Who Are God’s Chosen People?

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LoveYeshua

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Quoting the scripture doesn’t make a difference when Jesus was coming shortly in Revelation though? This is the stand point I stand from.
Matthew just want to address the point you made about saying in revelation that he comes quickly;
In Revelation 22:12, Jesus says, “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” Some might misunderstand this verse and claim that Jesus has already returned because He said, “I come quickly.” But this belief is not supported by the rest of Scripture and does not fit with what Jesus Himself said about His return.

First, we must understand that God's way of measuring time is not the same as ours. Peter, one of Jesus’ closest disciples, reminded believers that with the Lord, one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day. So when Jesus says “quickly,” He doesn’t mean it in the way humans count time. When Jesus said this is was as GOD in heaven not in in human form. Rather, He means that when the time comes, His return will happen suddenly, without delay, and with great power. God is patient, not slow, giving people time to repent before the final day arrives.

Second, the way Jesus described His return shows clearly that it has not happened yet. He said that just like lightning flashes across the whole sky, so will His coming be—seen by all, undeniable, and full of glory. He also said that all the tribes of the earth would mourn as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with great power. This is not a quiet or invisible return. If Jesus had already come, the entire world would know. The righteous would be gathered, the wicked judged, and all creation changed. None of this has happened yet.

Another proof is the resurrection of the dead, which Jesus said will happen when He returns. He declared that a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and rise—some to life and some to condemnation. This resurrection is tied directly to the reward He speaks of in Revelation 22:12. Since the dead have not been raised and the final judgment has not taken place, His coming is still in the future.

Jesus even warned us ahead of time not to be deceived. He said that false teachers would arise, saying things like “Here is the Christ” or “There He is.” But Jesus said not to believe them. He warned that many will try to deceive people into thinking He has already come. But when He really comes, it will be clear to all—there will be no doubt, no secret return.

Even in the very last verses of Revelation, after saying He is coming quickly, Jesus repeats, “Surely I am coming quickly,” and John responds, “Even so, come, Lord Jesus!” This response shows that Jesus had not come yet, even at the end of the vision. If He had already returned, there would be no need for that plea.

The idea that Jesus already returned goes against His own words and the full message of the Bible. His second coming is a future event that will shake the heavens and the earth. It will bring resurrection, judgment, and the reward for every person according to their works. We are still waiting for that day. Until then, we must live in faith, keep His commandments, and stay awake, as He told us to, because we do not know the day or the hour when the Son of Man will come.

Please do not fall in the traps evil has set before you.
 
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MatthewG

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Matthew just want to address the point you made about saying in revelation that he comes quickly;
In Revelation 22:12, Jesus says, “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” Some might misunderstand this verse and claim that Jesus has already returned because He said, “I come quickly.” But this belief is not supported by the rest of Scripture and does not fit with what Jesus Himself said about His return.

First, we must understand that God's way of measuring time is not the same as ours. Peter, one of Jesus’ closest disciples, reminded believers that with the Lord, one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day. So when Jesus says “quickly,” He doesn’t mean it in the way humans count time. When Jesus said this is was as GOD in heaven not in in human form. Rather, He means that when the time comes, His return will happen suddenly, without delay, and with great power. God is patient, not slow, giving people time to repent before the final day arrives.

Second, the way Jesus described His return shows clearly that it has not happened yet. He said that just like lightning flashes across the whole sky, so will His coming be—seen by all, undeniable, and full of glory. He also said that all the tribes of the earth would mourn as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with great power. This is not a quiet or invisible return. If Jesus had already come, the entire world would know. The righteous would be gathered, the wicked judged, and all creation changed. None of this has happened yet.

Another proof is the resurrection of the dead, which Jesus said will happen when He returns. He declared that a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and rise—some to life and some to condemnation. This resurrection is tied directly to the reward He speaks of in Revelation 22:12. Since the dead have not been raised and the final judgment has not taken place, His coming is still in the future.

Jesus even warned us ahead of time not to be deceived. He said that false teachers would arise, saying things like “Here is the Christ” or “There He is.” But Jesus said not to believe them. He warned that many will try to deceive people into thinking He has already come. But when He really comes, it will be clear to all—there will be no doubt, no secret return.

Even in the very last verses of Revelation, after saying He is coming quickly, Jesus repeats, “Surely I am coming quickly,” and John responds, “Even so, come, Lord Jesus!” This response shows that Jesus had not come yet, even at the end of the vision. If He had already returned, there would be no need for that plea.

The idea that Jesus already returned goes against His own words and the full message of the Bible. His second coming is a future event that will shake the heavens and the earth. It will bring resurrection, judgment, and the reward for every person according to their works. We are still waiting for that day. Until then, we must live in faith, keep His commandments, and stay awake, as He told us to, because we do not know the day or the hour when the Son of Man will come.

Please do not fall in the traps evil has set before you.

Hello @LoveYeshua,

Hey there, I just wanted to share my perspective clearly. I've held the belief for the past four years that Jesus has already returned. I understand that not everyone sees it the same way, and that's completely between you and your Creator. I don't feel the need to continually preach that "Jesus is coming soon," like many churches still do—because in my understanding, He's already come.

If that weren’t true, it would raise hard questions about Jesus’ own words and those of the Apostles. And if their message wasn’t trustworthy, it would cast doubt on using the Bible at all. That’s why I stand firm in what I believe.

I’ll admit, I didn’t read your full message—it was a bit lengthy—but I still respect where you’re coming from. I’ve got nothing but respect for everyone in this community, even when our views differ. So if you don’t agree with me, that’s totally fair and understandable.

What I don’t appreciate is when someone suggests I’m out of line just for expressing my interpretation, especially when Revelation speaks of Christ's coming to those seven churches in that generation, and Jesus Himself addressed those alive in His day.

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out.
 
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MatthewG

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Matthew, you have been mislead with a mixture of truth and lies, rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you not the words of men.
Hello LoveYeshua,

What you're engaging in appears to be a form of gaslighting.

Disagreeing or not fully understanding a perspective does not warrant an attempt to correct someone else's beliefs. Each individual is entitled to their own convictions, particularly when it comes to matters of faith.

From my standpoint, either Jesus was truthful in what He said, or the integrity of the Bible as a whole is called into question. Unfortunately, many continue to misinterpret or misapply its teachings even today.
 

MatthewG

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Here's a link to MatthewG's source: TGNN. This is just one of several websites this organization runs.

Is it a cult? It has several aspects that raise red flags to me.
  • It has one man (Shawn McCraney) who determines the organization's theology.
  • It promotes an unusual eschatology (Fully-realized preterism).
  • Another distinctive is an insistence on using the Hebrew names for God ("Yehava") and Jesus ("Yeshua"), and the anglicization of the Tetragrammaton is not the generally accepted "Yahweh" or even the KJV-approved "Jehovah".
@MatthewG, you're a grown-up and I'm nobody's dad and you're going to do what you want anyway, but please be careful with this McCraney guy. Beware of gurus. They'll steal your freedom.

Hello @Lambano

The term "Cult" here is used intentionally as a play on words—an acronym for Christian Ultra-Libertarians for Truth.

To clarify my position: My faith is not placed in Shawn or any other individual, but solely in Jesus the Messiah. My trust rests in the words and promises found in Scripture.

Much like Paul in his time, I find myself compelled to respond and explain my beliefs. I consistently advocate for Yeshua as the solution, affirming the truth of what He promised. Still, I often encounter those who say, "You're wrong."

That’s okay with me. I’m not concerned with being proven right—I value the journey of sincere conviction more than being validated by others.




If a person wants to continue to believe that Jesus coming back soon, and you need to be prepared for it by all means that is your right as an individual.



A true cult, will take you away from your family, seclude you and most likely beat the heck out of you... You guys all watched what a cult truly can do... and they are completely abusive and manipulative, there are some churches like this out there to some degree or another Ive watched reports on them on youtube....


I come from a place where freedom is allowed, you have the freedom to choose for yourself, and believe whatever you are gonna want. I am just simply sharing a personal belief, that no one has to even accept. That is the difference.

No one should ever believe, Myself, Shawn, anyone that writes on this board, they need to be encouraged to go and read the bible for themselves and by the Spirit.
 
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LoveYeshua

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Hello LoveYeshua,

What you're engaging in appears to be a form of gaslighting.

Disagreeing or not fully understanding a perspective does not warrant an attempt to correct someone else's beliefs. Each individual is entitled to their own convictions, particularly when it comes to matters of faith.

From my standpoint, either Jesus was truthful in what He said, or the integrity of the Bible as a whole is called into question. Unfortunately, many continue to misinterpret or misapply its teachings even today.
the fact is scripture says contrary from your beliefs, seriously. trying to bring back someone on the right path with scriptural proof and not personal interpretation is not gaslighthing.

Jesus second return is ALWAYS associated with end times, that has clearly not happened. Also when Jesus returns he sets up the "millennium Kingdom" where is it? do you see Jesus right now guiding the earth ? Did ALL the lost tribes of Israel returned to the promised land? None of this have happened. Be careful what you believe.
 

Davy

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Please?

Please, stop imagining what you want it to be.

READ please....

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified.

Do you see it?

"those he called, he also justified."

Do you believe that God justifies unsaved people?
No.. only the saved he declares justified!



And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified.
Many are saved.

But, only a few of the many, have been
chosen to reign with Him!

grace and peace....

You are quoting Paul in Romans 8, which is actually about the 'chosen' who can never fall away, not for those who are 'called' only that can still fall away.


It is amazing how so many brethren have been sucked into man's false OSAS doctrine when Apostle Paul and Peter gave so many WARNINGS to brethren against falling away! It's like those New Testament Scriptures don't even exist in the Bibles of those on man's false OSAS doctrines!
 
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MatthewG

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the fact is scripture says contrary from your beliefs, seriously. trying to bring back someone on the right path with scriptural proof and not personal interpretation is not gaslighthing.
Jesus second return is ALWAYS associated with end times, that has clearly not happened. Also when Jesus returns he sets up the "millennium Kingdom" where is it? do you see Jesus right now guiding the earth ? Did ALL the lost tribes of Israel returned to the promised land? None of this have happened. Be careful what you believe.

Hello @LoveYeshua,

I recognize gaslighting when I encounter it, having faced it often enough to understand its patterns.

It’s difficult to reconcile the assertion that “Scripture stands contrary to your beliefs,” especially when Jesus Himself stated He was coming quickly. Yet, two thousand years have passed, and many still interpret His return as imminent in our present day. I respect that interpretation—it reflects what one personally hopes to be true—and that’s entirely your choice.

From my understanding, Jesus repeatedly explained the signs of the end of that age to the people of His time. He addressed them directly about both the end and His coming.

So the question is: whose guidance should I follow? Yours? Or the words of Yeshua and the Apostles? If their teachings did not come to pass for those they called the Bride of Christ—who were encouraged to wait patiently for His return—then we must seriously consider the implications. Were they truthful, or were they misrepresenting the promise?

That contrast is significant and worth thoughtful reflection.
 

LoveYeshua

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Hello @LoveYeshua,

I recognize gaslighting when I encounter it, having faced it often enough to understand its patterns.

It’s difficult to reconcile the assertion that “Scripture stands contrary to your beliefs,” especially when Jesus Himself stated He was coming quickly. Yet, two thousand years have passed, and many still interpret His return as imminent in our present day. I respect that interpretation—it reflects what one personally hopes to be true—and that’s entirely your choice.

From my understanding, Jesus repeatedly explained the signs of the end of that age to the people of His time. He addressed them directly about both the end and His coming.

So the question is: whose guidance should I follow? Yours? Or the words of Yeshua and the Apostles? If their teachings did not come to pass for those they called the Bride of Christ—who were encouraged to wait patiently for His return—then we must seriously consider the implications. Were they truthful, or were they misrepresenting the promise?

That contrast is significant and worth thoughtful reflection.
the words of Christ are clear just follow them, for the rest it's all your choice at the end. this is why we are here, God wants to see what we do and what we believe, he wants to know our heart.
 

MatthewG

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the words of Christ are cleat just follow them, for the rest it's all your choice at the end. this is why we are here, God wants to see what we do and what we believe, he wants to know our heart.
Hello LoveYeshua,

Alright then.

i posted scripture and he says it's not biblical !!!
Hello David,

If you are talking about me, I personally have had you on ignore for a long time so I never seen your post.
 

David in NJ

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Hello LoveYeshua,

Alright then.


Hello David,

If you are talking about me, I personally have had you on ignore for a long time so I never seen your post.
GeneZ rejected the scriptures

i have not read your posts except when you responded to mine
 

GeneZ

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Hello Genez,

It calls to mind the occasions when individuals asked Jesus for a sign, yet He responded by offering only the sign of the prophet Jonah. I am convinced that this sign found its fulfillment during the destruction of Jerusalem, and I adhere to that understanding through faith alone.

That’s perfectly acceptable. Yahavah does not require empirical proof—He is pleased by faith. While I may not possess tangible evidence, I hold firm in my belief. It is the sincerity of that faith that carries significance.



However, I am going to stop here from responding anymore as this is @LoveYeshua thread, and its not right for me to overtake it sometimes I get careless, cause of passion.
OK that answers the question I was really looking for..


Keep leading those who are gullible enough....
Enjoy your ditch.
 

GeneZ

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Matthew, you have been mislead with a mixture of truth and lies, rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you not the words of men.

the time set for Jesus second return has not happened yet, all prophecy link Jesus second return with the end times, we are now at the beginning of this end times but things will get much much worse from now on and eventually Christ will come and cleanse the world of sin and implement the Kingdom of heaven on earth but this has nor happened it is evident.

I am here if you want to discuss but I am certain of what i say here just trying to help you not yo fall in the traps placed before you.

Peace.
Leave him alone. Maybe pray he will find himself a way out of the ditch he is being led into.

It gets weird when they think that way....


blind leading the blind
Jesus' own words about His return make it clear that His coming will be a visible, dramatic event. In Matthew 24:29-31, He says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." This event will be visible to all people, not something hidden or secret.

Why keep talking?
When that is more than sufficient to deal with the "cosmic gaslighting" crew that gathers here.

Jesus' own words about His return make it clear that His coming will be a visible, dramatic event. In Matthew 24:29-31, He says,
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all
the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from
one end of heaven to the other." This event will be visible to all people, not something hidden or secret.

Well said!


The forum owner should be careful.
These folks can cause people to run away from this place.
Some forums have banned that kind of teaching.
Now I can see why.

When first entering, it looks like a cult is running it.
 
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GeneZ

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Here's a link to MatthewG's source: TGNN. This is just one of several websites this organization runs.

Is it a cult? It has several aspects that raise red flags to me.
  • It has one man (Shawn McCraney) who determines the organization's theology.
  • It promotes an unusual eschatology (Fully-realized preterism).
  • Another distinctive is an insistence on using the Hebrew names for God ("Yehava") and Jesus ("Yeshua"), and the anglicization of the Tetragrammaton is not the generally accepted "Yahweh" or even the KJV-approved "Jehovah".
@MatthewG, you're a grown-up and I'm nobody's dad and you're going to do what you want anyway, but please be careful with this McCraney guy. Beware of gurus. They'll steal your freedom.
OK... that explains it. My "sniffer" was picking it up, and now I see why.

I hope this place is not run by them.
 

MatthewG

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OK that answers the question I was really looking for..


Keep leading those who are gullible enough....
Enjoy your ditch.
Not sure why you so hostile… good grief.

All the best to you though!

Love you, silly monkey man! Even if you don’t believe it.
 
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GeneZ

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If only they would let the Holy Spirit guide them, they could know the truth, How unfortunate.

Peace brother.
They think they have the Holy Spirit.

It is just like gays who claim that God made them that way.
They are slaves to their personal desires, who bond with others who share the same attributes.


For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.


2 Timothy 4:3
 

LoveYeshua

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Leave him alone. Maybe pray he will find himself a way out of the ditch he is being led into.

It gets weird when they think that way....


blind leading the blind


Why keep talking?
When that is more than sufficient to deal with the "cosmic gaslighting" crew that gathers here.

Jesus' own words about His return make it clear that His coming will be a visible, dramatic event. In Matthew 24:29-31, He says,
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all
the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from
one end of heaven to the other." This event will be visible to all people, not something hidden or secret.

Well said!


The forum owner should be careful.
These folks can cause people to run away from this place.
Some forums have banned that kind of teaching.
Now I can see why.

When first entering, it looks like a cult is running it.
Yes my conclusion also, i try but if they persist I stop, but I agree this teaching is not from the bible but some believe it, I hope it's just a phase and that they will see the light, I prayed for that but it is God's will that will prevail.'

Blessings Gene