The extortion gospel - "believe or burn" - not really a choice

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XtraPercept

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This passage doesn't speak of an inheritance.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 YLT
10) According to the grace of God that was given to me, as a wise master-builder, a foundation I have laid, and another doth build on it ,
11) for other foundation no one is able to lay except that which is laid, which is Jesus the Christ;
12) and if any one doth build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
13) of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare it , because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove;
14) if of any one the work doth remain that he built on it , a wage he shall receive;
15) if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.

There is no mention of inheritance, rather of either reward or loss.

Our works are here described as being tested by fire, and compares the gold, and the silver, and the precious stones as building materials, the same with the wood, and the hay, and the stubble, all building materials.

The context, both before and after this part, concerns created division in the body of Christ. So the point here is, you are either building with the right stuff, or with the wrong stuff.

In my interpretation, this is to say you are either building up the body of Christ in love, such as described in Ephesians 4, or you are "building" with such as comes from one's self, and not the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you that the reward is not money. Some places speak of crowns, such as where Paul tells the Thessalonians that they are his crown of rejoicing when they will be in the Lord's presence. The reward is how joyful we will be when we see those to whom we have ministered in the glory of the Lord.

Daniel wrote that those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the sky, and those who turn many to righteousness as the stars of heaven forever.

I don't know that we really can conceive of exactly how it will be.

This is not a passage of the testing of faith as Peter describes, this is a judgment at the end our our lives.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 YLT
13) of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare it , because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove;
14) if of any one the work doth remain that he built on it , a wage he shall receive;
15) if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.

This is God's judgment of the results of our activity in this life.

On the other hand,

1 Peter 1:7 LITV
7) so that the proving of your faith, much more precious than perishing gold, but having been proved through fire, may be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

This is not about works, rather, that our faith be shown genuine as we endure the fiery trial.


The passage speaks for itself, no comment needed.

John 3:3-7 LITV
3) Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.
4) Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be generated, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?
5) Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
6) That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit.
7) Do not wonder because I said to you, You must be generated from above.

Much love!
I will take another look at 1 Corinthians 3 soon, I could be remembering it wrong. But it seems to me that taking a passage in isolation to explain a spiritual matter is like taking a single thread from a spider web to explain arachnids. Everything ties together magnificently, but it's just not so simple.

If a passage spoke for itself, denominations would not exist. I wrestled for decades over the exact same thing Nicodemus did. And I didn't "figure it out" any more than I placed Jesus into my heart of my own volition. The Lord shines His light as He will. Our place is simply to obey.
 

marks

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Did you choose when you were born? So do you think you get to choose when you're born again?
John 1:11-13 LITV
11) He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
12) But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name,
13) who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

We believe, we receive, but no, we do not "rebirth ourselves" nor are we rebirthed because we've chosen it to happen.

God has commanded us to believe, to receive His Son, and has told us that to those who do, He gives the right to become His children, and He gives them rebirth.

Much love!
 

marks

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Everything ties together magnificently, but it's just not so simple.
It may be a lot simpler than many seem to think! Just take things for the basic meaning according to the customary use of the language in the day it was written.

It's when someone can't reconcile two passages, so they make the fiat declaration, this part is metaphor/allegory/symbol/hyperbole so many different ways to overturn the meaning of a passage! And then off into the weeds they go. Because then they have to come up with what is does mean. And everyone comes up with their own version, for the most part.

But when we hold what it says, and find the harmony, we all come to the same answer, for the most part.

Much love!
 

pandaflower

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How do you explain your statement?
RCC history comes a century after NT history.

pandaflower said:
The RCC corrupted the truth of Christ all through the history of the NT.

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The NT was canonized by the Councils of Hippo in 393 AD and Carthage in 397 AD, where the 27 books we recognize today were affirmed.


The Romans Universal church,the RCC today, was founded in 325 AD.
 
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XtraPercept

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It may be a lot simpler than many seem to think! Just take things for the basic meaning according to the customary use of the language in the day it was written.

It's when someone can't reconcile two passages, so they make the fiat declaration, this part is metaphor/allegory/symbol/hyperbole so many different ways to overturn the meaning of a passage! And then off into the weeds they go. Because then they have to come up with what is does mean. And everyone comes up with their own version, for the most part.

But when we hold what it says, and find the harmony, we all come to the same answer, for the most part.

Much love!

I wrote hastily. I apologize. I think I see now what you meant using the Nicodemus situation as it pertains to fitness for the kingdom. It didn't seem to answer St. SteVen's inquiries at first, but it is indeed a matter independent the will and intent of men. And you are right, it is very easy to get caught up in what light one does have and lose track of the sun in the process.
 
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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
How do you explain your statement?
RCC history comes a century after NT history.

pandaflower said:
The RCC corrupted the truth of Christ all through the history of the NT.
The NT was canonized by the Councils of Hippo in 393 AD and Carthage in 397 AD, where the 27 books we recognize today were affirmed.


The Romans Universal church,the RCC today, was founded in 325 AD.
That supports my statements.
You wrote "the history of the NT.", not "the canon of the NT."

[
 

soberxp

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Is there a person in this world who is still determined to be an Antichrist when he sees God himself? Brother, terrible, haha.
 
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David in NJ

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What does "unfit for His Kingdom" mean?
Unfit for the kingdom = Titus 1:16
To the pure all things are pure,
but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.


Was the person whose works burned up unfit for His Kingdom?
He was still saved, right?
SAVED = YES
But their works are compared to "hay, wood and stubble" = therefore they burn up and hold no value befor eGod
 

St. SteVen

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Maybe his will....free gift.

太极生两仪,两仪生四象,四象生八卦.
1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

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Brakelite

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Is the gospel preached from most pulpits really a choice?
What are the stated consequences for refusing the "free gift" of eternal life?

The "believe or burn" gospel amounts to extortion.
A decision based on fear of the stated consequences for refusal.

- Does God honor a decision based on fear?
- Does God support the "believe or burn" gospel?
- If so, what sort of God is He?

--- PARODY ---

Person #1: Receive the free gift of eternal life.
Person #2: No thanks.
Person #1: I said it was free.
Person #2: There must be some strings attached.
Person #1: Well, of course.
Person #2: It's not a free gift then, right?
Person #1: You had better take it... or else!
Person #2: Say what?
Person #1: Otherwise you will be incinerated!
Person #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.

[
That view of the gospel extends not only to consequences and warnings from the pulpit, but from scripture itself. The Bible is clear that the choice is between life and death. Our choices have eternal consequences, as we are choosing between our Creator or an upstart pretender.
A more immediate concern as far as modern preaching is concerned has a profound impact on religious liberty. The soon coming prophetic picture of a government legislating worship ought to be one of the more pressing topics. But no-one it seems are worried, unless of course they support the idea.
 

St. SteVen

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The soon coming prophetic picture of a government legislating worship ought to be one of the more pressing topics. But no-one it seems are worried, unless of course they support the idea.
As far as I know, only SDAs believe that.
The world is busy celebrating diversity, not seeking religious conformity.

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