Now you're just talking to hear your own voice. If there are NO works then thats 0 works. You're babbling now. James says faith is completed by works. No works = dead faith. AGAIN how can a dead faith be salvific?
Is it possible to lose salvation?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Dead faith, is not dead Salvation.
Think of it like this..
Faith is not the Savior, it can't save you.
God saves you through your faith...........ONE TIME.......and you are "saved".
Like this...>""(God's) Grace ... through FAITH".
So, that is not faith saving you, that is God saving you, because you gave Him your faith in Christ.
Its DONE.
Later if you have a dead faith issue, or a faith crisis........this happens after you are already SAVED.
No God saves us through Jesus dying in the cross. Our faith in that salvation is completed by works like James says
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
actually your the one babbling
Paul said no works..and yes, that equals 0 works
so you have james saying works
paul saying no works.
they both can not be right.
so resolve the contradiction. or are you like some and believe pauls writtings should be removed from scripture?
Yes, faith is completed by works. actually it means perfected. The more we take steps of faith (works) the greater our faith becomes
That is not how we save ourselves though. if we do not have faith (it is dead) we are not saved. period..
He did not say no works he said no to works of the law. Nice try though. He also never said faith alone. You know who did say, faith alone? James! And he said yiunae it said by faith alone but works AND not by faith alone. You have to be playing stupid now.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No he did not say works of the law
rom 4: rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS
the word law is not used
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all
the word law is not used
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK
the word law is not used
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN
the word law is not used
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
the word law is not used
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST
the word law is not used
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
the word law is not used, nor is the word works used
nice try, But you will need to go back and try again
Nice try
but he said no works. no works equals 0 works. equals faith alone
again, show me the word trinity in the word.
Your reasoning is not only flawed. it is in error
Behold
Well-Known Member
Your Salvation is completed by Jesus on The Cross..., 2000 yrs ago., before you were born.
A person's works are the same as they were before they became a Christian.
Notice.
What works can you do, after you are saved, that you could not do when you were not?
See, works are just works........they're just deeds,..,. self effort..... and any hell bound sinner can give to the poor, and be water baptized and go to church and pray to Mary.
Works are NOTHING before God.......nothing.
They are just works.........
What God accepts to accept you, is Jesus's Blood and Death. @nedsk
Marymog
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You and @Eternally Grateful crack me up.
When the two of you agree with each other you puff out your chest and agree that you shouldn't listen to other members of this forum that "appear to be minor children". Wow....Real Christian like of ya' to degrade a fellow Christian! Good job
I wonder if you will apologize? Probably not....
According to you two bible scholars' when others "make assertions regarding the Bible" they 'make you laugh' because, according to the two of you, THEY are in error, and you two aren't in error.
Well, that is until you disagree with each other. Then you accuse the other of being in error. You would attack each other and then sit there with a serious face each one accusing the other of making an 'errant assertion'.......all the while no one is taking you serious except yourself.
Why 'should anyone listen to you' when @ProDeo @nedsk have done an incredible job of rebutting every assertion you have made?
Curious Mary
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
They've been babbling for quite some time.
They're hoping we will continue to "babble" thinking to reach them through their profound ignorance of the Gospel.
They're not here to learn or show respect for the faith.
Faith is completed by works and a man is saved by works AND not faith alone. You can cry all you like but thats what it says. You ignore it. I understand why.
Marymog
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Hey nedsk,
FYI...... @Eternally Grateful will never admit to being wrong and ignores Scripture that doesn't line up with what his men have taught him. I think "stupid" is a strong word for EG. He is not stupid. He just cherry picks Scripture to fit what he believes. Chosen blindness? My point is...I'm not sure how much effort you want to put into this discussion. You proved him wrong. Now it's up to him to accept or reject the truth!
Respectfully, Mary
Behold
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yawn
dude, your stuck like a broken record.
James 2 is not the whole of the word.
You have paul and james contradicting each other
I got a suggestion. Stop listenign to me. Get on your knees. Pray. And ask God to share why James and paul appear to be contradicting each other
I already solved the contradiction and posted it a few days back.. You can look at it. Or continue on this path.
But its up to you.
You have nothing to show me but a broken record skipping with the same tune over and over...
the fact you refuse to even acknowledge or look at the verses I keep giving, and showing me where I am wrong. shows me you can not argue against them
this helps grow my faith. not weaken it
Thank you for helping to grow my faith in God
First I agree
Second I didn't call EG stupid I said EG was playing stupid.
Third EG is wrong which is why EG must be playing stupid.
Good advice but the level of denial that people like EG exhibit with Scripture needs to be hammered against constantly. It's driving people away from the truth.
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I guess scripture is a broken record then since it has said the same thing for 2000 years. You're coming undone at the seams. James is CLEAR..a man is saved by works AND not by faith alone. If James wrote, "The apple is red" you'd tell me that he didnt say that if I told you the apple was red. its fun watching a "Bible believing" Christian ignoring the bible.
BTW can you show that anything you believe was taught by the church before the 1500?
I'll take your laughter below as a No. Id laugh too if you weren't so lost.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Here I will show you
John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
all of this was before the 1500's inspired by God himself.
Again, Stop following men, and Follow God
You can not even refute these verses. you just stick to james and one sentence.
again,, You need to stop and study..
The question isn't whether or not belief is necessary. You cant follow what I'm saying but I'm supposed to think you know what James is saying???? The question is, is faith sufficient? The answer is No. Not because I said so Scripture says so. Look I understand why you're so troubled. You've been sold a bill of goods that is useless.
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I think Romans 4 is particularly clear that the one who is justified is the one who is NOT working for it.
To the one who does not work, his faith is accounted for righteousness. Not the one who is working for it.
So this claim that works are required for salvation actually disqualifies the one who thinks this.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Paul makes this clear in a few places.
Not of works lest anyone should boast
If it is grace it is not of works.
Not by works of righteousness we have done but by his mercy
and again, in romans 4. to him who works his deeds are not counted as grace but debt.
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