Is it possible to lose salvation?

[GodsGrace]

@Behold

The following is in post 1349.

Please respond to it instead of playing verse ping pong.
Thanks.


James 2:14-17
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your Part in God's Salvation, that is wrought in Christ's Sacrifice is to Believe it, and receive it.
See, Salvation is a Gift, and you dont work for a Gift.

I agree.
It’s not working FOR the gift – it’s working WITH the gift.

GOD created the works I do (Eph. 2:10). I simply complete them.

NEVER, is Salvation a "process".

A.) Salvation is JESUS on THE CROSS, offering Himself to God as your Salvation.
Dont leave earth without it @BreadOfLife

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8). This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it also says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

 

[nedsk]

or maybe we can stop looking at history. and look to the word. to see that the NT church believed in eternal security.

I know why you dont want to look at history. No one believed your drivel before the 1500s. I get it believe me.

 

[nedsk]

James teaches that He'll ""show you his faith by his works".
But he is not saying that the works complete faith, as Salvatoin is "Grace through faith" "without works"

Salvation is Jesus on the Cross, and you can't do that, as a work.
All you can do is receive His Sacrifice by FAITH, Believing... = and God will save you.

No he doesnt he says Faith without works is dead. How does a dead faith save you.

You also STILL havent explained how faith alone can be sufficient if it needs completion by works which James also teaches. I dont tolerate people who chose to ignore scripture they dont like. Your refusing to answer questions is also intolerable. You people love to preach but you hate to listen.

 

[Behold]

Could we see some scripture please.

"and noone is able to pluck you from my Hand".......Jesus said.

And that "noone" also means the Christian themself.

And then there is "and you shall never perish".........Jesus said.......>So, if you could lose your Salvation, then you would go to hell.
This is to "perish".....and Jesus said you never would.
And then there is "Christ in You, the hope of Glory".....and that means that the person has become the "temple of the Holy Spirit".
And Jesus said, i will never LEAVE YOU or Forsake YOU.........and that is being said to the Christian from inside them, were Jesus exists.
So, if they went to Hell, then Jesus is going with them, as He's never going to leave the Christian, from the inside of them.

Also, the Christian can't stop being Born again.

Also, the Christian is "Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption".. (Rapture) if you are alive or dead.....when the Chrisitan is "changed in the twinkling of an eye" and gets the new body, and receives the end of "their inheritance".

Also, God said that His "Gifts are without repentence"......and that means "i will not change it, undo it, or take it back, its forever".

And Salvation is a "GIFT".. the GIFT of Salvaiton.""".........so, its not going anywhere, even if the Christians is a horrible one, and there are plenty of them.

Then there is the fact that another of the "GIFTS" that is a part of Salvaiton is "the Gift of Eternal Life"......so that is another "GIFT" that can't be undone......as God wont ever let it end........because its '"without repentence".

 

[ProDeo]

sorry bro. but you have paul and james apposed, which means we have a bible that we can not trust.

What are you saying, that James was wrong?

 

[GodsGrace]

I know why you dont want to look at history. No one believed your drivel before the 1500s. I get it believe me.

Most will not study church history.
It's dangerous to one's doctrinal beliefs.
Better to believe the odd ideas that have recently come about.
Why believe what the Apostles taught?
It's not like they spent years with Jesus and learned from Him !
Sad stuff.

 

[GodsGrace]

"and noone is able to pluck you from my Hand".......Jesus said.

And that "noone" also means the Christian themself.

And then there is "and you shall never perish".........Jesus said.......>So, if you could lose your Salvation, then you would go to hell.
This is to "perish".....and Jesus said you never would.
And then there is "Christ in You, the hope of Glory".....and that means that the person has become the "temple of the Holy Spirit".
And Jesus said, i will never LEAVE YOU or Forsake YOU.........and that is being said to the Christian from inside them, were Jesus exists.
So, if they went to Hell, then Jesus is going with them, as He's never going to leave the Christian, from the inside of them.

Also, the Christian can't stop being Born again.

Also, the Christian is "Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption".. (Rapture) if you are alive or dead.....when the Chrisitan is "changed in the twinkling of an eye" and gets the new body, and receives the end of "their inheritance".

Also, God said that His "Gifts are without repentence"......and that means "i will not change it, undo it, or take it back, its forever".

And Salvation is a "GIFT".. the GIFT of Salvaiton.""".........so, its not going anywhere, even if the Christians is a horrible one, and there are plenty of them.

Then there is the fact that another of the "GIFTS" that is a part of Salvaiton is "the Gift of Eternal Life"......so that is another "GIFT" that can't be undone......as God wont ever let it end........because its '"without repentence".

Posting scripture means giving book, chapter and verse. I thought everyone knew this.

But OK except it has to wait till later now so I could post it for you.

 

[ProDeo]

lol.

You were OSAS?

Yep.

I was told.

But I changed my mind, some people are able.

when and why did you believe you had eternal life?

Because Scripture told me so, still do.

and when and why did you stop trusting God?

Eh ?

I did not, still not.

Why on Earth do you say that?

We are talking about the interpretation of Scripture passages, truth seeking, nothing to do trusting the Lord.

How serious do I take holiness?

How serious do you take the fact you can not live up to Gods standard.

101% serious.

Why do you think you can come to the presence of God with even one sin, let alone the sins we all commit. and think God will just look past our sin and let us in because we do some good works?

Why do you say I think that?

I don't.

Do you know God at all?

Ah, you could not resist, judgement.

 

[ProDeo]

No obedience to God...
No salvation.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

That.

 

[ProDeo]

"and noone is able to pluck you from my Hand".......Jesus said.

That's correct Behold.

But Jesus ALSO said -

Matt 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

So Jesus is talking about those who endured to the end (death).

 

[shepherdsword]

"and noone is able to pluck you from my Hand".......Jesus said.

And that "noone" also means the Christian themself.

And then there is "and you shall never perish".........Jesus said.......>So, if you could lose your Salvation, then you would go to hell.
This is to "perish".....and Jesus said you never would.
And then there is "Christ in You, the hope of Glory".....and that means that the person has become the "temple of the Holy Spirit".
And Jesus said, i will never LEAVE YOU or Forsake YOU.........and that is being said to the Christian from inside them, were Jesus exists.
So, if they went to Hell, then Jesus is going with them, as He's never going to leave the Christian, from the inside of them.

Also, the Christian can't stop being Born again.

Also, the Christian is "Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption".. (Rapture) if you are alive or dead.....when the Chrisitan is "changed in the twinkling of an eye" and gets the new body, and receives the end of "their inheritance".

Also, God said that His "Gifts are without repentence"......and that means "i will not change it, undo it, or take it back, its forever".

And Salvation is a "GIFT".. the GIFT of Salvaiton.""".........so, its not going anywhere, even if the Christians is a horrible one, and there are plenty of them.

Then there is the fact that another of the "GIFTS" that is a part of Salvaiton is "the Gift of Eternal Life"......so that is another "GIFT" that can't be undone......as God wont ever let it end........because its '"without repentence".

There are conditions to this:
1) My sheep hear my voice
2) I know them
3) They follow me
and THEN no man is able to pluck them from the Father's hand. If they don't follow then there is no guarantee

 

[Behold]

There are conditions to this:
1) My sheep hear my voice
2) I know them
3) They follow me
and THEN no man is able to pluck them from the Father's hand. If they don't follow then there is no guarantee

God does not put conditions on His Gift of Salvation.
Heretics do.

Listen, God does not require you to follow anything..........or perform anything.

What God requires is that you give Him your Faith in Christ and He will give you the "GIFT".. of Salvation.

Its Free, as Jesus earned it for us......so that SINNERS can have God's GIFT.. which is GOD's GRACE...., and become CHRISTians....for eternity.

 

[Behold]

Matt 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

JESUS is not talking about you behaiving until you are dead to earn salvation.

If you read what He said.... if you open a bible to Matt 24........He had already explained, in previous verses... that He was talking about a specific event, so that you know what He's prophecing.
Its also found in Daniel.

JESUS said, '""" when you see the abomination of desolation".............

See that? That is Jesus talking about the future Tribulation, as that is when the abomination happens.
So then He said....>"he that endures to the END"..........of THAT.......of the TRIB...........shall be saved.
The Body of Christ wont be in the Trib.
So, anyone who is, isnt a Christian, and you'll have to endure to the end of that 7 Yrs, ... and you'll probably be Martyr'd along the way.

 

[Behold]

Posting scripture means giving book, chapter and verse. I thought everyone knew this.

But OK except it has to wait till later now so I could post it for you.

I just post verses, or parts of them....from memory..... and if the person is a real student of the bible, they'll recognize them.

The reason that you believe that you can lose your salvation, is becasue you dont trust in Christ to keep you saved.
So, you are trying to do that, for yourself.
= It can't be done.
Trust in Christ instead, to keep you saved.
Give Him all the Credit due HIM for your ETERNAL Salvaiton, and stop try to take the credit for it , by all your "i must do this, and i must do that, to keep myself saved". = Legalism.

 

[Behold]

How does a dead faith save you.

.

Faith does not save anyone.
Did Faith die on The Cross?

Thats a NO...

See, Jesus is the Savior, not faith.

Now.....God accepts our faith, to the GIVE US, = Salvation.

And once we have it, its eternal., because its ETERNAL LIFE.

Later, if you have a faith crisis, you have it, after you already have Salvation which is Eternal Life.

Now if you are just water baptized and religious, then you hvae nothing but a cult teaching.

So, when i say, """you have salvation"""" this means you are BORN AGAIN..........not water bapotized,...... but BORN /Again by the Spirit of God and are become a "new Creation" IN CHRIST".
So, THAT is the proof you have Salvation......as the only proof is that you are BORN AGAIN............not water baptized, but BORN AGAIN.

Now, after you are born again, if you have a faith crisis, then you have it while being BORN AGAIN......so your Salvation never changes., as its an Eternal Gift from God., its Eternal Life.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"and noone is able to pluck you from my Hand".......Jesus said.
And that "noone" also means the Christian themself.

WRONG.
You can’t “pluck” yourself out of anything. You can voluntarily leave, though.

Jesus promises that nobody ELSE can take you away from Him. People are always blaming others for their having gone astray. You don’t get an excuse with Jesus because He promised that this couldn’t happen if you STAY faithful (Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Heb. 3:14, Rev. 2:10).

And Salvation is a "GIFT".. the GIFT of Salvaiton.""".........so, its not going anywhere, even if the Christians is a horrible one, and there are plenty of them.

Then there is the fact that another of the "GIFTS" that is a part of Salvaiton is "the Gift of Eternal Life"......so that is another "GIFT" that can't be undone......as God wont ever let it end........because its '"without repentence".

Scripture does NOIT teach this abomination. We don’t get to profess Christ – only to live a life of unrepentant sin. What do you think the Parable of the Ten Virgins (Matt. 25:1-13) is about? They were brides of the Groom (Christ). Yet, when He came for them – they were unprepared and were locked-out of the celebration.

In the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Matt. 25:13-20), the son had everything (salvation) - yet he threw it away. It was only through repentance and a change of heart that he restores his security.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

 

[Behold]

WRONG.
You can’t “pluck” yourself out of anything. You can voluntarily leave, though.

No you can't Leave, if you are a born again Christian,. How can you leave a Spiritual Birth.
You can't stop being born, and you can't stop being born again.

Also, a Christian is "blood bought", they are purchased by the Blood of Jesus, and are Eternally God's.

You dont control that.........not ever.

Jesus promises that nobody ELSE can take you away from Him.

Jesus said "nonone" , so that means the person, the Christian, themselves, can remove themselves from being "ONE with God" and "IN Christ".

You never read a verse that said that "they use to be seated in heavenly places"......or "they use to be born again".

Jesus is INSIDE THE BELIEVER.
He's not going anywhere, and if they have a mental problem, and believe they can leave him, then that is just too bad for them.
That is why we have to stay away from CULTS.....as they can ruin your faith, and have you trying to stay saved, instead of Trusting in Christ to keep you saved.

Hebrews 13:9 warns you about this.......Reader.

 

[GodsGrace]

JESUS is not talking about you behaiving until you are dead to earn salvation.

If you read what He said.... if you open a bible to Matt 24........He had already explained, in previous verses... that He was talking about a specific event, so that you know what He's prophecing.
Its also found in Daniel.

JESUS said, '""" when you see the abomination of desolation".............

See that? That is Jesus talking about the future Tribulation, as that is when the abomination happens.
So then He said....>"he that endures to the END"..........of THAT.......of the TRIB...........shall be saved.
The Body of Christ wont be in the Trib.
So, anyone who is, isnt a Christian, and you'll have to endure to the end of that 7 Yrs, ... and you'll probably be Martyr'd along the way.

You're speaking to @ProDeo .....

But I think you forgot to read Matthew 25 and just stopped at the desolation part.

Here is Matthew 25 where Jesus says: Depart from Me accursed ones.....


Matthew 25:35-43
35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent * that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'


See Behold, the above sounds a lot like:

Matthew 7:23
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

No talk of being born again or any other such idea.
Jesus is CLEAR:

Depart from me you who practice LAWLESSNESS.

And what is lawlessness?
The breaking of laws.

So YOU teach that there are no laws.
JESUS teaches that we better not break them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No you can't Leave, if you are a born again Christian,. How can you leave a Spiritual Birth.
You can't stop being born, and you can't stop being born again.

Also, a Christian is "blood bought", they are purchased by the Blood of Jesus, and are Eternally God's.

You dont control that.........not ever.

Jesus said "nonone" , so that means the person, the Christian, themselves, can remove themselves from being "ONE with God" and "IN Christ".

You never read a verse that said that "they use to be seated in heavenly places"......or "they use to be born again".

Jesus is INSIDE THE BELIEVER.
He's not going anywhere, and if they have a mental problem, and believe they can leave him, then that is just too bad for them.
That is why we have to stay away from CULTS.....as they can ruin your faith, and have you trying to stay saved, instead of Trusting in Christ to keep you saved.

Hebrews 13:9 warns you about this.......Reader.

Your free will is something that never leaves you in this life.
You ALWAYS have a choice and you will ALWAYS have a proclivity toward sin because of your fallen nature. Paul is crystal-clear about this in Romans 7:
Rom. 7:14-25
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

But Christians have a way OUT – through Christ:
Rom 7:21-25
So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Our struggle with sin endures through our entire LIFE – and that’s why we find verses that say:
Matt. 24:13
But the one who endures to the end WILL BE saved.

2 Tim.y 2:12
“IF we endure, we will also reign with him; if we DISOWN him, he will also DISOWN us.”

Rev.3:11
I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.