Only the Apostles were Predestined

[MatthewG]

Does anyone else think it a weird thing that Christian s would insist they weren't predestined by God to find him?

Especially since Jesus tells us,no one can come to him unless the father leads them.

Hello Panda,

I do not find it strange. In the Old Testament, there was a remnant of people who did not bow to Baal. God set them apart for His purposes:

1 Kings 19:18 – "Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

Similarly, there was a group predestined to be part of the bride of Christ. However, I do not personally assert that this specific designation continues in the same way today.

Often, those who embrace this path may develop a sense of spiritual superiority, believing they were chosen above others. This can lead to a prideful and condescending attitude, which I find concerning and misaligned with humility and love. Thus, from my perspective, it’s not unusual to challenge or reject that mindset.

If I were to declare myself "chosen," I would feel foolish. I believe I made a choice—one grounded in the gift of free will.

Additionally, I hold the view that Christ has already returned and gathered His bride—a group composed of faithful Jews and Gentiles of that time. Today, the decision remains clear: choose to live faithfully or choose otherwise.

Claiming to be chosen based solely on an interpretation risks self-deception. Ultimately, it is Yahavah who calls each of us daily—through the Spirit and through the witness of His creation. Many today respond to that call, not through pride, but by embodying love: loving their neighbor as themselves. The attitude of “God chose me, not you” reflects a distorted and harmful view of divine calling. That is not a path I endorse.

 

[MatthewG]

However, on the contrary. There are people whom sincerely believe they have been chosen, and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. One in the Spirit of Christ must continue to love them either way.

Thank you for the great question @pandaflower.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Does anyone else think it a weird thing that Christian s would insist they weren't predestined by God to find him?

Especially since Jesus tells us,no one can come to him unless the father leads them.

We are not all apostles, pf. Read John 6 slowly and see who walked away, but who stayed. The Apostles. They were the only ones who were predestined. You've been taught a lie. Read the Word for yourself. Are you a Calvinist? He was a murderer, so his fruit is rotten.

 

[Earburner]

That is no0t what the bible says. Grammatically (and God is perfect in grammar) it says we are predestined. and to what are WE predestined to? To be adopted as sons! also WE were selected before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him.

Nope! The plan to adopt as many as would believe in Jesus, was purposely premeditated, predetermined and predestinated.

To hear it your way is to believe that God purposely premeditated, predetermined and predestinated people to not believe in Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

And you know this about Matthias how???
If Peter was impetuous, maybe Paul was supposed to replace him for being too impetuous.

It may be God wanted Paul all along, but that is not what Scripture says and I will not seek to contradict Scripture to uphold my opinion.

And what makes you so sure Paul was Judas replacement. Matthias was appointed an Apostle and Paul was appointed an Apostle what other biblical evidence do you have.

One was clearly and specifically chosen by God. The other was chosen by the will of man. God apparently agrees, because it is He Himself who reveals in Rev. that there are ONLY 12.
Rev. 21
[14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Edit: What else there is to know is Peter conducted his operation of choosing a replacement for Judas Iscariot in Acts ch. 1 before the day of Pentecost took place. Therefore, by Peter not having the Holy Spirit within himself, who was he to assume authority of HOW and WHEN God would make His own choice of who is an Apostle and who is not.

 

[Muna]

Edit: What else there is to know is Peter conducted his operation of choosing a replacement for Judas Iscariot in Acts ch. 1 before the day of Pentecost took place. Therefore, by Peter not having the Holy Spirit within himself, who was he to assume authority of HOW and WHEN God would make His own choice of who is an Apostle and who is not.

They had no the Holy Ghost here?

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 

[pandaflower]

We are not all apostles, pf. Read John 6 slowly and see who walked away, but who stayed. The Apostles. They were the only ones who were predestined. You've been taught a lie. Read the Word for yourself. Are you a Calvinist? He was a murderer, so his fruit is rotten.

Did you read the whole of the new testament slowly?

The Disciples were chosen and predestined,yes. So too is everyone who is in Christ Jesus.

Thinking only the Disciples were predestined is not actually what God tells us.

 

[pandaflower]

Hello Panda,

I do not find it strange. In the Old Testament, there was a remnant of people who did not bow to Baal. God set them apart for His purposes:

1 Kings 19:18 – "Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

Similarly, there was a group predestined to be part of the bride of Christ. However, I do not personally assert that this specific designation continues in the same way today.

Often, those who embrace this path may develop a sense of spiritual superiority, believing they were chosen above others. This can lead to a prideful and condescending attitude, which I find concerning and misaligned with humility and love. Thus, from my perspective, it’s not unusual to challenge or reject that mindset.

If I were to declare myself "chosen," I would feel foolish. I believe I made a choice—one grounded in the gift of free will.

Additionally, I hold the view that Christ has already returned and gathered His bride—a group composed of faithful Jews and Gentiles of that time. Today, the decision remains clear: choose to live faithfully or choose otherwise.

Claiming to be chosen based solely on an interpretation risks self-deception. Ultimately, it is Yahavah who calls each of us daily—through the Spirit and through the witness of His creation. Many today respond to that call, not through pride, but by embodying love: loving their neighbor as themselves. The attitude of “God chose me, not you” reflects a distorted and harmful view of divine calling. That is not a path I endorse.

God does not require your endorsement.

I'll stick with what God tells me in his own words.

 

[MatthewG]

God does not require your endorsement.

I'll stick with what God tells me in his own words.

Hello pandaflower,

I believe that sharing is an expression of caring. You are wholeheartedly welcome to continue in your beliefs and walk your path. May you worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

 

[brightfame52]

@1stCenturyLady

Ephesians 1-12 shows that those who first believed were predestined. They are the apostles.

False, it doesnt show that, its the whole Body of Christ, His Church. Your statement would equate to only a small portion of Christs Mystical Body were predestined, and not the whole, that only part of His Bride was predestined Eph 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The Church is His fullness Eph 1:22-23

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

And ye say only a small part was predestinated ?

 

[pandaflower]

Hello pandaflower,

I believe that sharing is an expression of caring. You are wholeheartedly welcome to continue in your beliefs and walk your path. May you worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

My,you are arrogant and condescending in your push for a false doctrine.

You see , well ,no,you don't, you're wrong. While you invent a belief system you can live with you in turn imply others who follow the Gospel of Christ are doing the same.

When we do not recognize the Gospel as Christ gave it,we are not his.

 

[MatthewG]

My,you are arrogant and condescending in your push for a false doctrine.

You see , well ,no,you don't, you're wrong. While you invent a belief system you can live with you in turn imply others who follow the Gospel of Christ are doing the same.

When we do not recognize the Gospel as Christ gave it,we are not his.

Hello pandaflower,

I’m simply sharing my perspective. Others are free to believe as they choose—that’s not my concern. What truly matters to me is remaining steadfast in faith and practicing love toward one another.

I’m comfortable being wrong, and I appreciate your judgment. Thank you again for the meaningful question you posed yesterday—it gave me a lot to reflect on.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Nope! The plan to adopt as many as would believe in Jesus, was purposely premeditated, predetermined and predestinated.

To hear it your way is to believe that God purposely premeditated, predetermined and predestinated people to not believe in Jesus.

That is just a lie that is old and commonly used by people trying to twist this argument.

right now on this earth, there are over 4 billion people who will live and die and never hear about Jesus once. They do not even have a chance at salcvation. all are lost from conception. But you need to get some glassed or have your eyes checked for here is what Scripture says:

Romans 8:29​

​

King James Version​

​

​

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Those whom God knew in advance He PREDESTINATED THEM , to be congformed...... NOt the plan but the people are predestinated to be confomred.

EPH. 1:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

He CHOSE US before the foundation of the world, He did not select that we should be holy- He selected us.


VVerse 5: Having predestinated US (not the adoption)

Either you are hanging onto a teaching that defies the written infallible word of God, or you have abandoned the use of grammar for mystical meanings that are not written.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

One was clearly and specifically chosen by God. The other was chosen by the will of man. God apparently agrees, because it is He Himself who reveals in Rev. that there are ONLY 12.
Rev. 21
[14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Edit: What else there is to know is Peter conducted his operation of choosing a replacement for Judas Iscariot in Acts ch. 1 before the day of Pentecost took place. Therefore, by Peter not having the Holy Spirit within himself, who was he to assume authority of HOW and WHEN God would make His own choice of who is an Apostle and who is not.

That is still no evidence, just your philosophical reasonings for defending an idea that is not clearly or even implied in Scripture.

 

[pandaflower]

Hello pandaflower,

I’m simply sharing my perspective. Others are free to believe as they choose—that’s not my concern. What truly matters to me is remaining steadfast in faith and practicing love toward one another.

I’m comfortable being wrong, and I appreciate your judgment. Thank you again for the meaningful question you posed yesterday—it gave me a lot to reflect on.

I think that's your problem.

You're following a doctrine based on your perspective.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hello pandaflower,

I’m simply sharing my perspective. Others are free to believe as they choose—that’s not my concern. What truly matters to me is remaining steadfast in faith and practicing love toward one another.

I’m comfortable being wrong, and I appreciate your judgment. Thank you again for the meaningful question you posed yesterday—it gave me a lot to reflect on.

Maybe you should share what is written instead of what your perspective is. The bible is gods' perspective which is vastly different than yours.

 

[MatthewG]

I think that's your problem.

You're following a doctrine based on your perspective.

Maybe you should share what is written instead of what your perspective is. The bible is gods' perspective which is vastly different than yours.

People are allowed to perspective to cut that off would mess with me… that would cut off my critical thinking skills.

That is cult mentality. All the best.

 

[pandaflower]

People are allowed to perspective to cut that off would mess with me… that would cut off my critical thinking skills.

That is cult mentality. All the best.

Now Christians who believe in the Gospel Jesus taught are cultists?

Your critical thinking skills abrogate the teachings of Jesus.
Something Jesus also talked about. And warned against.

You are in print what is in print in 1 John 2.

You don't understand. So you make up your own ideology. That's what you're telling me.

 

[MatthewG]

Now Christians who believe in the Gospel Jesus taught are cultists?

Your critical thinking skills abrogate the teachings of Jesus.
Something Jesus also talked about. And warned against.

You are in print what is in print in 1 John 2.

You don't understand. So you make up your own ideology. That's what you're telling me.

Hello, Panda

I prefer to communicate openly rather than privately through messages. I’m transparent and willing to answer any questions. However, I’ve noticed that scripture is often used in ways that lack genuine context and understanding, which misses the opportunity to uplift and encourage others through its true meaning.

Personally, I find value in studying scripture systematically—chapter by chapter, verse by verse. This method brings depth and clarity. Sadly, many people approach it with a spirit of condemnation and judgment, which stems more from human nature than from faith.

I don’t consider myself special or set apart. I simply share insights I’ve gained through reading and reflection. If others choose to judge me for that, so be it.

Suppressing someone’s ability to think critically or express their own perspective reflects a controlling mindset—and that has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

 

[pandaflower]

Hello, Panda

I prefer to communicate openly rather than privately through messages. I’m transparent and willing to answer any questions. However, I’ve noticed that scripture is often used in ways that lack genuine context and understanding, which misses the opportunity to uplift and encourage others through its true meaning.

Personally, I find value in studying scripture systematically—chapter by chapter, verse by verse. This method brings depth and clarity. Sadly, many people approach it with a spirit of condemnation and judgment, which stems more from human nature than from faith.

I don’t consider myself special or set apart. I simply share insights I’ve gained through reading and reflection. If others choose to judge me for that, so be it.

Suppressing someone’s ability to think critically or express their own perspective reflects a controlling mindset—and that has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

God shall judge you.

You think we who believe every word of Jesus are wrong because we don't use what you label,critical thinking skills.

Where you are wrong is first,your ego is incapable of admitting you are wrong.

Further, you are wrong thinking you have to figure out a better way to understand God's salvation than what God taught of it himself.

You're not here discussing the Bible when you don't believe a word of it.