What is your take? Satan was the Religious Zealots of that time.

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

The Bible clearly tells us that Hades and Satan are ultimately done away with, so I’m honestly not sure why there’s still such a big fuss over it. I personally believe that part of the story has already been wrapped up—so why keep stressing about it?

It seems like you're making judgments simply because you see things differently, and that’s alright—we’re all coming from our own perspectives. I know some topics can feel a little unusual or unexpected, and people are probably always going to react in their own way when things like this come up.

Honestly, I’m okay with that. In the end, everyone has to make their own choices. I just know that no one else can make mine for me.

 

[Behold]

Hello @Behold,

The Bible clearly tells us that Hades and Satan are ultimately done away with,

Paul who wrote more of the NT epistles, and the Church Doctrine. told you that you have to stand against the Devil, by putting on your Heavenly Armor.
That's why you put it on.

Paul told you that at least one time he was hindered by the devil, from doing a mission..

Paul teaches that people like you are "mind blinded" by the Devil.

Let me tell you who enjoys your preterism, and you "no hell" and "no devil" theology.

A.) The Devil

 

[Behold]

Hello @Behold,

The Bible clearly tells us that Hades and Satan

Hell is still accepting Christ rejectors, according to John 3:36.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So are you saying that the religious Jewish Pharisees were with Jesus in the wilderness and tempted Him there?

It is possible. Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Wild beasts desiring to tear Him. If we only think literal wild beasts…we miss what wild beast were with him.

More important though are those messengers that came to mister unto Him there. One could have been the woman by the well when Jesus was weary and thirst. If we can’t suspend the literal then there is no point in …Jesus temptation in the wilderness could also spans all generations when He suffers with His people, just as He told Saul why do you persecute Me? And they came to minister to Him during the day of His temptation can also reveal Matthew 25:42-45 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: [43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. [44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? [45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

If it’s literal …which it is regarding ministering …but spiritual in the ministering to Jesus (when he hungers and thirst, in when you do it to the least of theses you do it unto Me) transcends time.

How did they manage to take Him up a mountain so high that it gave a view of all the kingdoms of the world?

Only if we take it literal so that Jesus had to be drawn up to the peak of a tall mountain.
Matthew 17:20-21 He said to them, "Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."
But how if the mountain is a literal mountain? We don’t claim it is.

 

[MatthewG]

Paul who wrote more of the NT epistles, and the Church Doctrine. told you that you have to stand against the Devil, by putting on your Heavenly Armor.
That's why you put it on.

Paul told you that at least one time he was hindered by the devil, from doing a mission..

Paul teaches that people like you are "mind blinded" by the Devil.

Let me tell you who enjoys your preterism, and you "no hell" and "no devil" theology.

A.) The Devil

Hell is still accepting Christ rejectors, according to John 3:36.

Hello Behold,

There was definitely a time when the devil and Hades played a major role—but Revelation tells us they’re ultimately done away with. So I’m not sure why we keep circling back to the same debates over and over.

 

[MatthewG]

So are you saying that the religious Jewish Pharisees were with Jesus in the wilderness and tempted Him there?

I am just saying that in a spiritual sense that is what Jesus was tempted with in fighting against himself in taking.

Jesus was tempted in all ways, and it was a very real thing. The Jewish leaders at the time, would have most certainly welcome him into the fold if Jesus would have submitted to them, but he did not.

The Jewish people whom are and were leaders of the Religious law, worshiped the Law instead of God himself.

Does this not sound like Satan in the Garden?

How did they manage to take Him up a mountain so high that it gave a view of all the kingdoms of the world?

It could have been a spiritual happening, I don't know for sure.

And what do you make of a verse like this from Revelation, which equates the devil, Satan and the serpent?:

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Re 12:9 NKJV)

The Jewish nation deceived the world (the world at that time, the age of that day) in making themselves to be as God, even having killed the Messiah, and even paid for the Guards to tell lies that Jesus body was actually taken away and stolen.

The serpent was the guise Satan used in the Garden of Eden, long before there were such people as Pharisees, or even Jews.

I hope this helps you, sometimes I don't have the patience and that is just my flesh.

2 Corinthians 11:14 reminds us, “But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.”

This passage can be reflected upon in the context of the religious leadership of Jesus' time. These leaders, perceived as spiritual authorities, often presented themselves as beacons of truth—yet, in practice, some acted more as gatekeepers than guides, ultimately positioning themselves as if they were equal with God.

It’s sobering to consider that they handed over the very Light of all mankind—Jesus—and continued on with their way of life, seemingly unmoved. Jesus alluded to this reality in the Parable of the Evil Farmers, foretelling the judgment that awaited those who rejected and mistreated God’s messengers.

Revelation speaks of the final defeat of Satan and the end of Hades, marking the culmination of divine justice. Still, even after Christ's ascension, many continued traditional temple practices, including annual sacrifices. Paul, recognizing the tension between the old and new covenant, adapted his approach—becoming “as one under the law” when ministering to those still bound to it, and “as one not under the law” with those who embraced freedom through Christ.

All of these events and teachings—woven together throughout Scripture—offer us a divinely inspired narrative. The Bible remains a gift, given to guide, challenge, and draw us closer to God’s heart.

 

[MatthewG]

When I say this: The Jewish nation deceived the world (the world at that time, the age of that day) in making themselves to be as God, even having killed the Messiah, and even paid for the Guards to tell lies that Jesus body was actually taken away and stolen. It reminds me of the Tower of Babel which Yahavah had made fall down.


In reflecting on the historical and spiritual dynamics of the first century, it’s striking how the religious authorities of that era elevated their traditions and interpretations in ways that, at times, placed them in a role resembling that of divine authority. Their rejection of the Messiah, culminating in His crucifixion, and the subsequent attempts to suppress the truth of His resurrection—such as the payment to the guards to spread the claim that His body was stolen—reflect deep spiritual resistance.

This moment echoes the narrative of the Tower of Babel, where humanity sought to elevate itself in defiance of God’s design. In both cases, the pursuit of control and self-exaltation led to divine response and correction. These patterns reveal how human pride can obscure truth and hinder the unfolding of God’s redemptive plan.

 

[MatthewG]

I firmly believe that engaging with the Bible requires the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and that understanding is often shaped by the depth and sincerity of one’s personal study. While I have not yet read the entirety of the Old Testament, I willingly acknowledge that and have, however, read nearly all of the New Testament—save for the book of Acts. Though I do not consider myself a biblical expert, I’ve devoted meaningful time to reading Scripture and listening to the insights of others throughout my journey as a believer.

It is the Spirit that enables us to connect the truths of Scripture in meaningful ways. When approached solely through human reasoning or tradition, without the Spirit’s leading, our understanding can remain superficial or disconnected.

I recognize that some initial resistance to fresh perspectives often stems from longstanding traditions. Personally, I advocate for setting those traditions aside and approaching Scripture with renewed openness. However, I understand that many perceive this approach as disruptive—even troubling.

Yet, a faithful pursuit of God often requires us to revisit, reexamine, and rework our studies, commentaries, and theological frameworks. Though this process may feel daunting, when led by the Spirit, it should not result in confusion or division—but in clarity, peace, and a deeper connection to God’s truth.

 

[Brakelite]

When I say this: The Jewish nation deceived the world (the world at that time, the age of that day) in making themselves to be as God, even having killed the Messiah, and even paid for the Guards to tell lies that Jesus body was actually taken away and stolen. It reminds me of the Tower of Babel which Yahavah had made fall down.


In reflecting on the historical and spiritual dynamics of the first century, it’s striking how the religious authorities of that era elevated their traditions and interpretations in ways that, at times, placed them in a role resembling that of divine authority. Their rejection of the Messiah, culminating in His crucifixion, and the subsequent attempts to suppress the truth of His resurrection—such as the payment to the guards to spread the claim that His body was stolen—reflect deep spiritual resistance.

This moment echoes the narrative of the Tower of Babel, where humanity sought to elevate itself in defiance of God’s design. In both cases, the pursuit of control and self-exaltation led to divine response and correction. These patterns reveal how human pride can obscure truth and hinder the unfolding of God’s redemptive plan.

Matthew. Have you considered that it wasn't until after the temptation that Jesus began his ministry, and therefore had not yet made any enemies? The Pharisees up to that time were more concerned with John the Baptist... Jesus was just an unknown carpenter from a God forsaken village filled with vagabonds and bandits. But the devil knew Who He was. That's why his opening gambit was, "if thou be the Son of God...". The Devil was trying to convince Jesus He wasn't the Son. The temptation was for Jesus to prove it. To doubt His Father's word at the baptism 40 days previously. Jesus wasn't buying it. He knew precisely Who and what He was. And He didn't need to prove it to anyone. The big question Matthew... Do you know who He is? Do you know Him? Are you sins forgiven?

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew. Have you considered that it wasn't until after the temptation that Jesus began his ministry, and therefore had not yet made any enemies? The Pharisees up to that time were more concerned with John the Baptist... Jesus was just an unknown carpenter from a God forsaken village filled with vagabonds and bandits. But the devil knew Who He was. That's why his opening gambit was, "if thou be the Son of God...". The Devil was trying to convince Jesus He wasn't the Son. The temptation was for Jesus to prove it. To doubt His Father's word at the baptism 40 days previously. Jesus wasn't buying it. He knew precisely Who and what He was. And He didn't need to prove it to anyone. The big question Matthew... Do you know who He is? Do you know Him? Are you sins forgiven?

Hello @Brakelite,

Your observation brings to mind how the Pharisees continually challenged Jesus throughout His ministry—ultimately handing Him over to the Romans for crucifixion. Even after His resurrection, they went so far as to bribe the guards to spread the false claim that His body had been stolen.

In many ways, their actions embodied opposition to truth, aligning with the symbolic role of “Satan” as the adversary.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus Himself faced temptation and had to make deliberate choices, showing us both His humanity and His strength. Along with the help of his Father.

As for the final question raised—it may not be necessary to revisit that point.

I became a believer at age 26 and continue to walk in faith today at 34. I’m genuinely interested to know if you’ve read any of my other posts, and what your impressions might be.

Honestly curious—but I’ll admit, sometimes I brace myself for the kind of response that dismisses everything with a sweeping “You’re wrong, Matthew. Are you even saved?” That kind of reaction misses the heart of genuine dialogue.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Satan offers all the kingdoms to Yeshua.

(Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees, that would have given all to him if he would have just bowed down and worshiped them.)


The biblical verses that describe Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of the world are found in Matthew 4:8-10 and Luke 4:5-7. In these passages, Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, offering them to Jesus if he will worship Satan.

I would categorize Satan more as the ultimate narcissist

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts @Ronald Nolette.

 

[MatthewG]

Collection of the thoughts and musings that have come about within this thread.

If anyone is curious to know what they may be here is a collection of them.

Satan offers all the kingdoms to Yeshua.

(Satan was the religious Jewish Pharisees, that would have given all to him if he would have just bowed down and worshiped them.)


The biblical verses that describe Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of the world are found in Matthew 4:8-10 and Luke 4:5-7. In these passages, Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, offering them to Jesus if he will worship Satan.

Ozzy Osbourne is considered the god of Rock'n'roll, the dark Prince.

Thanks for commenting, Fred.

Hello VIJ,

You know, I think a lot of the confusion comes from how people picture Satan—as this cartoonish guy with horns and a pitchfork, running around trying to steal souls from God. But I see it differently.

To me, the bigger issue was how far Israel had drifted from God’s heart. They lost sight of key things like mercy, justice, and faithfulness. It’s almost like they ended up worshiping the Mosaic Law itself rather than the God behind it—which is pretty wild when you really think about it.

So when Jesus encountered “Satan,” whether it was a spiritual moment or something more visible, I tend to think He was being confronted with the religious leaders of His day. They were kind of seen as the “gods” of that world, especially after that 400-year gap between Malachi and the birth of Jesus, when the Word of God finally came through again.

And the part about offering Jesus all the “kingdoms of the world”? I’ve always found that fascinating. Even though the 12 tribes were still showing up once a year for sacrifices, the kingdom was divided in two—so there’s a lot to consider in that, too.

Honestly, it’s kind of mind-blowing to think about how it all fits together. So many layers, right?

He could have become their king, if Jesus would have just bowed and did what they had said.

Considering people must use the spirit in conjunction with the Bible. Nothing can really compare to the spiritual truths that can come through if one investigates for themselves maybe even reading along in the Gospels asking the Father in heaven to help you understand as you continue to go alongside when you are reading.

Those are the things that are valuable and important. Always remember that worship Yahavah in spirit and truth, the Father whom adopts us into his kingdom, is a great connection that you have now in doing so because of faith.

My consideration for the Religious Zealots of that time being Satan aren’t new. They are very old indeed. They were the “gods of that world” - Satan - just as “Peter had his mind on the things of the flesh as he told Jesus no you won’t die!”

Hello Stumpmaster,

May I pose a question: While Scripture speaks clearly of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ, is it accurate to say that these are not confined solely to the text itself?

In my view, the Spirit of Christ is something one embodies and lives by—it’s a living, active presence not limited to the written word. Though the Bible offers guidance and insight, the Spirit transcends its pages.

Do you believe it’s meaningful to engage both the Spirit and Scripture together?

2 Corinthians 11:14 reminds us, “But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.”

This passage can be reflected upon in the context of the religious leadership of Jesus' time. These leaders, perceived as spiritual authorities, often presented themselves as beacons of truth—yet, in practice, some acted more as gatekeepers than guides, ultimately positioning themselves as if they were equal with God.

It’s sobering to consider that they handed over the very Light of all mankind—Jesus—and continued on with their way of life, seemingly unmoved. Jesus alluded to this reality in the Parable of the Evil Farmers, foretelling the judgment that awaited those who rejected and mistreated God’s messengers.

Revelation speaks of the final defeat of Satan and the end of Hades, marking the culmination of divine justice. Still, even after Christ's ascension, many continued traditional temple practices, including annual sacrifices. Paul, recognizing the tension between the old and new covenant, adapted his approach—becoming “as one under the law” when ministering to those still bound to it, and “as one not under the law” with those who embraced freedom through Christ.

All of these events and teachings—woven together throughout Scripture—offer us a divinely inspired narrative. The Bible remains a gift, given to guide, challenge, and draw us closer to God’s heart.

I am just saying that in a spiritual sense that is what Jesus was tempted with in fighting against himself in taking.

Jesus was tempted in all ways, and it was a very real thing. The Jewish leaders at the time, would have most certainly welcome him into the fold if Jesus would have submitted to them, but he did not.

The Jewish people whom are and were leaders of the Religious law, worshiped the Law instead of God himself.

Does this not sound like Satan in the Garden?

It could have been a spiritual happening, I don't know for sure.

The Jewish nation deceived the world (the world at that time, the age of that day) in making themselves to be as God, even having killed the Messiah, and even paid for the Guards to tell lies that Jesus body was actually taken away and stolen.

I hope this helps you, sometimes I don't have the patience and that is just my flesh.

When I say this: The Jewish nation deceived the world (the world at that time, the age of that day) in making themselves to be as God, even having killed the Messiah, and even paid for the Guards to tell lies that Jesus body was actually taken away and stolen. It reminds me of the Tower of Babel which Yahavah had made fall down.


In reflecting on the historical and spiritual dynamics of the first century, it’s striking how the religious authorities of that era elevated their traditions and interpretations in ways that, at times, placed them in a role resembling that of divine authority. Their rejection of the Messiah, culminating in His crucifixion, and the subsequent attempts to suppress the truth of His resurrection—such as the payment to the guards to spread the claim that His body was stolen—reflect deep spiritual resistance.

This moment echoes the narrative of the Tower of Babel, where humanity sought to elevate itself in defiance of God’s design. In both cases, the pursuit of control and self-exaltation led to divine response and correction. These patterns reveal how human pride can obscure truth and hinder the unfolding of God’s redemptive plan.

I firmly believe that engaging with the Bible requires the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and that understanding is often shaped by the depth and sincerity of one’s personal study. While I have not yet read the entirety of the Old Testament, I willingly acknowledge that and have, however, read nearly all of the New Testament—save for the book of Acts. Though I do not consider myself a biblical expert, I’ve devoted meaningful time to reading Scripture and listening to the insights of others throughout my journey as a believer.

It is the Spirit that enables us to connect the truths of Scripture in meaningful ways. When approached solely through human reasoning or tradition, without the Spirit’s leading, our understanding can remain superficial or disconnected.

I recognize that some initial resistance to fresh perspectives often stems from longstanding traditions. Personally, I advocate for setting those traditions aside and approaching Scripture with renewed openness. However, I understand that many perceive this approach as disruptive—even troubling.

Yet, a faithful pursuit of God often requires us to revisit, reexamine, and rework our studies, commentaries, and theological frameworks. Though this process may feel daunting, when led by the Spirit, it should not result in confusion or division—but in clarity, peace, and a deeper connection to God’s truth.

@VictoryinJesus,

There seems to be some type of spirit, perhaps the Spirit of the Antichrist, but all the while it seems them also being called "children of the devil" would just co-relate as them being Satan.

what does satan mean in greek?


In Greek, the word Satan is transliterated as Σατανᾶς (Satanas), and it carries the meaning of “adversary” or “accuser”2.
Here’s a quick breakdown:

• Origin: Though the Greek term is Satanas, it actually comes from the Hebrew word śāṭān, which also means “adversary” or “one who opposes.”
• Biblical Usage: In the New Testament, Satanas is used to describe a personal, supernatural being who opposes God, tempts believers, and is ultimately defeated in Revelation.
• Associated Terms: The Greek word diabolos (διάβολος), meaning “slanderer” or “accuser,” is often used interchangeably with Satanas and is the root of the English word “devil”3.

So when you see “Satan” in the Greek New Testament, it’s not just a name—it’s a title that reflects his role as the opposer of God’s purposes.

 

[Muna]

@VictoryinJesus

I am just going to answer you here

You posted

Good point regarding ‘children of the devil” but this was not because they were satan himself…’

But followed that up with...

yet I don’t think that proves satan or the devil as some red devil with horns and a pitch fork.

You do know what a strawman is right?

I won't argue with the strawman but I will agree, I see no pitchfork shown in Rev 12:1, Rev 12:9

You posted,

My husband suggests that Jesus temptation in the wilderness was with his flesh

I might not know what you mean by that, but we would both agree that Jesus was the word made flesh, and while he was in the days of his flesh he was led by the Spirit to be tempted of the devil, but also of the children of the devil.

First here to be tempted by the devil who is Satan

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

And so obviously Jesus was not being tempted of God (but he was led by the Spirit) "to be" tempted (of the devil) who is also called "the tempter" (because that is what he does)

Which also agrees with what James says,

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man

James 1:14 But every man IS tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Which shows us there is a tempter (called the devil/Satan) which seeks "to tempt", but every man IS tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. And in James 1:15 he says, "when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin"

We are assured of this,

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

James speaks of one of these points

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

We see here

Mat 5:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

John says,

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him,

Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

As John writes

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

(On another note, I am not seeing how any of that relates to Josephs dream at all, which you mention in the end of your post)

You also wrote,

We have to remember when Peter was rebuked and told “get behind me Satan” when Jesus said he (the spirit tempting Peter) desired not the things of God when Peter tried to stop Jesus from going.

Yes, I haven't forgotten about it. Paul himself speaks of the offence of the cross, especially among the circumcision, and here we see in Peter beginning to rebuke the Lord on this very thing,

saying "Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee"

Matt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

As the Lord would later say,

Matt 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Which is of the things pertaining to God

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

His being obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

Then here it says,

Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Notice it say, "suffered being tempted" and in that context of the same is also found in 1 Peter

1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

This is speaking to a suffering in temptation that can be found in verbal provocations, where his not answering in the like (not reviling again) and his threatening not is mentioned

The same word for revile is found in Romans 15:3 is the word reproach

Romans 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

And so he suffered reproach even as those in Christ will 1 Ti 4:10, 1 Peter 4:14 Likewise Jesus said,

Luke 6:1 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Just as Satan tempted Jesus Christ in the wilderness (a place apart) these who belong to him are shown "tempting Christ" in this way

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and "tempted" him

Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why "tempt ye" me, ye hypocrites?

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, "tempting" him

Luke 20:23 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why "tempt ye" me?

The same which seek to accuse him, tempting in in this manner

John 8:6 This they said, "tempting" him, that they might have "to accuse" him.

Much like their father the devil

Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might "accuse" him.

So there is a spirit that works in them

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Now the whole context

1 Peter 2:22-23 Who "did no sin", neither was guile found "in his mouth" Who, "when he was reviled", reviled "not" again; when he suffered, "he threatened not"; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

Your posts are a bit too long to keep answering to, perhaps you shorten down to what you might disagree with.

I will get a "too many characters" warning by quoting all your words and giving answers, if you absolutely must just break things into different posts, just so I can have the space to reply.

Edit, corrected some of the sentences

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You posted

Good point regarding ‘children of the devil” but this was not because they were satan himself…’

But followed that up with...

yet I don’t think that proves satan or the devil as some red devil with horns and a pitch fork.

You do know what a strawman is right?

I won't argue with the strawman but I will agree, I see no pitchfork shown in Rev 12:1, Rev 12:9

To keep it simple. I liked your post, and found much it helpful to me. Since you requested shorter post, I narrowed it down to two quotes of yours I’d like to respond to.

No…I really did not know what a strawman is. I’ve heard it used often on the board. I finally looked up what it means. I genuinely wasn’t trying to make a strawman argument. I was serious about the red devil with horns and a pitch fork. I grew up believing that was his description. I don’t know how that is a strawman when it’s a common thing for a little of this and a little of that to be taken from the Bible and it becomes something passed down. I’ve seen a winnowing fork referenced in the word, yes and also “red”, and horns and a tail …it wasn’t a joke to me because I was led from a young age to think THAT WAS a picture of the devil.

So there is a spirit that works in them

Is the spirit that works in them satan?

 

[MatthewG]

@VictoryinJesus,

There seems to be some type of spirit, perhaps the Spirit of the Antichrist, but all the while it seems them also being called "children of the devil" would just co-relate as them being Satan.

what does satan mean in greek?


In Greek, the word Satan is transliterated as Σατανᾶς (Satanas), and it carries the meaning of “adversary” or “accuser”2.
Here’s a quick breakdown:

• Origin: Though the Greek term is Satanas, it actually comes from the Hebrew word śāṭān, which also means “adversary” or “one who opposes.”
• Biblical Usage: In the New Testament, Satanas is used to describe a personal, supernatural being who opposes God, tempts believers, and is ultimately defeated in Revelation.
• Associated Terms: The Greek word diabolos (διάβολος), meaning “slanderer” or “accuser,” is often used interchangeably with Satanas and is the root of the English word “devil”3.

So when you see “Satan” in the Greek New Testament, it’s not just a name—it’s a title that reflects his role as the opposer of God’s purposes.

 

[Muna]

To keep it simple. I liked your post, and found much it helpful to me. Since you requested shorter post, I narrowed it down to two quotes of yours I’d like to respond to.

No…I really did not know what a strawman is. I’ve heard it used often on the board. I finally looked up what it means. I genuinely wasn’t trying to make a strawman argument. I was serious about the red devil with horns and a pitch fork. I grew up believing that was his description. I don’t know how that is a strawman when it’s a common thing for a little of this and a little of that to be taken from the Bible and it becomes something passed down. I’ve seen a winnowing fork referenced in the word, yes and also “red”, and horns and a tail …it wasn’t a joke to me because I was led from a young age to think THAT WAS a picture of the devil.



Is the spirit that works in them satan?

How it might make that a strawman would be quoting me on one thing I have said, (even if you are in agreement with me on it as you were) but framing your next response as follows

(( YET I DON'T THINK THAT PROVES )) satan or the devil as some red devil with horns and a pitch fork.

See what I mean? I was not attempting to prove such a thing.

Even if you were serious about it (as you said you were) as far as how you might have imagined it, you are answering me (( AS IF )) I too have concluded this. Or what you yourself are describing in the whole red devil with a pitchfork thing. ((AS IF )) I am the one attempting to prove this cartoon charicature (from some sort of Tom and Jerry's episode we might have watched as a children?) which (obviously) you disagree with. Raising an argument thats not there to argue the case to the contrary.

And I can't really argue with you concerning it because I agree that ofcourse, that charicature is untrue.

To answer your question, I would call Satan a spirit, he is shown entering a person ( as he entered into Judas) but there are many spirits.

The prince of the power of the air is a spirit

Ephes 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Who is also called the god of this world

2 Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There is children of the devil (and the spirit that works in the same) and the children of God and the Spirit that is from God that works in those that belong to Him.

The Spirit of God works in us

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hello Stumpmaster,

May I pose a question: While Scripture speaks clearly of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ, is it accurate to say that these are not confined solely to the text itself?

In my view, the Spirit of Christ is something one embodies and lives by—it’s a living, active presence not limited to the written word. Though the Bible offers guidance and insight, the Spirit transcends its pages.

Do you believe it’s meaningful to engage both the Spirit and Scripture together?

Hey, @MatthewG

It's a matter of testing and aligning rather than confining. I've never considered the Scriptures to be a confining agent with regard to Christ and His Spirit. Quite the opposite.

(Heb 4:12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
(Heb 4:13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

2 Corinthians 6:14–16:

“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?”
“What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God...”

 

[MatthewG]

Hey, @MatthewG

It's a matter of testing and aligning rather than confining. I've never considered the Scriptures to be a confining agent with regard to Christ and His Spirit. Quite the opposite.

(Heb 4:12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
(Heb 4:13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

2 Corinthians 6:14–16:

“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?”
“What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God...”

Hello Stumpmaster,

That was not an answer to my question. Those two passages you shared were never written directly to me.

Paul mentions a person can be married to an unbeliever so how do you reconcile that or would you like to answer this question again?

Do you need the Spirit when using the Bible?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hello Stumpmaster,

That was not an answer to my question. Those two passages you shared were never written directly to me.

Paul mentions a person can be married to an unbeliever so how do you reconcile that or would you like to answer this question again?

Do you need the Spirit when using the Bible?

Some critics prefer the incontinence of extrabiblical alignments. That's on them. Of course there are unequally yoked marriages where one partner becomes a believer and the other doesn't, but the point that incompatibilities exist is well made.