The mysteries in the Gospels “Who Do You Believe? The Witnessed Words of Jesus or Paul’s Private Vision?”

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LoveYeshua

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Jesus often spoke about the mysteries of the kingdom of God. When the disciples asked why He spoke in parables, He answered, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13:11; Mark 4:11; Luke 8:10). These mysteries were not locked away for a few; Jesus used parables to reveal truth to those willing to listen and then explained each one clearly to His disciples in private so that they would understand fully (Mark 4:34). Among these mysteries was the nature of God’s kingdom: it would begin small like a mustard seed yet grow to shelter many (Matthew 13:31–32); it was of such surpassing value that those who truly understood would give up everything to gain it, like finding hidden treasure or a pearl of great price (Matthew 13:44–46); and at the end of the age, there would be a separation between the righteous and the wicked, like a net gathering fish of every kind, keeping the good and casting away the bad (Matthew 13:47–50). He warned that not all who called Him Lord would enter, but only those who do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21–23).

Jesus emphasized that His teachings were not secret or hidden: “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet; and in secret I have said nothing” (John 18:20). Everything He taught was confirmed by many witnesses—His twelve disciples who were with Him day and night and the crowds who heard His words and saw His works. Another mystery He revealed was that the kingdom would not come with signs that people could point to, for “the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:20–21). He said this because many expected an earthly kingdom with visible power, but God’s rule begins inside the hearts of those who believe, repent, and submit to Him. While He was not directly speaking of the Holy Spirit, He later promised that the Spirit of truth would live in His followers, guiding them into all truth and making the reign of God a reality within them (John 14:16–17; John 16:13–15). He also revealed the mystery of His mission as the promised Messiah, the Lamb of God who would lay down His life for the forgiveness of sins (John 1:29; Matthew 26:28), fulfilling what had been written by the prophets. These mysteries were not meant to remain hidden, for He blessed His disciples, saying, “Blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear” (Matthew 13:16–17).

Paul, many years later, also spoke of a “mystery” but in very different terms. He said that his gospel did not come from any man nor was it taught to him, but that it came through a direct revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:12). Unlike Jesus, who taught publicly and with many witnesses, Paul’s claimed revelation had no witnesses and was not confirmed by the apostles who had walked with Jesus or anyone else. Paul described his mystery as “that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel” (Ephesians 3:6; Colossians 1:26–27), that salvation was now offered apart from the works of the law to both Jews and Gentiles. He also called the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of believers “a mystery” (1 Corinthians 15:51–52).

Yet Jesus had already revealed that many from the east and west would sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 8:11; Luke 13:29) and had commanded that the gospel of the kingdom be preached to all nations (Matthew 24:14). He had already shown that true faith was proven by obedience to God’s commandments and by bearing fruit. The mysteries Jesus revealed were witnessed by His disciples, fulfilled by His works, and aligned with the Law and the Prophets. Paul’s mysteries rest solely on his own testimony, with no witnesses to confirm his claims. Because of this, one must be careful and always weigh Paul’s words against the words of Jesus, for Jesus alone declared, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Matthew 24:35). His mysteries are the sure foundation, openly given and confirmed by those who walked with Him.
 
M

Muna

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It does say here

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

And accordingly Paul saw a vision, wherein he received his instruction

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision

But if we go back, it was not necessarily a private vision, because here it says

Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

Who is receiving his instruction as far as Paul goes, and the Lord is being a witness between two men.

The Lord testifies to Ananias what Paul saw in his vision

Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

Same as with Cornelius and Peter

Peter saw a vision and was wondering what it could be in (Acts 10:19) and so did Cornelius in Acts 10:3 It says

Acts 10:3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him,
and saying unto him, Cornelius. And in Acts 10:5 Cornelius also received his intruction from the Lord who said, And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:

So both Pete and Cornelius had the Lord as a witness between them in their visions which are spoken of in Joel beforehand. Just as Paul and Ananias had the Lord as a witness between them in their visions according to what is spoken of in Joel. So I wouldnt say they were exactly private but a safegaurd and according to what was spoken beforehand.

Edit: typo
 
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LoveYeshua

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Joel 2:28 is clearly or the end times and was not in application then but I know the end times are upon us NOW. I do believe Jesus appeared to Paul and he was converted this is not disputed but... I just want to let people know witnesses are not only important but essential to confirm events like Paul's "mysteries hidden from the beginning of the world". Jesus our lord insist that witnessing is important this can be found as well in the O.T. I have no doubt jesus appeared to Paul on his way to damascus but i am not certain of his mysteries he received about 14 years after his conversion preaches them, Jesus was clear about mysteries with no witnesses and one must be careful and verify all things. see Matthew 24:26.
“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

Jesus was clear. We must be cautious and compare everything with what Jesus was teaching always.
 
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Muna

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Here is Joel

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall
see visions
:

Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

And here is Peter concerning what is written in Joel, saying

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams
:

And as Peter and Cornelius and Paul and Ananias all had visions between them accoring to the prophesy beforehand, and the Lord himself bearing a witness between every one of them and Luke who recorded Acts has this written for us as a testimony, it shows it come to pass. Each one receiving their own instruction and each other as a witness along with the Lord.

Joel says, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy

And we see Philip the evangelist's daughters are shown doing just that

Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
 
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Muna

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Jesus said,

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Paul also said,

1 Cr 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Jesus said of the others he spoke in parable to that

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

And so Paul said,

2 Cr 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Who also said,

1 Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory
 
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“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

Jesus was clear. We must be cautious and compare everything with what Jesus was teaching always.

LoveYeshua, how might the above apply? I think I might be missing it.

Unless you mean test what people say because there is so much false witnesses out there
 

ScottA

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Jesus often spoke about the mysteries of the kingdom of God. When the disciples asked why He spoke in parables, He answered, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13:11; Mark 4:11; Luke 8:10). These mysteries were not locked away for a few; Jesus used parables to reveal truth to those willing to listen and then explained each one clearly to His disciples in private so that they would understand fully (Mark 4:34). Among these mysteries was the nature of God’s kingdom: it would begin small like a mustard seed yet grow to shelter many (Matthew 13:31–32); it was of such surpassing value that those who truly understood would give up everything to gain it, like finding hidden treasure or a pearl of great price (Matthew 13:44–46); and at the end of the age, there would be a separation between the righteous and the wicked, like a net gathering fish of every kind, keeping the good and casting away the bad (Matthew 13:47–50). He warned that not all who called Him Lord would enter, but only those who do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21–23).

Jesus emphasized that His teachings were not secret or hidden: “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet; and in secret I have said nothing” (John 18:20). Everything He taught was confirmed by many witnesses—His twelve disciples who were with Him day and night and the crowds who heard His words and saw His works. Another mystery He revealed was that the kingdom would not come with signs that people could point to, for “the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:20–21). He said this because many expected an earthly kingdom with visible power, but God’s rule begins inside the hearts of those who believe, repent, and submit to Him. While He was not directly speaking of the Holy Spirit, He later promised that the Spirit of truth would live in His followers, guiding them into all truth and making the reign of God a reality within them (John 14:16–17; John 16:13–15). He also revealed the mystery of His mission as the promised Messiah, the Lamb of God who would lay down His life for the forgiveness of sins (John 1:29; Matthew 26:28), fulfilling what had been written by the prophets. These mysteries were not meant to remain hidden, for He blessed His disciples, saying, “Blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear” (Matthew 13:16–17).

Paul, many years later, also spoke of a “mystery” but in very different terms. He said that his gospel did not come from any man nor was it taught to him, but that it came through a direct revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:12). Unlike Jesus, who taught publicly and with many witnesses, Paul’s claimed revelation had no witnesses and was not confirmed by the apostles who had walked with Jesus or anyone else. Paul described his mystery as “that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel” (Ephesians 3:6; Colossians 1:26–27), that salvation was now offered apart from the works of the law to both Jews and Gentiles. He also called the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of believers “a mystery” (1 Corinthians 15:51–52).

Yet Jesus had already revealed that many from the east and west would sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 8:11; Luke 13:29) and had commanded that the gospel of the kingdom be preached to all nations (Matthew 24:14). He had already shown that true faith was proven by obedience to God’s commandments and by bearing fruit. The mysteries Jesus revealed were witnessed by His disciples, fulfilled by His works, and aligned with the Law and the Prophets. Paul’s mysteries rest solely on his own testimony, with no witnesses to confirm his claims. Because of this, one must be careful and always weigh Paul’s words against the words of Jesus, for Jesus alone declared, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Matthew 24:35). His mysteries are the sure foundation, openly given and confirmed by those who walked with Him.
You misunderstand.

Jesus announced what was to come as "greater works" than He in fact did, which Paul was a part of, and Peter before him. Peter received that Jesus was the Messiah directly from the Father--no witnesses, no others receiving the same message, but at that time Peter alone--which Jesus confirmed. That was to be the way of things going forward...and so they have been.

But men of little faith, not seeing the promises of Jesus come in physical form as had been done among Israel, assumed what He had foretold had not even occurred, and began to speculate their own doctrine based on their own lack of understanding, and hearing. Which you now seem to align with.

But Paul, he heard, and went against his former beliefs and understanding...as have a few, in alignment with what Jesus actually foretold.
 
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Behold

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Paul’s claimed revelation had no witnesses and was not confirmed by the apostles who had walked with Jesus or anyone else.

What you wrote is not true.
Typical of you to be deceptive, as you are trained to be so by your cult.

Now...In fact the Apostles, the remaining, who met Paul were astounded that the very one who had been the enemy of Jesus, now Preached Jesus. 'Crucified", as The Gospel......= His.
Eventually all of the Apostles preached "Paul's Gospel"., and any one who preaches any other is cursed..... = Galatians 1:8, as is their "gospel".

Peter stated that Paul's letters, (The epistles) were equal to the TORAH.......Peter said that Paul's letters are "Scripture" and that was before any NT ever showed up.

Galatians 1:8, is where you find people who "can't deal with Paul", and that's where they will remain.

So, the way to understand what Paul was called to do, after Jesus was back in Heaven.....is to understand that once The Cross of Christ birthed the NT church.....then the "time of the Gentiles began".
None of the original 11 knew this.......except for Paul.......and that is because the NT Church, is mostly Gentiles, and there is a Specific Gospel given during the "time of the gentiles", and Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles".
This is why the NT is filled with epistles and most are written by Paul.
This is why the Church Doctrine is written by Paul.
So, to understand "doctrine for the church", you study Paul., and when you find someone who has no use for Paul, then you have found a thoroughbred heretic........ a devout Heretic.
Be certain you avoid that one.
 
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LoveYeshua

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Here is Joel

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall
see visions
:

Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

And here is Peter concerning what is written in Joel, saying

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams
:

And as Peter and Cornelius and Paul and Ananias all had visions between them accoring to the prophesy beforehand, and the Lord himself bearing a witness between every one of them and Luke who recorded Acts has this written for us as a testimony, it shows it come to pass. Each one receiving their own instruction and each other as a witness along with the Lord.

Joel says, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy

And we see Philip the evangelist's daughters are shown doing just that

Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
you are absolutely right, I forgot some prophecies have dual meaning this in one of them, Jesus had clearly said that Jerusalem would be destroyed, more specifically the temple within this generation and it did happen, if we look at Joel 2 it is also for the end times that will happen soon. thank you for saying so!
 

LoveYeshua

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What you wrote is not true.
Typical of you to be deceptive, as you are trained to be so by your cult.

Now...In fact the Apostles, the remaining, who met Paul were astounded that the very one who had been the enemy of Jesus, now Preached Jesus. 'Crucified", as The Gospel......= His.
Eventually all of the Apostles preached "Paul's Gospel"., and any one who preaches any other is cursed..... = Galatians 1:8, as is their "gospel".

Peter stated that Paul's letters, (The epistles) were equal to the TORAH.......Peter said that Paul's letters are "Scripture" and that was before any NT ever showed up.

Galatians 1:8, is where you find people who "can't deal with Paul", and that's where they will remain.

So, the way to understand what Paul was called to do, after Jesus was back in Heaven.....is to understand that once The Cross of Christ birthed the NT church.....then the "time of the Gentiles began".
None of the original 11 knew this.......except for Paul.......and that is because the NT Church, is mostly Gentiles, and there is a Specific Gospel given during the "time of the gentiles", and Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles".
This is why the NT is filled with epistles and most are written by Paul.
This is why the Church Doctrine is written by Paul.
So, to understand "doctrine for the church", you study Paul., and when you find someone who has no use for Paul, then you have found a thoroughbred heretic........ a devout Heretic.
Be certain you avoid that one.
show me from scripture the witnesses where paul received the mystery gospel, who was there to confirm?

the disciples never changed their gospel they preached what Jesus preached as he instructed them prove otherwise if you can. Peter did not trust Paul I can prove this, also I know about 2 peter 3:15. Paul changed over time and perched something else at some point I can explain also but one thing at a time, consider that if you preach something different from what Christ preached, you might be the devoted heretic to be avoided. do You teach a different gospel from Jesus?

please do not tell me they are the same, people can see they are not the same. what you went through is called indoctrination.
 

LoveYeshua

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LoveYeshua, how might the above apply? I think I might be missing it.

Unless you mean test what people say because there is so much false witnesses out there

Matthew 24:26.
“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

“If they say, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out.”

Paul’s revelation happened on the road to Damascus, which is literally a desert region (Acts 9:1–9). He claimed to see Jesus in this isolated place, apart from the apostles or public teaching. Jesus warns us not to believe such desert “appearances” that try to claim He is secretly revealing Himself somewhere hidden.
“Or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.”
This symbolizes private, hidden revelations given behind closed doors. Paul said he received his gospel by revelation directly from Christ, not taught by the apostles or publicly (Galatians 1:12, 16). This private “inner room” revelation contradicts the open, public teaching Jesus gave His disciples jesus made the point to say that he never kept anything or said anything in secret. "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. 21 Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said. (John 18:20-21) all Jesus said and did was fully witnessed always.
“For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west...”
Jesus says His coming will be visible and unmistakable, like lightning flashing across the whole sky. Paul’s revelation was secret, gradual, and confined to his letters, not a universal, visible event.

About testimony and why it is so important;

Jhn 5:30 I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jhn 5:31 If I testify about Myself, My testimony is not valid.

Jhn 5:32 There is another who testifies about Me, and I know that His testimony about Me is valid.

Jhn 5:33 You have sent to John [the baptist], and he has testified to the truth.

Jhn 5:34 Even though I do not accept human testimony, I say these things so that you may be saved.

Jhn 5:35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you were willing for a season to bask in his light.

Paul had no one to confirm his Mystery. So one must be cautious.
 

LoveYeshua

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You misunderstand.

Jesus announce what was to come as "greater works" than He in fact did, which Paul was a part of, and Peter before him. Peter received that Jesus was the Messiah directly from the Father--no witnesses, no others receiving the same message, but at that time Peter alone--which Jesus confirmed. That was to be the way of things going forward...and so they have been.

But men of little faith, not seeing the promises of Jesus come in physical form as had been done among Israel, assumed what He had foretold had not even occurred, and began to speculate their own doctrine based on their own lack of understanding, and hearing. Which you now seem to align with.

But Paul, he heard, and went against his former beliefs and understanding...as have a few, in alignment with what Jesus actually foretold.
paul did greater works than jesus? really?

Be also careful about sings and wonders as jesus said in Matthew 24:24;For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. Yes Jesus did say this! so does this prove Paul was legitimate! >CAUTION<.

As for Peter and the 12, no witnesses? Peter received all he knows as well as the Holy spirit from Jesus directly! everyone knows this, Is Jesus being one with GOD not a valid witness? Peter followed Jesus everywhere and they the 12, lived together for 3 years! no witnesses?
 
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Muna

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Matthew 24:26.
“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

“If they say, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out.”

Paul’s revelation happened on the road to Damascus, which is literally a desert region (Acts 9:1–9). He claimed to see Jesus in this isolated place, apart from the apostles or public teaching. Jesus warns us not to believe such desert “appearances” that try to claim He is secretly revealing Himself somewhere hidden.
“Or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.”
This symbolizes private, hidden revelations given behind closed doors. Paul said he received his gospel by revelation directly from Christ, not taught by the apostles or publicly (Galatians 1:12, 16). This private “inner room” revelation contradicts the open, public teaching Jesus gave His disciples jesus made the point to say that he never kept anything or said anything in secret. "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. 21 Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said. (John 18:20-21) all Jesus said and did was fully witnessed always.
“For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west...”
Jesus says His coming will be visible and unmistakable, like lightning flashing across the whole sky. Paul’s revelation was secret, gradual, and confined to his letters, not a universal, visible event.

About testimony and why it is so important;

Jhn 5:30 I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jhn 5:31 If I testify about Myself, My testimony is not valid.

Jhn 5:32 There is another who testifies about Me, and I know that His testimony about Me is valid.

Jhn 5:33 You have sent to John [the baptist], and he has testified to the truth.

Jhn 5:34 Even though I do not accept human testimony, I say these things so that you may be saved.

Jhn 5:35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you were willing for a season to bask in his light.

Paul had no one to confirm his Mystery. So one must be cautious.

I posted this on another thread but he speaks of US not just himself regarding the same, I am emphasing with extra letters the mention of the same


Stewards plural of the mysteries or the mystery


See plural in Ephesians here

Ephes 1:9 Having made known unto USSSSSSSSSSS the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

See plural in Ephesians here also

Ephes 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostleSSSSSSSSS and prophetSSSSSSSSSS by the Spirit;
Ephes 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephes 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Plural again here

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his SAINTSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Plural again

Col 4:3 Withal praying also for USSSSSSSS, that God would open unto USSSSSSS a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am ALSO in bonds

So when he is speaking of himself

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Is not exclusive of the others, he just calls it my gospel, just like the doctrine of Jesus Christ was not really his doctrine but the Father' which sent him.

Similarly, plural

1 Cr 7:7 But WEEEEEEEEEEE speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto OURRRR glory.

Again, Plural

1Cr 4:1 Let a man so account of USSSSSSSSSS, as of the ministerSSSSS of Christ, and stewardSSSSSSS of the mysteries of God.
 

ScottA

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paul did greater works than jesus? really?

Be also careful about sings and wonders as jesus said in Matthew 24:24;For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. Yes Jesus did say this! so does this prove Paul was legitimate! >CAUTION<.

As for Peter and the 12, no witnesses? Peter received all he knows as well as the Holy spirit from Jesus directly! everyone knows this, Is Jesus being one with GOD not a valid witness? Peter followed Jesus everywhere and they the 12, lived together for 3 years! no witnesses?
You are not rightly dividing the word of truth, but are apparently mixing things on the cusp between the natural miracles and acts of God given to Israel, and those "greater works" which Christ said would occur going forward in and with the Spirit. Both Peter and Paul, as did that entire generation, experienced both the natural miracles that were for a time, and also those "greater works" of the Spirit which began at Pentecost.

So, yes, according to Jesus, Paul would experience those "greater works" to follow. Which, incidentally, continue even to this day, as the works of the Spirit are greater than those of the flesh and of this world.
 

WitnessX

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Paul doesn’t teach a different Gospel. Don’t get it twisted. He met with and vetted through all the apostles just as it says in Acts multiple times. Further more, John, Peter, or any number of other Apostles would have flat out said don’t listen to Paul if he was teaching a different Gospel than what they were teaching. He wasn’t.
 
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LoveYeshua

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You are not rightly dividing the word of truth, but are apparently mixing things on the cusp between the natural miracles and acts of God given to Israel, and those "greater works" which Christ said would occur going forward in and with the Spirit. Both Peter and Paul, as did that entire generation, experienced both the natural miracles that were for a time, and also those "greater works" of the Spirit which began at Pentecost.

So, yes, according to Jesus, Paul would experience those "greater works" to follow. Which, incidentally, continue even to this day, as the works of the Spirit are greater than those of the flesh and of this world.
sorry but I disagree this is not was Jesus was teaching.

Jesus never said that any of His followers, including Paul, would do works greater in power or importance than His own. When He said, “He who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father” (John 14:12, NKJV), He was not speaking of works that would surpass His own. His works—raising the dead, healing all who came to Him, commanding storms, and giving His life as the perfect sacrifice—cannot be outdone. The “greater” works refer to the wider reach of the gospel after He returned to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ earthly ministry was mostly among Israel, but after Pentecost His disciples carried the same message of repentance, forgiveness, and the kingdom of God to all nations. The power is the same Spirit of Christ working through them, not works that exceed His.
Peter and the other apostles, under the Holy Spirit, did many mighty signs in Jesus’ name, but never claimed to do anything greater than their Master. Even Paul himself admitted that he was “the least of the apostles” and did not compare himself to Christ. Jesus alone is the source and measure of all true works of God. The Spirit glorifies Christ, not men, and nothing done by any servant can ever be greater than what the Son of God has already accomplished.
 
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LoveYeshua

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Paul doesn’t teach a different Gospel. Don’t get it twisted. He met with and vetted through all the apostles just as it says in Acts multiple times. Further more, John, Peter, or any number of other Apostles would have flat out said don’t listen to Paul if he was teaching a different Gospel than what they were teaching. He wasn’t.
this is your perception but not what the bible teaches as Jesus warned many times that false teachers would come in His name and deceive many. He said, “Take heed that no one deceives you” (Matthew 24:4) and “by their fruits you will know them” (Matthew 7:20). He also said that His words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48).

Paul was not among the twelve whom Jesus personally chose, taught, and sent out to preach the gospel. Jesus gave His gospel to His disciples, commanding them to teach “all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:20). He did not say that anyone else would later bring a new or corrected message.

The gospel is what Jesus Himself taught: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17) and “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). No teaching that changes or adds to His words can stand. Jesus alone is the Master, and we are to hear Him above all others: “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” (Mark 9:7).

If anyone’s message does not fully match the words of Christ, it is not the gospel of Christ.
 

ScottA

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sorry but I disagree this is not was Jesus was teaching.

Jesus never said that any of His followers, including Paul, would do works greater in power or importance than His own. When He said, “He who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father” (John 14:12, NKJV), He was not speaking of works that would surpass His own. His works—raising the dead, healing all who came to Him, commanding storms, and giving His life as the perfect sacrifice—cannot be outdone. The “greater” works refer to the wider reach of the gospel after He returned to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ earthly ministry was mostly among Israel, but after Pentecost His disciples carried the same message of repentance, forgiveness, and the kingdom of God to all nations. The power is the same Spirit of Christ working through them, not works that exceed His.
Peter and the other apostles, under the Holy Spirit, did many mighty signs in Jesus’ name, but never claimed to do anything greater than their Master. Even Paul himself admitted that he was “the least of the apostles” and did not compare himself to Christ. Jesus alone is the source and measure of all true works of God. The Spirit glorifies Christ, not men, and nothing done by any servant can ever be greater than what the Son of God has already accomplished.
This has not been a discussion. You can indeed disagree with the truth...but, man, you have really twisted what Jesus actually said.
 

LoveYeshua

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This has not been a discussion. You can indeed disagree with the truth...but, man, you have really twisted what Jesus actually said.
On the contrary I have always said the exact thing Christ said, you follow Paul obviously and not Christ , if you did you would not say what you said, so prove that I twist what Christ said and did if you can.
 

David in NJ

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Joel 2:28 is clearly or the end times and was not in application then but I know the end times are upon us NOW. I do believe Jesus appeared to Paul and he was converted this is not disputed but... I just want to let people know witnesses are not only important but essential to confirm events like Paul's "mysteries hidden from the beginning of the world". Jesus our lord insist that witnessing is important this can be found as well in the O.T. I have no doubt jesus appeared to Paul on his way to damascus but i am not certain of his mysteries he received about 14 years after his conversion preaches them, Jesus was clear about mysteries with no witnesses and one must be careful and verify all things. see Matthew 24:26.
“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

Jesus was clear. We must be cautious and compare everything with what Jesus was teaching always.
i do not see any contradictions from the apostle Paul's writings to the Gospel.

Do you?