The mark of the beast as it pertains to Revelation 13 is not even relevant until those 2 beasts seen in that chapter are on the scene and working hand in hand with one another, whatever that might look like.
Whatever that might look like, he says. As if you have any idea of what the beast is. You can't even offer a guess. Why should anyone take you seriously at all about anything you say in relation to the beast?
Also, after reading the rest of your post I can see that you did not specifically address anything I said in my post. Why?
What is your understanding of what the mark of the beast is exactly? Do you understand that anyone who has it and doesn't repent will end up in the lake of fire (Rev 14:9-11)? That shows that it relates directly to salvation and is a mark which indicates that someone is not saved. It is the spiritual opposite of the seal of God, which is the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30). What is it in reality that marks a person as not being saved? A physical mark? No. It's when someone loves the world instead of God and when someone refuses to repent of their sins and believe in Christ. So, what does that tell you about what the mark of the beast is and what it represents?
When John provided the visions he indicated the beast was in the pit at the time.
So what? You don't understand what it means for the beast, the dragon (Satan), or the locusts (fallen angels/demons) to be in the pit. It does not cause anyone or anything to be incapacitated. Despite the beast being in the pit at the time John wrote the book, one of its heads was active at the time, proving that the beast was not completely incapacitated, as you imagine.
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
The seven heads represent historical kingdoms/world empires, five of which had fallen previous to John writing the book. The one that "is" was the Roman empire. Do you think the Roman empire was completely incapacitated when John wrote the book?
Revelation 13 is meaning once the beast ascends out of the pit. Even the following proves I am correct about when the mark is relevant.
Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
It's your assumption that all of the vials are poured out after the seventh trumpet sounds, but I disagree. The seventh and last trumpet is when Jesus returns and the dead are raised (1 Cor 15:50-54) , so how can there be time for all of the vials to be poured out after that? The seventh trumpet signals the time that the kingdom(s) of the world have become the kingdom(s) of God the Father and the Son, the time for those who destroy the earth to be destroyed and it signals the time of the dead to be judged, which is described in Revelation 20:11-15 as occurring AFTER the thousand years. So, explain to me how it is possible for the second vial to be poured out after the seventh trumpet? No, the seventh vial is parallel to the seventh trumpet.
Scripture answers questions, speculation doesn't.
Right, but your entire doctrine is based on speculation. You have no clear, straightforward scriptures at all that you base your doctrine on. That's why you spend all of your time here speculating.
Therefore, it must be asked, what mark, what image? Let's go to Revelation 13 and see if we can find out.
Let's start with the following verses.
Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
From these verses alone, do we know what mark and what image is meant? No.
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
What about from these verses? Do we know what mark and what image is meant? Yes.
Oh, really? Why don't you describe what you think they mean then?
It's clear to me that the mark of the beast is the spiritual counterpart to the seal of God, which is the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30). All whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast (Rev 13:8) and have the mark of the beast. It's a spiritual mark which indicates that someone is lost and will end up in the lake of fire if they don't repent (Rev 14:9-11). It's said to be on the right hand or on foreheads because the right hand represents one's actions and the forehead represents one's beliefs.
Therefore, this undeniably proves there is no image or no mark before verses 14-17 are fulfilled first.
Yeah, so? It's your assumption that it's all about the future, but that's all that is. Your assumption. The book of Revelation is not a futurist book. It has things about the past (from the time it was written), current things (at the time it was written) and things that would happen after that up until the second coming of Christ and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth.
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
If there was already a mark and an image before verses 14-17 are fulfilled, it renders these verses nonsensical.
But, the question is when are those verses fulfilled? You think it's in the future, but that's based on your false futurist perspective of a book that is not just about the future.
As in, what is the point of verse 14 if there already is an image? If someone said that you should build a house on that empty lot, would anyone think there is already a house there? Or would they think there is not already a house there until we build one first? Now apply that same logic to this--that they should make an image to the beast.
There's no reason to take anything you say about the beast seriously unless you can explain what you think the beast represents. Can you do that?
