Thats just the title of the thread by the orginator of it. He typically battles that way, but he isnt around on it, and its fizzled out into just talking.
Why direct attention over to a heated discussion that doesnt really exist?
Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan
- Thread starter Matthias
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Thats just the title of the thread by the orginator of it. He typically battles that way, but he isnt around on it, and its fizzled out into just talking.
Why direct attention over to a heated discussion that doesnt really exist?
This is a spillover thread.
“Christian vs. Christian” is a common feature in the “Christians Only ” forums. I use the feature that hides them.
Whats a spillover thread?
I was just about to jump on it and grab someones post and say, "Quick! Make like you are arguing with me, the devil thread thinks we are really going at it, and we need to make this look good"!
Whats a spillover thread?
I was just about to jump on it and grab someones post and say, "Quick! Make like you are arguing with me, the devil thread thinks we are really going at it, and we need to make this look good"!
“Christians” are doing in this forum what “Christians” are typically doing in “Christians Only” forums.
I think it’s more serious than you do.
That's what spillover means? I would not have known this.
I just got your book in yesterday, I really like it by the way. Thanks
This thread was started by me on behalf of a “Christian” - whom most “Christians” don’t acknowledge is “Christian” - in an effort to encourage that “Christian” to stop derailing my thread on the gospel.
There is nothing “Christian” members can say or do which will persuade this particular “Christian” that the devil is a fallen angel. He laid out his case in this thread. Few care, unfortunately, but my thread on the gospel unfolded without his mocking distraction.
I don’t agree with everything the author writes in the book but I have at times found it helpful. Read it critically and, as an old Jewish bookseller once wrote to me -
”As with with all sources that you read & study, I hope you will ‘eat the meat and spit out the bones’ when reading this book. Shalom -“
* The book I purchased from the unnamed bookseller over a quarter of a century ago is The Real Messiah? A Jewish Response to Missionaries, authored by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan. I still have the personal, handwritten wisdom note, stuck inside the front cover of the book; precisely where he put it.
And now I am derailing your derailment thread (but you started it!) lol
I totally understand, I found a few already I didnt agree with, and I wouldnt expect perfection in any book and I will always eat the chicken and spit out the bones whenever reading one. Gees, outside of recipe books (which I own alot of) I dont read books outside of the scriptures. I havent read any in over 30 years. Someone might peek my interest in one (as you did) now and again and I have purchased a handful over the course of time but I could never read but a handful of pages and would just simply lose interest. But I liked the idea of the one you suggested because it isn't a heavy reader and there were a couple sayings I was curious about, I think you posted a couple of them on that other thread, so I was like, Yep, I gotta get this one.
I read 5 pages (so I'm chugging along). I started in the middle somewheres, hoping to do a few pages a night.
This thread itself began as a derailment thread. @Hiddenthings once had my attention but he doesn’t any longer. He lost that privilege; not because of his theology (I’ve known it for almost half of my life now - and I agree with much of it) but because of his haughty spirit. Christadelphians aren’t all like him. Readers can see that for themselves in this thread. @TrevorHL has my attention, and will keep it, because of his gracious and gentle spirit.
I encourage people to read widely, deeply, thoughtfully, and critically. But above all, I encourage people to read the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament - the scriptures.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
You have displayed an arrogance far more damaging than mere mischief. You’ve taken on the role of teaching others, yet hold to errors, and, I might add, show a reluctance to correct them.
What I find truly encouraging about statements like the one above is that the evidence is right here for anyone to read and examine. Matthias played the role of the innocent dove, only to turn and use my beliefs against me, like a ravenous wolf.
He lacks the humility to recognize this, and I highly doubt he ever will. His perspective has been firmly shaped over years of walking the same theological path and never veering from it!
It reeks of hypocrisy! a genuine attempt to defend the very position he created. I’m not surprised; just look at the responses so far. Can anyone truly define a creature that doesn’t even exist?
Yes, Matthias! Perhaps when you descend from your lofty heights, you’ll be able to offer some substance to your misguided fallen angel theology. Until then, you hold no integrity in this discussion.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting point, @Truly. When Christians are asked to provide any instance in Christ’s ministry where he taught about this creature or clearly interacted with it, they are unable to do so.
Do you think this is significant given the noise Christians make concerning this so called evil creature?
So the verse he used to say that Jesus himself does not believe that the devil is a fallen angel is this one in John Ch. 8 .Christadelphians aren’t the only ones who don’t believe the devil is a fallen angel. It is a distinctive doctrine held by some other groups. I’m providing a link to an article written by someone representing the Christian Science church for the consideration of my readers.
Satan is NOT a Fallen Angel ~ The Bible Speaks to You
Who am I to disagree with Billy Graham? Not to mention so many Christians, who believe that Satan was once an angel. Oh well, here goes. While I deeply appreciate and revere Reverend Graham's or anyone's, commitment to Christ and all they have done to bring the message of salvation to the world...thebiblespeakstoyou.com
What catches my eye in this article is his argument that Jesus himself does not believe that the devil is a fallen angel.
What are you doing - according to this man and the church which he represents - if you believe the devil is a fallen angel? You’ve become an adversary of Jesus.
This is no trivial matter.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
I would say the beginning spoken of here is mankind's beginning in the Garden of Eden not Satan's beginning .
Just because it says there is no truth found in him does not mean Satan will not use the the truth to further a lie .
The father of lies , yeah that started in the Garden of Eden .
A talking snake , really ? Well there is more to it than that . Nahash , shining one .
Hebrew Word Study: SERPENT or SHINING ONE (NAHASH) — #Christianity #Jesus #Bible — Dr. Eitan Bar | Bible Scholar
To the modern reader, the serpent of Genesis 3 seems fantastical—mythic, even absurd. A snake that speaks? Really?
eitan.bar
I think it goes back to the devil’s beginning, long before man’s beginning.
That’s when the devil began lying to mankind.
A talking snake , really ? Well there is more to it than that . Nahash , shining one .
Hebrew Word Study: SERPENT or SHINING ONE (NAHASH) — #Christianity #Jesus #Bible — Dr. Eitan Bar | Bible Scholar
To the modern reader, the serpent of Genesis 3 seems fantastical—mythic, even absurd. A snake that speaks? Really?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Interpreting this section is straightforward if you're willing to search the Scriptures with an open mind, rather than relying on false assumptions. If you'd like assistance, I'm happy to share the keys to unlock it.
No such origin story exists in the Bible - which is the issue with this teaching...it's all a fabrication in the mind
Spend some quality time in John 8 and you will find what was in the mind of your Lord.Just because it says there is no truth found in him does not mean Satan will not use the the truth to further a lie .
The father of lies , yeah that started in the Garden of Eden .
A talking snake , really ? Well there is more to it than that . Nahash , shining one .
Hebrew Word Study: SERPENT or SHINING ONE (NAHASH) — #Christianity #Jesus #Bible — Dr. Eitan Bar | Bible Scholar
To the modern reader, the serpent of Genesis 3 seems fantastical—mythic, even absurd. A snake that speaks? Really?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
No origin story!
Such a frustrating doctrine to hold when you have nothing to pin your beliefs on.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Yes, he appeared as a serpent in the Garden of Eden, and Scripture tells as he can appear as an angel of light, and that he goes about like a roaring lion. I don't think the bible gives us a description of his appearance - as you say, he can appear in a variety of guises, and more often than not, he doesn't actually appear, but sends his temptations into our hearts. I have been tempted by Satan countless times, but he has never physically appeared to me.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Sorry, where did I acknowledge that my perspective is rooted in mythological beliefs? I posted in response to someone who had pasted a cartoon Satan with a red cloak and horns. I said such a belief (of Satan's appearance) owes more to the false Greek god Pan than to biblical descriptions of Satan. I didn't mention my beliefs about Satan in that post, but for the record, I will say that the bible does not tell us what Satan looks like.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
You are mixing different context's here David.
1. Is an animal more cunning than all the beasts of the field which God has made.
The other
2. The Pharisees who were pretending to something they were not.
If you want a more thorough explanation of 2 Corith 11:14 let me know.
3. Paganism and its influence on first-century believers
No one in history has ever witnessed a being devouring people at will. Understanding the symbolism is essential, but your approach reveals how easily one can be misled by combining three unrelated portions of Scripture to form a false conclusion
Understandible as how can it provide any discriptor if its not true!
All this is just the notions of misinformed men and women with over active imaginations.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
You believe in a fallen angel so no need to deny the obvious.
Correct - a common misconception which speaks to its origins.
Correct.
Correct.
I’m able to connect the dots, David. Where you leave out certain details, I can draw the necessary conclusions, especially since there’s no historical evidence outside of what’s found in pagan sources.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I am not mixing things. The bible says that Satan, the devil and the serpent are the same entity:
Re 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Re 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
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