Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[RandyDawson]

Then you better watch out, because I didn't say that, you did. I brought up that he doesn't recognize that Jesus took away our sin, and that Jesus is our sacrifice. Are you a bearer of false witness?

It sure seems like telling someone "This sounds like you've never heard of Jesus Christ!" is claiming that they aren't a Christian.
That's what you said in post #1,501

I'd like to see where I told someone they were not a Christian. Please provide the post number where I told someone they were not a Christian. Thanks.

 

[RandyDawson]

I'm wondering why she can be growing up into the ever-increasing traits of the Spirit and be legitimately born again but I can't.

Well the first error going on here is women trying to be in authority over men by teaching men.
Women need to teach children and other women and let the men be in authority as the scripture teaches.

 

[MostlyConfused]

If the person is in that specific place in their struggle where they know they have to forgive and they try, but the anger and unforgiveness keep coming back up, is that willful sin? Of course it isn’t. And I know you wouldnt tell them that. They agree on what is good but cant DO what they agree is good. They have received the down payment and have come to that place in their struggle where they have not yet moved from but I MUST forgive to oh my gosh I’ve tried for years and I finally see I can’t do it, I am not able to. To tell them they will go to the outer darkness because they are choosing WILLFULLY to continue in sin would not be correct or helpful for them. They would panic and thrash around and just go ANOTHER round of trying very hard to forgive the one who has abused them and then failing. And maybe they would then give up and turn back to the world, thinking: well I’m going to the outer darkness because what He says I must do I can’t do so I may as well stop trying and accept my fate. Or he might say, it’s all a crock and begin to hate God for being so cruel to demand something of him that is impossible for him. Or he might say and begin to teach others that it is impossible to ever stop sinning while here on earth, like Luther came to.
All he needs is to be helped to see that he is right to say it is impossible for him to do it but wrong to not trust that Jesus can do it in him and for him.

I’ll add to this that I read your post, Episkopos, about the specific type of sin of iniquity in one who has received the down payment of the Spirit (and listened to you talk of that in a podcast too) and I understand you to be saying it is to mix righteousness and holiness thereby degrading holiness and to claim to be what you are not. That is the iniquity that the churches teach and that a man must depart from or he will be cast into outer darkness.
That’s not the man I was trying to describe, although he could have picked up some of the teachings and get lost in that for a time. I was trying to see how to help someone stuck in self effort who has just not yet put it together that he is SUPPOSED to finally see he can’t perfect himself BUT that God can and that he has been taught wrongly to settle (after he has worn himself out) for the teaching that it is impossible in this life.
We can get righteousness and holiness all mixed up on our own, even WITHOUT being taught to do it by a church and its’ bad doctrines. My concern is to take care that I don’t bruise a bent reed. I’ll work it out with the Lords‘ help.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It sure seems like telling someone "This sounds like you've never heard of Jesus Christ!" is claiming that they aren't a Christian.
That's what you said in post #1,501

I'd like to see where I told someone they were not a Christian. Please provide the post number where I told someone they were not a Christian. Thanks.

He had been speaking of sinning and no sacrifices to cover them. So what about Jesus? He didn't mention Him who came for that very reason.

As for you telling them they weren't a Christian, you misquoted me and accused me of doing that, when I wasn't the one to bring up anyone's salvation - you did. Are you here trolling, trying to make trouble where none is to be found?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Okay…so then, we still have our flesh, are still able to sin, but that flesh/old man never does do after that any “lawless sin?” Could you explain/define “lawless sin” versus “sin?”

Lawless sin is breaking a Law - It is more than the Ten Commandments, it includes sorcery and teenage rebellion against their parents. What is odd in this day and age is that it doesn't include rape. The man must marry her and never divorce her. He is not stoned to death.

When you say "we still have our flesh, are still able to sin" that is wrong. Romans 8:9 says we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of
God dwells within us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Jesus.

It really starts in Romans 6:5-7, 17-19 and 22. "5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Peter 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

An important verse that some disregard as not worth much is "
Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 lest sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." MC, this is how you "keep yourself" in 1 John 5:18.