RLT63
Well-Known Member
No, I have the NET full notes version, it has footnotes on everything. I'm certainly not a KJO
Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
The "Word of the Lord" appears in the bible more than you'd guess, and not in the place you'd guess.
It's mostly in the Old Testament, and looks like this...
Isa 38:4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying...
With modern eyes, I first read this to say Isaiah received a message. But if we consider "the Word of the Lord" to be a person, then this is a divine visitation, not just a revelation. I am about 90% sure that the apostles read it the latter way, based on how they quote it.
That's curious.
If correct, the Prophets delivered a PERSON, not a message? (Christophany)
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It should be remembered that the Bible is a reference to the various modern language translations. We ought to be talking about the Original NT manuscripts, the Autographa.
For example, in GJohn 3:16 the KJV has "the only begotten son." This is found in the English translations but not in the original NT manuscripts.
The original autographs are gone. All we have is copies of copies of copies...
Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot
There are three major competing Greek sources to use for translating the New Testament: the Critical Text, the Majority Text, and the Textus Receptus. The science of assembling these manuscripts is called “Textual Criticism”, and you can consider this a complete Textual Criticism 101 article...
www.bereanpatriot.com
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This is a common misunderstanding. We do have the words of the original autographs. We do not have the pieces of paper that they were written on, but we definitely have the original words.The original autographs are gone. All we have is copies of copies of copies...
Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot
There are three major competing Greek sources to use for translating the New Testament: the Critical Text, the Majority Text, and the Textus Receptus. The science of assembling these manuscripts is called “Textual Criticism”, and you can consider this a complete Textual Criticism 101 article...
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@St. SteVen,
I know its hard to read the bible in general. It shows us that we aren't even worthy of God's mercy because we all have our sins we deal with and we aren't called to judge others.
It's all about faith in Jesus, and listening to Yeshua, in order to be healed, in our hearts. Because that is all by the spirit and Jesus words are spirit.
have you ever heard of the
Hawai‘i Pidgin (HWP)
19 Going from dea, he spock James an his brudda John. Zebedee dea fadda. Dey inside da boat fixing dea nets. 20 Right den an dea he tell um fo come wit him. Dey go way from dea fadda Zebedee who stay inside da boat wit da workas, an dey go wit Jesus.
I know its hard to read the bible in general. It shows us that we aren't even worthy of God's mercy because we all have our sins we deal with and we aren't called to judge others.
It's all about faith in Jesus, and listening to Yeshua, in order to be healed, in our hearts. Because that is all by the spirit and Jesus words are spirit.
have you ever heard of the
Hawai‘i Pidgin (HWP)
John Baptize Jesus
9 Dat time, Jesus come from Nazaret town, Galilee side, an John wen baptize him inside da Jordan River. 10 Right den Jesus wen come up outa da water. An you know wat? Jesus wen see da sky broke open, an wen spock Godʼs Spirit coming down on top him, jalike one dove. 11 An wow! Had one voice from da sky wen say, “You my boy! I really get love an aloha fo you, an I stay good inside cuz a you!”Da Devil Try Make Jesus Do Bad Kine Stuff
12 Right afta dat, Godʼs Spirit wen make Jesus go inside da boonies. 13 Had wild animals ova dea. Jesus, he wen stay dea forty days. Da Devil try presha him fo make him do bad kine stuff, but he neva. An had angel messenja guys from God dat wen come an take care him.Jesus Start Fo Teach Galilee Side
14 Latas, King Herod wen throw John Da Baptiza Guy inside da prison. Afta dat, Jesus go Galilee side, an he tell da peopo da Good Stuff From God. 15 He tell, “Time awready! God stay King hea now. You guys gotta come sorry fo all da bad kine stuff you guys doing, an no do um no moa. An da Good Stuff From God I telling you guys, you guys gotta believe um!”Jesus Tell Four Fisha Guys Fo Come Wit Him
16 Dat time Jesus stay walking by Galilee Lake, an he spock Simon an his brudda Andrew. Dey throwing dea net inside da water, cuz dey fisha guys. 17 Jesus tell um, “Eh you guys! Come wit me! Be my guys! Da way you guys bring in da fish, I goin teach you guys how fo bring in peopo fo be my guys too!” 18 Right den an dea, dey wen leave dea nets an go wit him.19 Going from dea, he spock James an his brudda John. Zebedee dea fadda. Dey inside da boat fixing dea nets. 20 Right den an dea he tell um fo come wit him. Dey go way from dea fadda Zebedee who stay inside da boat wit da workas, an dey go wit Jesus.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Translation aside, people may misunderstand the words of the Bible without the help of the Holy Spirit.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
If correct, the prophets received a PERSON who delivered the message to them. In other words, Jesus visited the Old Testament prophets a lot to deliver the messages
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Really,there is only one Gospel and one message of,from , God-Jesus.
I've got to say that what I've witnessed at work in this community is not any who would know that.
When someone misrepresents God's words,it isn't then God's words. It is their own.
And if they happen to be wrong,their heart is open to correction. As God says.
However,if they're obstinate, sarcastic,resort to ridicule, mockery,and condescension,then they,as Jesus says,of their father the Devil.
God's word is eternal.
Those who intend to abuse it and God's faithful by extension, are not.
I've got to say that what I've witnessed at work in this community is not any who would know that.
When someone misrepresents God's words,it isn't then God's words. It is their own.
And if they happen to be wrong,their heart is open to correction. As God says.
However,if they're obstinate, sarcastic,resort to ridicule, mockery,and condescension,then they,as Jesus says,of their father the Devil.
God's word is eternal.
Those who intend to abuse it and God's faithful by extension, are not.
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pandaflower
Well-Known Member
And under this separate post I think it vital to clarify something.
Versions are divisive.
There is a reason God tells us,he is The Word. As Jesus God was The Word made flesh.
The language printed on the page in any version is a starting point for a study to begin .
However,the pages of print are not meant to be a by rote obedience table for you to follow and beforehand know a myriad of languages so to define what is actually being said in any given version.
The first to hear Jesus' message were largely illiterate. They didn't have to know Koine,common,Greek in order to receive the message.
The actual Good News arrives through the spirit of God in that former worldly natural minded sinner whom God entered and made open and able to understand the call to repentance.
That's why those in the spirit,with the spirit within them, understand the word of God. Without any published versions all.
God is a spirit. And must be worshipped in Spirit.
Versions are divisive.
There is a reason God tells us,he is The Word. As Jesus God was The Word made flesh.
The language printed on the page in any version is a starting point for a study to begin .
However,the pages of print are not meant to be a by rote obedience table for you to follow and beforehand know a myriad of languages so to define what is actually being said in any given version.
The first to hear Jesus' message were largely illiterate. They didn't have to know Koine,common,Greek in order to receive the message.
The actual Good News arrives through the spirit of God in that former worldly natural minded sinner whom God entered and made open and able to understand the call to repentance.
That's why those in the spirit,with the spirit within them, understand the word of God. Without any published versions all.
God is a spirit. And must be worshipped in Spirit.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
If we say the Bible is God inspired, do we really think its's core/ essence is negated by translation? Do we really think that God is unable to navigate translations? Do we really shackle God by our opinions of a, let's say, Chinese translation, Russian translation, Inuit translation etc? or are we so up ourselves, we insist on certain English translations?
Of course many do because their view of God is so restricted they can't but help superimposing their limitations onto God. They have made a God out of their particular preference of translation
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
The Bible is not the Word of God. It is one of the two main methods of transmission of the Word of God, the other being oral. The Bible is a TOOL of the Church founded by Christ, not a be-all, end-all, do-it-yourself kit. Are you guilty of bilbliolotry?
Keep in mind that whenever Jesus or the Apostles refered to the Scriptures, the were referring to the Old Testament because the New Testament had not yet been written.
The Church founded by Christ preceded the Bible. The Bible was not assembled into one book with a set canon until the late 4th century. Add to that the fact that the vast majority of humanity was illiterate until the late 1800's or later. A Bible-reading, self-interpreting approach would have excluded the vast majority of humanity. I don't think that's what Christ would have wanted. He founded a Church and told them to go forth and preach and teach what He taught them.
Reading your posts, you aren't connecting any dots you seem to want to connect. Throwing Scriptures out with no point or analysis is like blindly throwing out corn from a moving car, hoping to plant a field.
There is a lot you are not accounting for in your post. We have way too many manuscript copies, and none of them are identical.
You would do well to read the article I provided.
Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot
There are three major competing Greek sources to use for translating the New Testament: the Critical Text, the Majority Text, and the Textus Receptus. The science of assembling these manuscripts is called “Textual Criticism”, and you can consider this a complete Textual Criticism 101 article...
www.bereanpatriot.com
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While the Bible itself may not be the literal embodiment of the Word of God—who was born of the Virgin Mary and revealed to us as Yeshua—it undeniably contains the words of God. For those who seek Yahavah in spirit and in truth, Scripture offers healing, wisdom, and encouragement.
The Bible is a powerful guide, but it must be approached with reverence and spiritual insight. Some may misuse it, especially if they read without the Spirit’s guidance. The Spirit, after all, is not confined to the pages of Scripture; it works beyond them, illuminating truth in the hearts of those who truly seek.
The Old Testament scrolls were once considered the Word, but the true and living Word came in the person of Yeshua. His words hold transforming power and point the way to a deeper relationship with Yahavah, through worship in spirit and truth—something that remains as vital now as ever.
Even the Apostle Paul, at times, shared thoughts rooted in personal reflection alongside spiritual revelation. His writings blend insight from the old covenant with the new revelations he received through his walk with Yeshua.
Reading the Bible daily isn't a strict requirement—but sincere study, even periodically, can nourish the soul. Those seeking Yahavah with honest intent will find reward, and the Spirit will guide their understanding as they invite God into the process.
I’ll admit, consistent study can be challenging. I’ve personally struggled to read through the Gospels in full recently, and that's something I’m working on. Still, I recognize what the Spirit produces when we choose to prioritize God—not the book itself, but the presence of Yahavah—and worship Him in spirit and truth through prayer in Yeshua’s name.
May this serve as an encouragement to anyone reading: you’re not alone in the journey, and your sincere seeking truly matters.
The Bible is a powerful guide, but it must be approached with reverence and spiritual insight. Some may misuse it, especially if they read without the Spirit’s guidance. The Spirit, after all, is not confined to the pages of Scripture; it works beyond them, illuminating truth in the hearts of those who truly seek.
The Old Testament scrolls were once considered the Word, but the true and living Word came in the person of Yeshua. His words hold transforming power and point the way to a deeper relationship with Yahavah, through worship in spirit and truth—something that remains as vital now as ever.
Even the Apostle Paul, at times, shared thoughts rooted in personal reflection alongside spiritual revelation. His writings blend insight from the old covenant with the new revelations he received through his walk with Yeshua.
Reading the Bible daily isn't a strict requirement—but sincere study, even periodically, can nourish the soul. Those seeking Yahavah with honest intent will find reward, and the Spirit will guide their understanding as they invite God into the process.
I’ll admit, consistent study can be challenging. I’ve personally struggled to read through the Gospels in full recently, and that's something I’m working on. Still, I recognize what the Spirit produces when we choose to prioritize God—not the book itself, but the presence of Yahavah—and worship Him in spirit and truth through prayer in Yeshua’s name.
May this serve as an encouragement to anyone reading: you’re not alone in the journey, and your sincere seeking truly matters.
I worked for the author of the source you mentioned. I took Textual Criticism by Dan during our travels to Europe. You said that none of the manuscripts are identical, but I think you misunderstood what Dan said. No two mss are identical from beginning to end. The thousands of manuscripts agree in content (the very words). Take all the manuscripts together that are of Ephesians, they are basically the same. What Dan says is that the variants of the manuscripts are basically insignificant (a statement made by Bart Erhman also).There is a lot you are not accounting for in your post. We have way too many manuscript copies, and none of them are identical.
You would do well to read the article I provided.
Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot
There are three major competing Greek sources to use for translating the New Testament: the Critical Text, the Majority Text, and the Textus Receptus. The science of assembling these manuscripts is called “Textual Criticism”, and you can consider this a complete Textual Criticism 101 article...
[
The moveable nu accounts for most errors. Misspellings account for lots of variants. I worked in the Textual Criticism area for Dan, I consider myself highly trained in TC. Lastly, what Dan showed in the article you mentioned, is that there are a large number of variants between that Textual Receptus and the Majority text.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
The Number of Variants - Daniel Wallace | Free Online Bible
Compared to other ancient literature, the field of Biblical textual criticism possesses “an embarrassment of riches.” New Testament TC absolutely dwarfs the
www.biblicaltraining.org
I think one should emphasize that we do have the originals WORDS of the autographs. In other words, we do not have the old pieces of paper, but we have recreated those manuscripts in the Critical Text. Dan says we actually have 103% of the words of scripture, what work needs to be done now is to remove the dross (the 3%).
A work in progress?
When will we have a Bible? ( a real unbiased translation)
In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?
Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible. Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs. What's wrong with this picture? Misplaced allegiance. Religious fiefdoms. Building walls, instead of bridges. - What is...
www.christianityboard.com
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