..........and that is why its spelled : CALVINISM.
 

Bruce-Leiter

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First understand this..

Paul said......"WHO....has bewitched you".... so, that is Paul explaining Hebrews 13:9 that says that MEN like John Calvin are the BeWITCHERS.. the Spell Binders.. the devils.. who write "doctrines of devils"...... who use clever lies to deceive people, like you.

What Calvin did was predestine God's Foreknowledge............and that twisted it.. And from there Calvin pre-destines what isn't predestined in the New Testament...., and that is the core rot of His Satanic Theology.

So, all those like Calvin, who "bewitch".. are doing it on behalf of demonic power.... always.. as that is how it DECEIVES you.

Now...You need to post something that shows you are cognizant of how deception works... as you seem to be oblivious to the realtiy of Theological deception@Bruce-Leiter .

Let me show you what i mean..

Lets say you are talking to a JW or a MORMON.. and they say.....>>"Prove what i believe is not true'.

So, that is not going to happen, as they BELIEVE IT.......they are DECEIVED...so, you can't prove to this mindset....
All that can happen, is that you plant seeds in them, and then God has to take it from there.

Understand....Im not here because of you........im not talking to you or Ronald, or the other Calvin Dealers, for their sake......or yours.
You are entrenched,... you have a stronghold in you MIND, that is CALVINISM... So, that is a deep deep deception.. that you've had for many years.. so, its not going to let go, unless you decide to get it out.

So, what i do, is talk to the deceived calvinists so that the members on a forum can watch how you and the rest.... work so hard to try to try to prove Cross denying Lies., that are the Doctrine of J.Calvin.....
That is what im doing here, and that is what you are doing here.
Why do you characterize John Calvin's interpretations of the Bible as "Satanic," "core rot," "bewitching," "deception," and "demonic power"? Why do you use such loaded, emotional words to describe a different interpretation from yours? Tell me so that I can understand your extremely emotional reaction to Calvin's ideas.

As far as I can see, your differences with his theology boil down to the meaning of one biblical word "foreknowledge," as you seem to acknowledge. I am now writing a Bible survey on the word "know," its biblical meaning, and its counterparts in the Bible. Stay tuned for my book, which will be titled Grow To Know God: A Practical Bible Survey when it is published later this year. To call a belief system "Satanic" just because you disagree on the meaning of one word in the Bible seems to be a little extreme, don't you think, @Behold?
 

Behold

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Why do you characterize John Calvin's interpretations of the Bible as "Satanic,"

Good question.

It all comes down to "limited atonement", as this Rejects and Denies How God offers Jesus's Blood Atonement.

Any teaching that does not agree with Paul's Gospel, that is "justification by faith" to all who : BELIEVE.........and changes this to....."God predestines all this".. "God causes all this"... "The person has no choice'... "The Person can't believe".... this = eliminates a person's FAITH, as their own., and God requires OUR FAITH...
So, when that is denied then The Gospel itself is denied, and that is Satanic, and Paul uses the word "CURSED" when describing it.
Galatians 1:8
So, this Lie is revealed against The Cross, and that makes this Theology an "enemy of the Cross".
See, ts an Insult to Jesus's Sacrifice when a theology denies that "Jesus came into the World to save sinners" and this is changed into "came only for the predestined". "who were prechosen" and if you are not, then God blames you all the way to Hell for being a Christ rejector, and He is the one who would not let you believe.......would not choose you.
So, that is Theological insanity, and people who believe it, have a Hyper Calvinism = spiritual and mental infection that does not allow them to SEE it.

A.) Deception BLINDS The MIND.

Look at Revelation 3:20 that denies that a person is "too depraved to have faith in Christ".

The verse says that Jesus stands at the door (of your heart) and YOU open it to Him.

That is YOUR CHOOSING........not God causing or "predestining".

Whereas a demonic cult theology says, that you are too depraved to open it, so God has to force it open, by predestination.
And that's a "doctrine of devils".
Hebrews 13:9 (KJV).
 
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David Lamb

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"Doctrines of Grace" is a false title, initually, as there is "The Gospel of the Grace of God" that is the doctrine = "Justification by Faith".

That is the DOCTINE..........that started with JOB, and continued throuigh Abraham, and is taught specifically as Paul's Doctrine of "Grace".

= """""The Gospel of THE GRACE........of God.""""

"Doctrines" of Grace is a false theology....created by a Devil and his Disciples that owns YOUR MIND.
This is why you are always trying to get your Calvinism "out there" on this Forum.. as that is your Religion.
Its not Paul's Theology.

See you are just one more Calvinist trying to lead people to Calvin.

God does not do that, as only Calvinists try to lead people to Calvin.

Christians lead people to CHRIST.

Calvinism is NOT Christianity..........and that is why its spelled : CALVINISM.
Bute Doctrines simply means teachings, so doctrines of grace are bible teachings about the grace of God.