OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Behold]

You could make an argument that the focus of our trust ought to be Christ,

If the focus of your Trust is not in Christ, then your Faith is not in Christ, your faith is in vain, and you're not a Chrisitan, and you're hell bound, reader, while you believe you are going to heaven.

Listen, Salvation is "the simplicity that is IN Christ".

= For you to gain heaven, you have to be reconcilled to God, by literally becoming "IN" Christ.
You have to become ETERNALLY "IN" Him.........and you cant do that of yourself.......so, OUT Go all your vain and useless attempts to try to be saved or stay saved.

God requires that you become "IN" Christ.........In Him, which gains for you the KOG, because you are now IN IT< once you are In Christ.

Why? Because God and Christ are the KOG., and this is why Jesus told you that the KOG is within you.........but its not, unless you are IN CHRIST and you have to be BORN AGAIN, to get there, and that is not water baptism.

Only God can put you there, by Spiritual Union, and the only reason He will, is if you provide Him with what He requires of you.

That is SIMPLY..........our "Faith, is counted by God, as (Christ's) Rightesouness".

This is why Paul teaches that Salvation is Justification by Faith, same as it was for Job, and Noah, and Abraham.

See...., you have to become as Righteous as God, to exist "IN" Christ who is Righteousness.
You have to become as Righteous as GOD, to go to heaven, as only the Righteous are found there... So, God has to give you "the gift of Righteousness", or you'll never have it.

THis is why God gives to the BELIEVER........""the imputed righteousness of Christ"""".............So, to Join God.....is to be reconciled to God who is "A Spirit".........and Only God's Spirit can do this for you by "new Birth". = Born.....again...

So, that is the "Simplicity that is in Christ"...and it is simple if its been revealed to you by the HS........and you can't earn it, or keep it, or maintain it , or deserve it, or lose it.

Its a GIFT.......its the "Gift of Righteousness".. its "Eternal Life".

Welcome to : Salvation.

 

[GracePeace]

If the focus of your Trust is not in Christ, then your Faith is not in Christ, your faith is in vain, and you're not a Chrisitan, and you're hell bound, reader, while you believe you are going to heaven.

Listen, Salvation is "the simplicity that is IN Christ".

= For you to gain heaven, you have to be reconcilled to God, by literally becoming "IN" Christ.
You have to become ETERNALLY "IN" Him.........and you cant do that of yourself.......so, OUT Go all your vain and useless attempts to try to be saved or stay saved.

Nah, not all branches that are in Him remain in Him (Jn 15; 1 Jn 2:28); rather, some people, after having believed, and been forgiven, do not walk in the truth/Spirit of that reality (eg, do not forgive), so, according to Mt 18, the forgiveness is rescinded, inferring the removal/forgetting of the man's faith (being forgiven of all his sins happened because he believed, according to Ro 4:6-8--the rescinding of the forgiveness indicates that God forgot his "faith counted as righteousness", since God forgets and blots out not only transgressions but also forgets and blots out righteousness according to Ez 18:24), so they have to pay for their sins, so there is no such thing as "eternally in Him". It's not a Biblical concept, even if it has utility, in making people, based on nonsense, focus more on Christ.

We also see this in Romans : there is "no condemnation" for those who are "in Christ" (Ro 8:1), but the one who does not walk in faith is sinning, and is, thus, "condemned" (Ro 1:17, 14:5,23), thus he is not "remaining" "in Christ" (or else he couldn't be "condemned"--but he's sinning, and "in Him there is no sin", so, again, he's not abiding in Him in Whom there is no sin)--and this is just as Scripture says, that we abide in Him only if we keep His command to believe in the Name of God's Son AND love one another ("faith works by love" so walking in faith is walking in love) (1 Jn 3:23,24).

Again, your approach has merit, but it is incomplete and leaves people confused.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yeah, you did...

No – I never did.

You are now resorting to LYING . . .

Not sure why you would try to deny you said I was disobedient, since it is all written down, and I can pull the reference.

Again – what’s up with the blatant LIES??

I never “denied” saying that you were disobedient. I believe you ARE – and that’s why you believe in the bizarre things that you do.

Remember, your gripe was that I quoted "do not add or remove" when referring to Jesus's explanation of why the people were being rejected in Mt 7--you claimed it was because they were doing things their own way, not listening to your Church, and were going through the motions, but Jesus said it was because they thought glorifying God was by means of miraculous signs and wonders, whereas it was through doing righteousness.

No – Jesus didn’t say that. He left it open for interpretation.

The people in Matt. 7:21-23 thought that by performing signs and wonders, they were doing the will of God. They were NOT, because they were living their “faith” on their OWN terms – and NOT God’s.

This is precisely what YOU are doing . . .

The issue is that we have a case study in "tradition"--I don't let you define it, I let Paul define it.
When I look at his definition, I don't find your definition, I find something else.

YOUR problem - as you have repeatedly stated - here is that you actually believe that the ONLY tradition Paul taught was that “If you so not work, you should not eat”. That is an incredible silly and ignorant thing to believe. Paul didn’t make a list of all of his Oral teachings – not did ANY of the Apostles.

Tradition is the Word of God that we DON’T read on the pages of Scripture . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yeah, you did...

No – I never did.

You are now resorting to LYING . . .

Not sure why you would try to deny you said I was disobedient, since it is all written down, and I can pull the reference.

Again – what’s up with the blatant LIES??

I never “denied” saying that you were disobedient. I believe you ARE – and that’s why you believe in the bizarre things that you do.

 

[GracePeace]

No – I never did.

You are now resorting to LYING . . .

Again – what’s up with the blatant LIES??

I never “denied” saying that you were disobedient. I believe you ARE –

So, we're back to square one : when you call me "disobedient" (you're saying that because I don't listen to your Church), you're the one being "cut throat"--if I'm "disobedient", I'm "rebellious", which is "unrighteous", and "the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God", so you're saying anyone who doesn't submit to your Church won't inherit the Kingdom of God.

As noted, you, perhaps, don't realize what you're saying.

We, on the other hand, have always held that there are saved believers in the RC and EO churches--we're not "cut throat".

and that’s why you believe in the bizarre things that you do.

See, the thing is that you can't actually prove anything I believe is "bizarre" (ie, not in keeping with the text), so, again, this is just more meaningless empty blathering--but I've proven you all are bizarre (ie, not in keeping with the text).

No – Jesus didn’t say that. He left it open for interpretation.

The people in Matt. 7:21-23 thought that by performing signs and wonders, they were doing the will of God. They were NOT, because they were living their “faith” on their OWN terms – and NOT God’s.

Nope, not open for interpretation--His teaching is that signs and wonders aren't the main way to glorify God, but righteousness is, and that is explicitly His teaching, a teaching we do not need the RC church to tell us, because it's literally written and we're warned about having that error, so this couldn't be used to back the argument that if we don't follow the RC we are doing faith "in our own way", and we are going to go to the Lord, saying, "Lord, Lord", but be told, "Get away workers of iniquity".
Oops! LOL!

This is precisely what YOU are doing . . .

Another demonstration of your "cut throat" faith--"Join my church, or else you're going to hell!"
Then, to add some more flavor to your insanity, "NO I NEVER SAID YOU WEREN'T GOING TO HELL IF YOU DON'T JOIN MY CHURCH!"
At best, you're confused--at worst, another "unwell" interlocutor who isn't playing with a full deck of cards.

YOUR problem - as you have repeatedly stated - here is that you actually believe that the ONLY tradition Paul taught was that “If you so not work, you should not eat”. That is an incredible silly and ignorant thing to believe.

LOL! Your problem, as you've repeatedly demonstrated, is your brain is dull : I'm harping on this instance of Paul explicating a "tradition", because it is a case study, and we can examine its parts, and understand what "tradition" ought to be, thus we can know what a counterfeit "tradition" is.

Paul didn’t make a list of all of his Oral teachings – not did ANY of the Apostles.
Tradition is the Word of God that we DON’T read on the pages of Scripture . . .

Already debunked this nonsense.

 

[Behold]

Nah, not all branches that are in Him remain in Him (Jn 15; 1 Jn 2:28)

Never use a symbolic verse as Literal NT doctrine., as this is going to fail.

So, verses that talk about "removing the candlestick" and "burned branches"... and "oil in lanterns".........none of this applies to Eternal Life that is found in Christ.
None of it.
It only applies to bad theology, that creates Legalism Cults, that capture the minds of many who have no real faith in Christ, which is why they believe that Jesus can't keep them saved, so they must try to do it for themselves.
And that is the worst fail of all......a "fallen from Grace". "in the flesh" "christian" who is trying to stay saved by doing things, and keeping things, and other such vain self effort. (Self Righteousness).

 

[GracePeace]

Never use a symbolic verse as Literal NT doctrine., as this is going to fail.

So, verses that talk about "removing the candlestick" and "burned branches"... and "oil in lanterns".........none of this applies to Eternal Life that is found in Christ.
None of it.
It only applies to bad theology, that creates Legalism Cults, that capture the minds of many who have no real faith in Christ, which is why they believe that Jesus can't keep them saved, so they must try to do it for themselves.
And that is the worst fail of all......a "fallen from Grace". "in the flesh" "christian" who is trying to stay saved by doing things, and keeping things, and other such vain self effort. (Self Righteousness).

Well, if you want to think getting thrown in the fire (what happens to branches that don't abide) is "eternal life", go for it--I'm not interested in that! Also, the same warning is given to "little children" (1 Jn 2:28)--so we know it applies to "true" believers--and it is said that if they don't abide in Him, they will "shrink back in shame at His appearance", and Heb 10 says "if My righteous one shrinks back My soul has no pleasure in him", and that this shrinking back is "unto destruction", so, yeah, you have a lot of verses to deal with (I'm sure you won't, though, since your view can't).

 

[Behold]

Well, if you want to think getting thrown in the fire

Christians have "passed from death to life"........Jesus has been Judged for all our sin, on EARTH, on The CROSS, which is why God will never Judge a Christian, after they die.

Jesus has already been judged for the sin of the Born again.

God does not "double judge".......>He does not Accept the Blood and death of His Son, on behalf of all BELIEVERS, and then later judge them as if Jesus didnt die for them already.

You dont understand this at all......so, that means you are the victim of a Cult that does not understand it.
They write commentaries.
They start churches.
They post on Forums.......<
They post online,
They post Utube Vids.

Which one has deceived you @GracePeace ?

You dont understand The Cross, and you really need to start, as some point.

If you own a bible, and it does not sound as if you own one... then read...

2 Cor 5:19
Romans 4:8

And LEARN, that God does not charge SIN to the born again..........

Geez.
Learn some bible.........if possible.

 

[GracePeace]

God does not "double judge".......>He does not Accept the Blood and death of His Son, on behalf of all BELIEVERS, and then later judge them as if Jesus didnt die for them already.

Matthew 18 : full forgiveness of debt is granted (so the guy believed (Ro 4:6-8)), so the debt is wiped out, and, then, later, the forgiveness is rescinded, and the debt returns, and the man has to pay.

OOPS! Maybe you should learn some Bible! LOL!
So ignorant--same as all Christians are.

Anyway, you don't offer exhaustive answers, so I'm not going to, either--I'll just pick the tiny portion I feel like answering, and answer that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Never use a symbolic verse as Literal NT doctrine., as this is going to fail.

So, verses that talk about "removing the candlestick" and "burned branches"... and "oil in lanterns".........none of this applies to Eternal Life that is found in Christ.
None of it.
It only applies to bad theology, that creates Legalism Cults, that capture the minds of many who have no real faith in Christ, which is why they believe that Jesus can't keep them saved, so they must try to do it for themselves.
And that is the worst fail of all......a "fallen from Grace". "in the flesh" "christian" who is trying to stay saved by doing things, and keeping things, and other such vain self effort. (Self Righteousness).

For goodness sake Behold !
This means we could throw out all of what Jesus said.

He spoke in farming terms and shepherding terms and goats and sheep
and oil running out and masters going away and leaving financial matters
and seeds that need to be planted, etc etc

So WHICH of Jesus' parables and analogies do you think we should discard??

Maybe we could make a list and pass it around?

John 15:2
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Is Jesus talking about growing grapes?
Maybe He left heaven and came to this place to plant some grapes?


So what IS Jesus teaching?:

1. Every branch IN CHRIST.....
If a branch is IN CHRIST...that branch - I mean that PERSON - is saved.

2. IF that branch/person, that IS SAVED, does NOT bear fruit...it is taken away, cut down, severed, removed.

3. And look at this: God PRUNES branches that are producing fruit (grape?) so that they can produce EVEN MORE!

I think FRUIT is referring to GOOD WORKS/DEEDS in order to further the Kingdom of God.
NOT the making of wine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, we're back to square one : when you call me "disobedient" (you're saying that because I don't listen to your Church), you're the one being "cut throat"--if I'm "disobedient", I'm "rebellious", which is "unrighteous", and "the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God", so you're saying anyone who doesn't submit to your Church won't inherit the Kingdom of God.

WRONG again.
I never judged your soul – only your actions/fruit.

Whether you are ultimately saved or not is up to God – and NOT me. I can only judge what you say and do (Mat. 7:15-20).

As noted, you, perhaps, don't realize what you're saying.

We, on the other hand, have always held that there are saved believers in the RC and EO churches--we're not "cut throat".

Again – I don’t care who YOU think is “saved”. It’s not YOUR call.
That is determined by GOD alone . . .
1 Cor. 4:3-4
I care very little if I am judged by YOU or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the LORD who judges me.

See, the thing is that you can't actually prove anything I believe is "bizarre" (ie, not in keeping with the text), so, again, this is just more meaningless empty blathering--but I've proven you all are bizarre (ie, not in keeping with the text).

Uhhhh – the mere fact that everybody needs to check with YOU before interpreting Scripture is a classic example of your bizarre beliefs . . .

Nope, not open for interpretation--His teaching is that signs and wonders aren't the main way to glorify God, but righteousness is, and that is explicitly His teaching, a teaching we do not need the RC church to tell us, because it's literally written and we're warned about having that error, so this couldn't be used to back the argument that if we don't follow the RC we are doing faith "in our own way", and we are going to go to the Lord, saying, "Lord, Lord", but be told, "Get away workers of iniquity".
Oops! LOL!

Not open for interpretation because YOU said so?? We all have to go to YOU for approval before we interpret the Scriptures? WHO put YOU in charge??

YOU espoise perverted doctrine. Why would I seek YOUR approval?

Another demonstration of your "cut throat" faith--"Join my church, or else you're going to hell!"
Then, to add some more flavor to your insanity, "NO I NEVER SAID YOU WEREN'T GOING TO HELL IF YOU DON'T JOIN MY CHURCH!"
At best, you're confused--at worst, another "unwell" interlocutor who isn't playing with a full deck of cards.

This shows how little you know about the historic Christian faith.

The doctrine of Invincible Ignorance is a very REAL and Biblical teaching. We are responsible for what we KNOW – for what has been REVEALED to us. We are NOT responsible for those things that we do NOT know or have NOT been revealed to us (Matt. 25:14-15, Luke 12:48, John 9:41).

LOL! Your problem, as you've repeatedly demonstrated, is your brain is dull : I'm harping on this instance of Paul explicating a "tradition", because it is a case study, and we can examine its parts, and understand what "tradition" ought to be, thus we can know what a counterfeit "tradition" is.

Ahhhh, yes - ad hoominem attackas ALWAYS follow when a persn is backed into a corner . . .

Your failure is that you don’t understand that “Tradition”, by definition, is the Word of God that we DON’T read on the pages of Scripture . . .

I suggest you invest in a dictionary . . .

Already debunked this nonsense.

No – all you've done is offer some nonsensical “explanation” for your perversions . . .

 

[GracePeace]

WRONG again.
I never judged your soul – only your actions/fruit.

Whether you are ultimately saved or not is up to God – and NOT me. I can only judge what you say and do (Mat. 7:15-20).

Again – I don’t care who YOU think is “saved”. It’s not YOUR call.
That is determined by GOD alone . . .
1 Cor. 4:3-4
I care very little if I am judged by YOU or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the LORD who judges me.

Uhhhh – the mere fact that everybody needs to check with YOU before interpreting Scripture is a classic example of your bizarre beliefs . . .

Not open for interpretation because YOU said so?? We all have to go to YOU for approval before we interpret the Scriptures? WHO put YOU in charge??

YOU espoise perverted doctrine. Why would I seek YOUR approval?

This shows how little you know about the historic Christian faith.

The doctrine of Invincible Ignorance is a very REAL and Biblical teaching. We are responsible for what we KNOW – for what has been REVEALED to us. We are NOT responsible for those things that we do NOT know or have NOT been revealed to us (Matt. 25:14-15, Luke 12:48, John 9:41).

Ahhhh, yes - ad hoominem attackas ALWAYS follow when a persn is backed into a corner . . .

Your failure is that you don’t understand that “Tradition”, by definition, is the Word of God that we DON’T read on the pages of Scripture . . .

I suggest you invest in a dictionary . . .

No – all you've done is offer some nonsensical “explanation” for your perversions . . .

You're not well. I'll leave you to yourself. Thanks!

 

[GracePeace]

For goodness sake Behold !
This means we could throw out all of what Jesus said.

He spoke in farming terms and shepherding terms and goats and sheep
and oil running out and masters going away and leaving financial matters
and seeds that need to be planted, etc etc

So WHICH of Jesus' parables and analogies do you think we should discard??

Maybe we could make a list and pass it around?

John 15:2
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Is Jesus talking about growing grapes?
Maybe He left heaven and came to this place to plant some grapes?


So what IS Jesus teaching?:

1. Every branch IN CHRIST.....
If a branch is IN CHRIST...that branch - I mean that PERSON - is saved.

2. IF that branch/person, that IS SAVED, does NOT bear fruit...it is taken away, cut down, severed, removed.

3. And look at this: God PRUNES branches that are producing fruit (grape?) so that they can produce EVEN MORE!

I think FRUIT is referring to GOOD WORKS/DEEDS in order to further the Kingdom of God.
NOT the making of wine.

Lol
It's not that they don't know God, a lot of these people, it's just that they had a lop-sided, incompletely informed view.

 

[GodsGrace]

Lol
It's not that they don't know God, a lot of these people, it's just that they had a lop-sided, incompletely informed view.

Behold knows God.

Honestly, these modern fandangled ideas are making me crazy!!

 

[GodsGrace]

You're not well. I'll leave you to yourself. Thanks!

Yeah. The other member is very determined.
Maybe too much??!!

 

[GracePeace]

Yeah. The other member is very determined.
Maybe too much??!!

I love determination, only not when it is devoted to dishonesty lol If you look at the "discussion" you'll see what I'm talking about--but if you don't want to bother, believe me, I wouldn't blame you lol (there's too much drama on this forum that is supposed to be about plain truth)

 

[GracePeace]

For goodness sake Behold !
This means we could throw out all of what Jesus said.

He spoke in farming terms and shepherding terms and goats and sheep
and oil running out and masters going away and leaving financial matters
and seeds that need to be planted, etc etc

So WHICH of Jesus' parables and analogies do you think we should discard??

Noooo! That was for Jews under the Old Covenant! Whatever Jesus said to them isn't for the New Covenant believers (even though Jesus DID say "go make disciples of all nations and have them observe whatever I taught you") lol!

 

[GodsGrace]

Noooo! That was for Jews under the Old Covenant! Whatever Jesus said to them isn't for the New Covenant believers (even though Jesus DID say "go make disciples of all nations and have them observe whatever I taught you") lol!

What about this:

" Jesus said this BEFORE the cross" (so it's not valid)

I'm so happy that God is a merciful God.

 

[GracePeace]

What about this:

" Jesus said this BEFORE the cross" (so it's not valid)

Yes! Lol you cracked the code! FINALLY THE BIBLE MAKES SENSE NOW! ‍

Yeah, I've heard that one before--you come across the wackiest things on these forums! Lol

 

[Behold]

For goodness sake Behold !
This means we could throw out all of what Jesus said.

What it means, is that being born again, is eternal.

You can't end it, because you didnt cause it.

Chrisitianity is not caused by the sinner........its received by the sinner, and its completed BEFORE they recieve it.

This is Salvation 101, and God knows that most Christians will never understand it, because they are trying to DO IT..., and its already been FINISHED by Jesus on the Cross.

So, If a Chrisitan can't understand this, then they are going to try to find verses that dispute it.
THey are always going to run from forum to forum trying to prove you can "Lose it", because they they dont understand "IT".

Salvation is not understood by anyone who believes it can be lost., and trying to explain it to them, just pushes them farther into their self righteousness, and self deception.

And thats unfortunate for them.