Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

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David in NJ

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I have no idea why you feel the need to continue this. See James 2:10 and I think you should move on . Best wishes always
It is extremely important that you share with us how you came to that conclusion of sabbath breaker is as guilty as a murderer.

If we are in danger of judgment I want to know so that I am not found guilty of disobeying God and the saturday sabbath.
 
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pandaflower

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It is extremely important that you share with us how you came to that conclusion of sabbath breaker is a guilty as a murderer.

If we are in danger of judgment I want to know so that I am not found guilty of disobeying God and the saturday sabbath.
I've known some who insist all sin is equal in being a great affront to God.
A shoplifter is as guilty in sin as is a murderer.

It can't be substantiated by any scriptures I've sought out. However,that is what some believe.

If that helps.
 
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David in NJ

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I have no idea why you feel the need to continue this. See James 2:10 and I think you should move on . Best wishes always
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

This speaks of the "whole law", meaning the law of Moses - correct???
 

David in NJ

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I've known some who insist all sin is equal in being a great affront to God.
A shoplifter is as guilty in sin as is a murderer.

It can't be substantiated by any scriptures I've sought out. However,that is what some believe.

If that helps.
Under the law of Moses, someone who stole would have to make restitution but never be put to death as being equal to murder.
 
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CTK

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It is extremely important that you share with us how you came to that conclusion of sabbath breaker is as guilty as a murderer.

If we are in danger of judgment I want to know so that I am not found guilty of disobeying God and the saturday sabbath.
Do you believe you should keep the 10 commandments?
Do you believe that all fall short ?
Do you believe that God forgives?
Do you believe that God knows what is in your heart?
Do you really need anything more than this to come to your decision regarding the Sabbath?
What I believe is of no consequence to you. It is what I believe what the Scriptures tell me. I am very comfortable with my decision on the 10. I am sure you will be able to decide for yourself whether you should honor The Sabbath or not. Remember, you have access to His Word and also to the Holy Spirit who will never steer you wrong.

But maybe you might do your own study on James 2:10-11 and perhaps other related verses. Best wishes…
 

CTK

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James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

This speaks of the "whole law", meaning the law of Moses - correct???
Can you pick and choose which of the 10 you want to obey? Is there anywhere in scripture that God allows you to select from His 10 Commandments and treat as a “cafeteria plan?”

If God wrote them with His own finger do you think they were important to Him ?

To God, breaking any one of HIS 10 purposefully and having no intention of repenting is telling Him that you are willing to obey only 9 of His commandments. It doesn’t have to be the 4th, it could be the 6th or it could be the 2nd where the Catholics contend they can have / worship idols.

Meaning, anyone could select only those commandments they want to obey… that is where James 2:10-11 comes in. They are not his 10 suggestions are they?
 

David in NJ

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Can you pick and choose which of the 10 you want to obey? Is there anywhere in scripture that God allows you to select from His 10 Commandments and treat as a “cafeteria plan?”

If God wrote them with His own finger do you think they were important to Him ?

To God, breaking any one of HIS 10 purposefully and having no intention of repenting is telling Him that you are willing to obey only 9 of His commandments. It doesn’t have to be the 4th, it could be the 6th or it could be the 2nd where the Catholics contend they can have / worship idols.

Meaning, anyone could select only those commandments they want to obey… that is where James 2:10-11 comes in. They are not his 10 suggestions are they?
AGREE = We cannot pick and choose which of the 10 we are to obey.

Where did you get the murderer equivalent to skipping out on a saturday?

Is there a particular passage or verse in the bible where you derived this from?
If so please post it for us.

Thank You
 

CTK

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AGREE = We cannot pick and choose which of the 10 we are to obey.

Where did you get the murderer equivalent to skipping out on a saturday?

Is there a particular passage or verse in the bible where you derived this from?
If so please post it for us.

Thank You
I just gave you all you need to know.... and I think you know that.... thanks so much.
 

David in NJ

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I just gave you all you need to know.... and I think you know that.... thanks so much.
Well, you have made me highly suspicious that you may be involved in things such a OT religious nature that you have separated from the Body of Christ and are going backwards to the Law.
 

CTK

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Well, you have made me highly suspicious that you may be involved in things such a OT religious nature that you have separated from the Body of Christ and are going backwards to the Law.
Thanks for your response and best wishes always.
 

David in NJ

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I heard a great quote about the ten commandments, but I can't remember who said it:

"The ten commandments are commandments, they are not called 'the ten suggestions'"
The discussion is on whether the 4th Commandment is to be observed as in saturday sabbath = Exodus 31:12-17
or
Did the Lord Jesus Christ, aka 'The LORD of the Sabbath', fulfill the 4th Commandment and if so, is it written that HE did?
 

CTK

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I heard a great quote about the ten commandments, but I can't remember who said it:

"The ten commandments are commandments, they are not called 'the ten suggestions'"


1. Jesus kept the Sabbath during His earthly life. Throughout the Gospels, we see Jesus consistently observing the Sabbath:

Luke 4:16 – “So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.”

This shows that Jesus regularly attended synagogue services on the Sabbath—it was His custom.

Mark 1:21; Luke 6:6; Luke 13:10 – These passages further confirm that Jesus taught in synagogues on the Sabbath. He treated the Sabbath not as a burdensome rule, but as a time of instruction, healing, and connection with God.​

John 5:16–17 – When accused of healing on the Sabbath, Jesus replied: “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”​

This doesn’t mean Jesus broke the Sabbath—it means He kept it in line with the Father’s will. He emphasized that doing good, especially acts of mercy, is lawful on the Sabbath (see also Matthew 12:10–12).

2. Jesus clarified and elevated the true meaning of the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:8 – “For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Jesus declared His authority over the Sabbath—not to abolish it (Matthew 5:17), but to restore its intended purpose. The Sabbath was made for man’s benefit (Mark 2:27), and Jesus demonstrated that it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:4–5). He confronted man-made additions and burdens that religious leaders had placed on the Sabbath, but He never violated the command itself. In fact, by healing, teaching, and resting in accordance with God’s will, He showed what true Sabbath observance looked like.

3. Jesus fulfilled all the Law, including the Sabbath command.

Matthew 5:17 – “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus fulfilled the Law perfectly—not just the moral requirements (like not stealing or murdering), but the spiritual intent of every command, including the fourth.

Hebrews 4:15 – “He was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.”

If Jesus had broken the Sabbath, He would not be sinless. But He remained without sin, proving that His Sabbath observance was in perfect harmony with God’s command.

4. Jesus’ death and rest in the tomb symbolically fulfilled the Sabbath. The Sabbath commandment includes not only worship but rest—a ceasing from labor.

Luke 23:54–56 – After Jesus died, His followers rested on the Sabbath “according to the commandment.” Jesus Himself “rested” in the tomb during this Sabbath, completing His redemptive work just as God rested on the seventh day after creation (Genesis 2:2–3).
This act symbolically fulfilled the deepest meaning of the Sabbath: entering into God’s finished work.

5. This aligns with His words in John 17:4:

I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.”

But it's important to understand that “fulfillment” does not mean cancellation. When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law (Matthew 5:17), He was not declaring it obsolete. Rather, He brought the Law to its full meaning, embodying it completely and showing us how to live it out by faith and love.

Likewise, the idea that we now "rest in Christ" spiritually does not mean that the Sabbath commandment has been abolished. Jesus’ rest in the tomb on the seventh day affirms the Sabbath as a continuing part of God’s rhythm and purpose. The Sabbath remains a divine gift, a sacred time set apart for worship, rest, and restoration—not merely a shadow, but a living memorial of both creation and redemption. To rest in Christ is not to abandon the Sabbath, but to enter it more fully.
 

MatthewG

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A Theological Reflection on the Law and Its Intended Audience

The Ten Commandments were originally given to the nation of Israel and were not directed toward Gentiles. It is a misunderstanding to assume that these laws were intended for all people. While individuals may choose to observe practices such as the Sabbath or the New Moon, such observances are voluntary and not required of Gentile believers.

Based on thorough study, there is no evidence that the Mosaic Law was prescribed for Gentiles. Rather, the guiding standard for all believers is the Law of Christ.

The “Law of Christ,” referenced in Galatians 6:2 and 1 Corinthians 9:21, centers on the ethical teachings of Jesus—chiefly, the command to love God and love one’s neighbor. Unlike the Mosaic Law, which consists of a detailed set of rules and ordinances, the Law of Christ is a principle rooted in love, grace, and relational integrity.

This law is perfectly embodied in Yeshua (Jesus), who fulfilled the Mosaic Law through His perfect love for God and others. Believers who choose to walk by the Spirit of Christ are empowered to live lives that reflect this love. The works produced through the Spirit are naturally aligned with the command to love God and to love one’s neighbor—just as Christ did, flawlessly.

It is also worth noting that the Law of Moses, when presented to the twelve tribes of Israel, was always accompanied by blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. This further underscores its covenantal nature with Israel, not a universal mandate.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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given to the nation of Israel and were not directed toward Gentiles

So the Lord is all good with gentiles, lying, stealing, doing adultery, murdering, etc, etc.
Only the OSAS heretics claim people can live in grievous sin before the Lord and still be saved.

They shall be shocked when the die someday and go south instead of north.

Too bad you don't know much about the New Testament not knowing the 10 commandments were included in the Law of Christ which is what we live under now - well, those that actually love the Lord and aren't playing carnal religious games

The bottom line is, if a person is born again and being led by the Holy Spirit they will keep the 10 Commandments and the sabbath is abiding IN Christ 24/7 and is not going to church on Saturday.
 
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CTK

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A Theological Reflection on the Law and Its Intended Audience

The Ten Commandments were originally given to the nation of Israel and were not directed toward Gentiles. It is a misunderstanding to assume that these laws were intended for all people. While individuals may choose to observe practices such as the Sabbath or the New Moon, such observances are voluntary and not required of Gentile believers.

Based on thorough study, there is no evidence that the Mosaic Law was prescribed for Gentiles. Rather, the guiding standard for all believers is the Law of Christ.

The “Law of Christ,” referenced in Galatians 6:2 and 1 Corinthians 9:21, centers on the ethical teachings of Jesus—chiefly, the command to love God and love one’s neighbor. Unlike the Mosaic Law, which consists of a detailed set of rules and ordinances, the Law of Christ is a principle rooted in love, grace, and relational integrity.

This law is perfectly embodied in Yeshua (Jesus), who fulfilled the Mosaic Law through His perfect love for God and others. Believers who choose to walk by the Spirit of Christ are empowered to live lives that reflect this love. The works produced through the Spirit are naturally aligned with the command to love God and to love one’s neighbor—just as Christ did, flawlessly.

It is also worth noting that the Law of Moses, when presented to the twelve tribes of Israel, was always accompanied by blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. This further underscores its covenantal nature with Israel, not a universal mandate.
Thanks for your response. I don't know anything about your thorough study, but did it include any of the scriptures I provided above? I will also respond tomorrow with some additional thoughts... best wishes.
 
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MatthewG

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Thanks for your response. I don't know anything about your thorough study, but did it include any of the scriptures I provided above? I will also respond tomorrow with some additional thoughts... best wishes.
Hello @CTK

This is simply my general response. Jesus came primarily to the Jewish people, not to the Gentiles. Many individuals interpret the biblical narrative to mean that we should follow Jesus’ teachings precisely as they were spoken, yet one key issue is that no one today can go to the temple—it has been destroyed.

Even so, Jesus did interact with individuals who were not Jewish. One particular instance that stands out is His conversation with the Samaritan woman. In that exchange, He revealed a profound truth about worship, saying:

“Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.”

This statement marks a pivotal shift, indicating that worship of the Father would no longer be tied to specific physical locations, but rather be centered on spirit and truth.
 

Zao is life

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NOTE: this post is about the ten commandments and Not about the rest of the law of Moses. Also God himself defined the covenant as the ten commandments,

Many today question whether the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant. Some believe they were temporary, pointing to writings that describe the law as a ministry that brought death and condemnation. But when we look deeper into the words of Jesus and the prophets, we find a different truth—one filled with life, purpose, and enduring glory.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:24-25).

The law that is written on the heart and put into the mind of the believer in Jesus (Jeremiah 31:31-34) requires that we go further and do what the shadow pointed to:

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28).

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." (Matthew 5:43-44).

The Mosaic covenant was 100% dependent on the people's obedience to the law - which includes the 10 commandments - and was based on the ten commandments - but they broke that covenant through their disobedience.

The Old Covenant vs. the New Covenant in a nutshell:

"31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

-- they broke the covenant by their disobedience because of human failure to obey the law and the 10 commandments --

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord,

I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

That New Covenant Law is the fruit of the Spirit of Christ in us (in those who truly believe), of which the written commandments are the shadow.

The fruit of the Spirit is not our fruit produced by our obedience to the ten commandments.


- and the New Covenant Law written on our hearts requires us to go a lot further than the 10 commandments required - because it's the fulfillment of the requirements of what is contained in the shadow.

Obedience to the shadow produces death
because the law exposes our sin and the wages of sin is death. Obedience to the Spirit can only come through faith in Christ, who said,

"3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

-- already cleansed by the Word of God, through faith in the word Jesus has spoken to us --

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without ME ye can do nothing." (John 15:3-5).

Without JESUS we can do NOTHING in terms of fulfilling God's law (which the ten commandments are the shadow of).

Jesus also said,

"28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30).

Reliance on OUR obedience to the 10 commandments rather than allowing them to lead us to Christ can only result in pride - and DOES only result in pride - because the 10 commandments WILL convict us of our sin and lead us to Christ,

as opposed to the law that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus writes on our hearts and put in our minds - which will prompt us to go further than the 10 commandments requires - because the fruit of the Spirit fulfills the law and the commandments.

The moment we start measuring our obedience to God BY our obedience to the written law and ten commandments, we fall from Christ and from grace. (Even worse when we measure our salvation by our obedience to the ten commandments).

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).

We do not cast away the ten commandments because that would be casting away scripture - but that does not mean that we start obeying commandments produced outwardly to get to God - we come to Jesus, the last Adam, the Son of man and the LORD our righteousness who has already fulfilled the law and the commandments - so that we can be obedient to His INWARDLY produced commandments, a.k.a the fruit of the Spirit (of life in Christ Jesus):

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:24-25).

This is what Jesus and His apostles taught - and anything else is false doctrine produced by false teachers who want to bring you back under a yoke of bondage.

When Jewish believers in Christ observe their cultural appointed times (the sabbath, Passover etc) then they are doing so because it's as much part of their cultural traditions as Christmas is to Gentiles. There's nothing wrong with that. Paul's whole statement about the circumcised not becoming "uncircumcised" and Gentiles not becoming circumcised etc is about the lack of need for Gentiles to make themselves Jews culturally, and vice versa. But Jewish believers in Yeshua are not required to come to God through obedience to law and commandments - they come to God the same way that any Gentile does - allowing the law and ten commandments to be the schoolmaster and shadow that leads them to Christ.
 
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LoveYeshua

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"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:24-25).

The law that is written on the heart and put into the mind of the believer in Jesus (Jeremiah 31:31-34) requires that we go further and do what the shadow pointed to:

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28).

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." (Matthew 5:43-44).

The Mosaic covenant was 100% dependent on the people's obedience to the law - which includes the 10 commandments - and was based on the ten commandments - but they broke that covenant through their disobedience.

The Old Covenant vs. the New Covenant in a nutshell:

"31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

-- they broke the covenant by their disobedience because of human failure to obey the law and the 10 commandments --

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord,

I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

That New Covenant Law is the fruit of the Spirit of Christ in us (in those who truly believe), of which the written commandments are the shadow.

The fruit of the Spirit is not our fruit produced by our obedience to the ten commandments.


- and the New Covenant Law written on our hearts requires us to go a lot further than the 10 commandments required - because it's the fulfillment of the requirements of what is contained in the shadow.

Obedience to the shadow produces death
because the law exposes our sin and the wages of sin is death. Obedience to the Spirit can only come through faith in Christ, who said,

"3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

-- already cleansed by the Word of God, through faith in the word Jesus has spoken to us --

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without ME ye can do nothing." (John 15:3-5).

You quote 2 Timothy and Galatians, but these are the words of Paul, not Jesus. And while all Scripture is indeed inspired by God, Jesus warned that not all who use Scripture understand it rightly. He said, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29). True understanding must come from what Jesus said, not what men later interpreted, especially when they contradict the words of the Master.

Jesus never said that the commandments were a shadow, or that obeying them leads to death. In fact, He said the opposite. He said: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). That is not a shadow. That is the path to life, spoken by the One who has the words of eternal life. He also said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill… Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:17,19). These are His own words.

You said the law only leads to death. But Jesus said, “Blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it” (Luke 11:28). He also said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15), and again, “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me” (John 14:21). There is no room in His words for casting the commandments aside or calling them a burden or a shadow. Jesus never called them that. Instead, He explained them deeply and spiritually, just like you quoted from Matthew 5. But that was not to replace the commandments; it was to show their full meaning—written not just in stone, but also in the heart.

You said the commandments were broken, so the covenant was replaced. But Jeremiah never said God would remove His law—He said, “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts” (Jeremiah 31:33). The same law. The same commandments. Written now inside, not just outside. If God’s law is written in your heart, will you steal? Will you kill? Will you forget the Sabbath? No. You will obey because it is part of you. That is what Jesus taught: inner obedience that comes from a clean heart. The law is not abolished; it is fulfilled in a life that walks like Jesus walked.

You said the new law is the fruit of the Spirit. But Jesus said “every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Matthew 7:19). What is good fruit? It is obedience to God's will. He said plainly, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). The Father's will is in His commandments. You quoted Jesus saying “Without Me you can do nothing”. Yes—and that includes obeying the commandments. But being able to do nothing without Him does not mean you do nothing. He empowers obedience. Jesus said, “Abide in Me… If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (John 15:4,10). He did not say to leave the commandments aside. He said to keep them, by His strength.

You also said relying on obedience leads to pride. But Jesus never taught that. He praised obedience and humility. He said, “When you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants’” (Luke 17:10). True obedience leads to humility, not pride.
And finally, Jesus did not teach that obedience to the law separates us from grace. He said the opposite: “Whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19). Obedience is not the opposite of faith—it is its fruit. Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me” (John 10:27). Following Him means walking as He walked—in truth, in love, and in obedience to the Father’s commandments.

So if Jesus upheld the commandments, and the 11 disciples He sent out taught only what He commanded (Matthew 28:20), then any teaching—no matter how spiritual-sounding—that calls the commandments a shadow, or says we no longer need them, is not from Him. His words remain forever. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Matthew 24:35). Let us hear Him, not follow voices that twist His truth.
 
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