MY GOSPEL

[complete]

What basis do you have in saying there were two dispensations given Paul

Hello @Doug,

I missed this one, sorry.

The record of the word of God is the basis, for as I said in the entry you responded to.

'For though I preach the gospel,
I have nothing to glory of:
for necessity is laid upon me;
yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
but if against my will,
a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.'
(1Cor. 9:16-17)

'If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
which is given me to you-ward:'
(Eph 3:2)

'Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up that which is behind
of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His body's sake,
which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister,
according to the dispensation of God
which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whom we preach,
warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom;
that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:'
(Col 1:24-28)

'Having made known unto us the mystery of His will,
according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times
He might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
even in Him:'
(Eph 1:9-10)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Hello @Doug,

'And hath put all things under His feet,
and gave Him to be the head
over all things to the church,
Which is His body, (soma:- a sound whole)
the fulness of Him (pleroma:- fills up)
that filleth all in all.'
(Eph 1:22-23)

Note:- See Eph_1:10. His members "fill up" the body of Christ, and the body of Christ fills up and completes "the dispensation of the fulness of the times".

'Having abolished in His flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in Himself of twain (Jew & Gentile) one new man,
so making peace; (eirene:- to join)
And that He might reconcile both unto God
in one body by the cross, (soma:- a sound whole)
having slain the enmity thereby:'
(Eph 2:15-16)

'That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, (sugklēronomos:- joint heirs)
and of the same body, (sussōmos:- a joint body)
and partakers of His promise in Christ (summetochos:- joint partakers)
by the gospel:'
(Eph 3:6)

'There is one body, and one Spirit,
even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;'
(Eph 4:4)

'But speaking the truth in love,
may grow up into Him in all things,
which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body
fitly joined together and compacted (sunarmologeō:- joined together)(sumbibazō:- knit together)
by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working
in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body
unto the edifying of itself in love.'
(Eph 4:15-16)

'For the husband is the head of the wife,
even as Christ is the head of the church:
and He is the saviour of the body. (sōtēr - deliverer - only here)
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,
so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
(Eph 5:23-24)

See also:-Col 1:18; 1:24; 2:18-19; 3:15;
Please Compare:- 1 Cor. 12:12-31.

* It is over to you now, @Doug. If I find anything appropriate to add I will return.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hello @Doug,

In the entry quoted above I have listed the verses which refer to the one body of Ephesians, in order that a comparison can be made between the description given of the church which is the body of Christ there described, and the 'body' used as an illustration of the distribution of spiritual gifts in Corinthian, which I have referenced:-

Looking now at 1 Corinthians 12:12-31,

Again this is illustrative of how the corporate body of believers in Christ are one in Him. The individual parts of the human body, which performs different functions, are united in one purpose: there are feeble parts, uncomely parts and those less honourable, but all have a necessary role to play in the functioning of the whole. The assembly at Corinth are being instructed regarding the importance of each individual member, in Christ, performing the function that they have been gifted to perform:-

'And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,
after that miracles, then gifts of healings,
helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Are all apostles? are all prophets?
are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts:
and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.'
(1Co 12:28-31)

*That way is love (next chapter). Praise God!

* So the concept of the body of Christ is not new to Ephesians, but The Church which is The Body of Christ itself is.

For the church which is revealed in the epistles written by Paul from prison (Eph. Phil. Col. 2Tim, Tit. & Phile.) is not related to an individual assembly, or to it's membership individually, but to the meeting of Jew and Gentile believers as one united and equal whole. a joint body, comprising two very different companies, but the Jew no longer has precedence, for salvation is no longer of the Jew only, for in Acts 28:28 salvation is sent to the Gentiles, and the Olive tree of Israel would soon have been no longer there to be grafted into, having been destroyed and scattered among the nations, or martyred in AD70. This company now has Christ as it's Head, and draws it's nourishment from Him: the root and fatness of the Olive tree with it's spiritual gifts, and the blessings of Abraham, would be longer there to partake of. This is why the epistles written by Paul from prison, are so very important in relation to this beloved company: for in those epistles alone is God's creation of this joint body in Christ revealed, in which all is of the spirit, and spiritual.

There is more that could be said, Doug, but this is as far as I can go at the moment.

Thank you for engaging with me on this.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

Hello Doug,

The epistles written prior to the prison epistles of Paul contain the truths concerning The Mystery of Christ, for it was revealed to all the Apostles and Prophets including Paul: being the subject of the Old Testament prophets in type and shadow; but requiring the revelation of God to make it's truths visible

The Mystery revealed to Paul alone, was not the subject of earlier writings, either Old Testament, gospel record, or of any of the pastoral epistles, including Paul's own earlier works,: only in the prison epistles will you find that truth revealed, for it had been 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9 & Col. 1:26) from previous generations. There is no safer place to hide something than that. I believe God and therefore do not seek to find what God, through Paul, has told us has been hidden in Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It seems to me you are saying the mystery of Christ was is the OT scriptures but had to be revealed. If it was then it could not be a mystery. A mystery is not veiled knowledge. A mystery is hid in God and not disclosed in any form until revealed.

You still never addressed these points:

[Act 24:24-25 KJV] 24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

Paul reasoned of righteousness......what did he say?
My point is we don;t know all he said so we cant definitively say what is recorded is all he said

[Act 16:31-32 KJV] 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Same thing here ......what was the word of the Lord spoken? Not recorded

Besides this, we know from internal evidence, that epistles were written before the prison epistles and contained mystery revelation.
Here below are some of the epistles written before Acts 28 and prison.

[1Corithians 2:7 KJV] 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[1Corinthians 15:51 KJV] 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

[Romans 11:25 KJV] 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[Romans 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

 

[Doug]

'Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood,
to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness:
that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.'
(Rom 3:25-26)

Hello again @Doug, (OP)

There is no mystery here, Doug. Why have you used the word, 'mystery,' in regard to salvation?

I said Romans 3:25-26 was a mystery and you said it wasn't so I asked you to show me scriptures before Paul where they state how God could be just in forgiving Israel's sins....the blood of bulls and goats couldnt take away sins................[Heb 10:4 KJV] 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sin

This request still stands if you wish to do some searching and answer.......in the OT scriptures see if you can finf HOW God forgives sin......it's not by animal sacrifices

 

[Doug]

This Mystery, and 'the fellowship of the Mystery' was not the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, or Paul's earlier epistles, having been 'hid is God' since the world began: containing the 'unsearchable riches of Christ'

Correct me if wrong but are you saying the only mysteries that were not in OT scriptures were those found in the prison epistles?

 

[Doug]

'Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren,
that through this man (ie., Christ Jesus)
is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
And by Him (i.e., Christ Jesus) all that believe are justified from all things,
from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. '
(Act 13:38-39)

'Now when the congregation was broken up,
many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas:
who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.'
(Act 13:43)

'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith
without the deeds of the law.'
(Rom 3:28)

Hello @Doug,

Yes, Paul preached, 'the forgiveness of sins' and 'Justification by faith'. but we have shown this to be true in previous posts, I believe. Why have you drawn this to our attention?

Forgive me I'm tired.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I did so because you said all Paul preached was from Moses and the prophets.........[Act 26:22 KJV] 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:.........These verses from Acts 13 say otherwise.........acts 13 says they couldnt be justified by the law of Moses

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Note:- See Eph_1:10. His members "fill up" the body of Christ, and the body of Christ fills up and completes "the dispensation of the fulness of the times".

This is helpful. Thank you for sharing. I recently come across a post where the discussion was regarding “and fill up that which is behind” the end of the discussion was the majority said it’s not significant, meaning nothing really.
Colossians 1:24-27 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

To me the filling up of that which is behind …is to fill up that which lacks within His body. On the post regarding filling up what is behind…I think we most of the time apply it to the filling up of ourself. Instead of: 1 Corinthians 12:22-25 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be (which seem to be behind) more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, (behind) upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God has tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

That is why I loved you took the time to look closely at “fill up”. With your study of “fill up” what are your thoughts on ‘Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church’ and how…if the filling up of that which is behind is not significant why does it lead into the mystery?

'But speaking the truth in love,
may grow up into Him in all things,
which is the head, even Christ:

Speaking the truth in Love, may grow up into Him in all things….Love 1 Peter 2:1-3
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, [2] and like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, [3] if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

Note: ridding yourselves of all malice, and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, like newborn babies, long for the pure milk so that by it you may grow
…is their any better link to “you must become as a child”? 1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: however in malice be you children, but in understanding be men.

We can’t ignore when Paul says I fed you with milk, for you were not ready for the meat …we can’t ignore how often that is used to gloat over oneself that they are ready for the meat, and another (you, not themselves) need the milk. This is the angst of the word I think. Just like texting someone and you don’t get the full tone behind the words. Are they mad? Are they with love or sarcasm? I was taught Paul’s not ready for the meat, so I fed you with milk was Paul’s sarcasm. I’ve been told many times by men who think they have it all right and are theologians…””little girl you aren’t ready for the meat. Go find someone to feed you with milk. I don’t have time.” I don’t have a problem with sill needing pure milk, however when someone says this I do think they also have missed the love of the Spirit that fed them with pure milk. That is important to me because “speaking the truth in love, that you may grow…” what changed for me is….I truly do not think Paul was coming anywhere close to elevation of himself as a meat eater, but instead we witness time and time again Paul speaks the truth to them in love, having fed them with the pure milk so that they may grow by it, having tasted of the Lord is good…that they may grow up in all things by Christ to be strengthened, edified and prepared for every good work of the Lord to handle the meat as a mature man (no longer a child). Point is …if any one now uses Paul’s words of you can’t handle the meat to gloat and pat their own back for how much they have grown up in Christ…be aware it’s not spoken in love but it is glorying in the flesh (which Paul was not glorying in).

From whom the whole body
fitly joined together and compacted (sunarmologeō:- joined together)(sumbibazō:- knit together)
by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working
in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body
unto the edifying of itself in love.'
(Eph 4:15-16)

Love…makes increase of the body
Unto the edification of itself (a whole body joined together) in love.
2 Corinthians 6:10-13 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. [11] O you Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] You are not straitened in us, but you are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be you also enlarged.

 

[complete]

It seems to me you are saying the mystery of Christ was is the OT scriptures but had to be revealed. If it was then it could not be a mystery. A mystery is not veiled knowledge. A mystery is hid in God and not disclosed in any form until revealed.​

* Peter said:-
'Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time
the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
and the glory that should follow.'
(1Pet. 1:9-11)

* Paul said:-
'Now to Him that is of power to stablish you
according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
according to the revelation of the mystery,
which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest,
and by the scriptures of the prophets,
according to the commandment of the everlasting God,
made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:'
(Rom 16:25-26)

' ... ... the mystery of Christ
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;'
(Eph 3:4b-5)

Hi @Doug,

Yes, 'the Mystery of Christ' was prophesied by the Old Testament prophets concerning the grace of God, though they themselves did not know 'what?' or, ' what time?' was signified by the Spirit of Christ that was in them (1 Peter 1:9-11) when they did so. The Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament were, by the scriptures of those same Old Testament prophets, enabled to see and understand what was prophesied, by means of divine revelation.

You still never addressed these points:​

​

[Act 24:24-25 KJV] 24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.​

​

Paul reasoned of righteousness......what did he say?​

My point is we don;t know all he said so we cant definitively say what is recorded is all he said​

​

[Act 16:31-32 KJV] 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.​

​

Same thing here ......what was the word of the Lord spoken? Not recorded​

* Sorry I missed these Doug.

* Paul said to Agrippa, presumably under oath:-

'Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day,
witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things
than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:'
(Act 26:22)

* I believe what the Scriptures record here, that until this testimony of Paul was given to Agrippa in Acts 26, Paul said, 'none other things' when witnessing in obedience to the risen Christ, Who had said to him:-

'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;'
(Act 26:16)

Besides this, we know from internal evidence, that epistles were written before the prison epistles and contained mystery revelation.​

Here below are some of the epistles written before Acts 28 and prison.​

* The early epistles of Paul would have contained knowledge of, 'The Mystery of Christ', for the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament, had received divine revelation from God concerning it, which included Paul. This is why it was Paul's habit to speak to those interested parties he met concerning the prophesies of Christ in the Old Testament Scriptures.

[1Corithians 2:7 KJV] 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:​

[1Corinthians 15:51 KJV] 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,​

​

[Romans 11:25 KJV] 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

[Romans 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,​

* Yes, 'The Mystery of Israel's blindness' was revealed in the Roman epistle, and the mystery associated with resurrection, that those remaining till Christ returns, would not see death, was revealed by the Lord Jesus to Martha in John's Gospel at the time of the raising of Lazarus, and recorded in 1 Corinthians 15, and 1 Thess. 4.

Thank you
in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

I did so because you said all Paul preached was from Moses and the prophets.........[Act 26:22 KJV] 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:.........These verses from Acts 13 say otherwise.........acts 13 says they couldn't be justified by the law of Moses​

Hello @Doug,

I simply believe what is recorded in the word of God, and so I believe what Paul said to Festus in Acts 26:22:-

'Having therefore obtained help of God,
I continue unto this day,
witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things
than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer,
and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead,
and should shew light unto the people,
and to the Gentiles.'
(Act 26:22-23)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

;Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day,
witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things
than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer,
and that He should be the first that should rise from the dead,
and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.'
(Act 26:22-23)

'And when they had appointed Him a day,
there came many to him into his lodging;
to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God,
persuading them concerning Jesus,
both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets,
from morning till evening.
And some believed the things which were spoken,
and some believed not.'
(Act 28:23-24)

---------------------------------------
Hello @Doug

Please consider:-

'For therein is the righteousness of God revealed
from faith to faith:
as it is written, The just shall live by faith.'
(Rom 1:17)

'Now the just shall live by faith:
but if any man draw back,
my soul shall have no pleasure in him.'
(Heb 10:38)

* Compare Habbakuk 2:4:-

'Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him:
but the just shall live by his faith.'
(Hab 2:4)

* So justification by faith is found in the Old Testament Prophets, and I believe that all of what Paul preached prior to his appearing before Agrippa, and the testimony he made regarding the content of his preaching to that date, will be found to be confirmed in every regard. For God says what He means and means what He says, and Paul was the Apostle of the risen Christ, so would do likewise.

* I shall look for more examples.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I am not sure why you posted these verses
were these meant to answer how God forgives?
these verses dont show how he forgives only that we are forgiven by faith
plus you cant quote Romans for this....Paul reveals how.....scripture from the old testament only

 

[VictoryinJesus]

'Having abolished in His flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in Himself of twain (Jew & Gentile) one new man,
so making peace; (eirene:- to join)
And that He might reconcile both unto God
in one body by the cross, (soma:- a sound whole)
having slain the enmity thereby:'
(Eph 2:15-16)

Jew and gentile …I know this may sounds crazy but it reminds me of man and woman…Husband and Wife. As the Husband being a Jew, as being chosen of God as people ask why was it first only men? Yet, I can see the woman as the gentile …for in Himself of two (man and woman) to make one New Man. Christ.

'For the husband is the head of the wife,
even as Christ is the head of the church:
and He is the saviour of the body. (sōtēr - deliverer - only here)
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,
so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
(Eph 5:23-24)

Doesn’t the word also compare Jew and Gentile with Husband and wife, Man and woman.
Ephesians 3:5-6 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; [6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
1 Peter 3:7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.
Doesn’t this also help with Jew and Gentiles
Jews live with gentiles as with someone weaker, since she is a gentile…and show gentiles honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers be not hindered.
Yet there is a spirit in the world that wants to destroy the grace of life and forgo heirs of the promise …the angst of exclusion when the strong ought to support the weak. This world is the strong praising the strong!

 

[Doug]

Hello @Doug,

I missed this one, sorry.

The record of the word of God is the basis, for as I said in the entry you responded to.

'For though I preach the gospel,
I have nothing to glory of:
for necessity is laid upon me;
yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
but if against my will,
a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.'
(1Cor. 9:16-17)

'If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
which is given me to you-ward:'
(Eph 3:2)

'Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up that which is behind
of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His body's sake,
which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister,
according to the dispensation of God
which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whom we preach,
warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom;
that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:'
(Col 1:24-28)

'Having made known unto us the mystery of His will,
according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times
He might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
even in Him:'
(Eph 1:9-10)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I dont get from these verses how you can say he was given two dispensations
by the way the dispensation of the fulness of times is, I believe, in the future.....this is at the end of the kingdom on earth

 

[complete]

I am not sure why you posted these verses​

were these meant to answer how God forgives?​

these verses dont show how he forgives only that we are forgiven by faith​

plus you cant quote Romans for this....Paul reveals how.....scripture from the old testament only​

'Having therefore obtained help of God,
I continue unto this day,
witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things
than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer,
and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead,
and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.'
(Act 26:22-23)

Hello @Doug,

It is an example of what Paul would have included in his witness, gleaned from Moses and the Prophets:-

Chris said:-
Please consider:-

'For therein is the righteousness of God revealed
from faith to faith:
as it is written, The just shall live by faith.'
(Rom 1:17)

'Now the just shall live by faith:
but if any man draw back,
my soul shall have no pleasure in him.'
(Heb 10:38)

* Compare Habbakuk 2:4:-

'Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him:
but the just shall live by his faith.'
(Hab 2:4)

* So justification by faith is found in the Old Testament Prophets, and I believe that all of what Paul preached prior to his appearing before Agrippa, and the testimony he made regarding the content of his preaching to that date, will be found to be confirmed in every regard in their writings. For God says what He means and means what He says, and Paul was the Apostle of the risen Christ, so would do likewise.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

Hello @Doug,

In the entry quoted above I have listed the verses which refer to the one body of Ephesians, in order that a comparison can be made between the description given of the church which is the body of Christ there described, and the 'body' used as an illustration of the distribution of spiritual gifts in Corinthian, which I have referenced:-

Looking now at 1 Corinthians 12:12-31,

Again this is illustrative of how the corporate body of believers in Christ are one in Him. The individual parts of the human body, which performs different functions, are united in one purpose: there are feeble parts, uncomely parts and those less honourable, but all have a necessary role to play in the functioning of the whole. The assembly at Corinth are being instructed regarding the importance of each individual member, in Christ, performing the function that they have been gifted to perform:-

'And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,
after that miracles, then gifts of healings,
helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Are all apostles? are all prophets?
are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts:
and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.'
(1Co 12:28-31)

*That way is love (next chapter). Praise God!

* So the concept of the body of Christ is not new to Ephesians, but The Church which is The Body of Christ itself is.

For the church which is revealed in the epistles written by Paul from prison (Eph. Phil. Col. 2Tim, Tit. & Phile.) is not related to an individual assembly, or to it's membership individually, but to the meeting of Jew and Gentile believers as one united and equal whole. a joint body, comprising two very different companies, but the Jew no longer has precedence, for salvation is no longer of the Jew only, for in Acts 28:28 salvation is sent to the Gentiles, and the Olive tree of Israel would soon have been no longer there to be grafted into, having been destroyed and scattered among the nations, or martyred in AD70. This company now has Christ as it's Head, and draws it's nourishment from Him: the root and fatness of the Olive tree with it's spiritual gifts, and the blessings of Abraham, would be longer there to partake of. This is why the epistles written by Paul from prison, are so very important in relation to this beloved company: for in those epistles alone is God's creation of this joint body in Christ revealed, in which all is of the spirit, and spiritual.

There is more that could be said, Doug, but this is as far as I can go at the moment.

Thank you for engaging with me on this.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

If I am correct you are saying these verses I gave to show Paul spoke of the body of Christ before the prison epistles were not talking about the body of Christ only the church as a corporate body of believers

[Rom 12:5 KJV] 5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
[1Co 12:27 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

I say the above verses are about the body of Christ

[Eph 5:23 KJV] 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

The above verses shows that the church is the body
The gospels nor Acts speak of the church as being the body........only Paul calls the church the body of Christ

 

[complete]

@victoryinJesus,

'Having abolished in His flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in Himself of twain (Jew & Gentile) one new man,
so making peace; (eirene:- to join)
And that He might reconcile both unto God
in one body by the cross, (soma:- a sound whole)
having slain the enmity thereby:'
(Eph 2:15-16)

Jew and gentile …I know this may sounds crazy but it reminds me of man and woman…Husband and Wife. As the Husband being a Jew, as being chosen of God as people ask why was it first only men? Yet, I can see the woman as the gentile …for in Himself of two (man and woman) to make one New Man. Christ.

Hello @VictoryinJesus,
* Thank you for sharing ,I think I understand what you are trying to convey: that out of the union of Jew and Gentile in the Body of Christ, Christ is manifested. He certainly made such a union possible by taking down, at the cross, anything that would prevent such a union taking place, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity:-

'For He is our peace,
who hath made both one,
and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having abolished in His flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;'
(Eph 2:14-15)

Praise God!

@VictoryinJesus said:-

'For the husband is the head of the wife,
even as Christ is the head of the church:
and He is the saviour of the body. (sōtēr - deliverer - only here)
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,
so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
(Eph 5:23-24)

Doesn’t the word also compare Jew and Gentile with Husband and wife, Man and woman.
Ephesians 3:5-6 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; [6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
1 Peter 3:7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.
Doesn’t this also help with Jew and Gentiles
Jews live with gentiles as with someone weaker, since she is a gentile…and show gentiles honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers be not hindered.
Yet there is a spirit in the world that wants to destroy the grace of life and forgo heirs of the promise …the angst of exclusion when the strong ought to support the weak. This world is the strong praising the strong!

* Woh! You lost me there, but I can see what you are getting at. You are right that there is a spirit in the world that would destroy the grace of life: it is a matter of the strong praising the strong. See Romans 14:-

(1) Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
(2) For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
(3) Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not;
and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
(4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant?
to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord;
and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
(7) For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
(8) For whether we live, we live unto the Lord;
and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
(9) For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived,
that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
(10) But why dost thou judge thy brother?
or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord,
every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
(12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

PS:- We haven't spoken for a very long time, have we? I hope all is well with you. Love in Christ Jesus, Chris

 

[Doug]

Hello @Doug,

I simply believe what is recorded in the word of God, and so I believe what Paul said to Agrippa in Acts 26:22:-

'Having therefore obtained help of God,
I continue unto this day,
witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things
than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer,
and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead,
and should shew light unto the people,
and to the Gentiles.'
(Act 26:22-23)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

'Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren,
that through this man (ie., Christ Jesus)
is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
And by Him (i.e., Christ Jesus) all that believe are justified from all things,
from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. '
(Act 13:38-39)

May I respectfully say, aren't these verses recorded and to be believed.....Paul is not speaking of Moses and the prophets here, is he?

 

[complete]

If I am correct you are saying these verses I gave to show Paul spoke of the body of Christ before the prison epistles were not talking about the body of Christ only the church as a corporate body of believers

[Rom 12:5 KJV] 5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
[1Co 12:27 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

I say the above verses are about the body of Christ

[Eph 5:23 KJV] 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

The above verses shows that the church is the body
The gospels nor Acts speak of the church as being the body........only Paul calls the church the body of Christ

Hi @Doug,

You were supposed to contrast the verses which use the term, 'the body of Christ' in Corinthians with those in Ephesians, so that you can see how they differ - if at all. That is why I quoted the ones in Ephesians, and gave the references of those in Corinthian., If it is too much to take on at the moment I understand, but your response doesn't tell me why you reached the conclusion you have.

I will leave it here I think.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

'Having therefore obtained help of God,
I continue unto this day,
witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things
than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer,
and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead,
and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.'
(Act 26:22-23)

Hello @Doug,

It is an example of what Paul would have included in his witness, gleaned from Moses and the Prophets:-



Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

So you have presented no scriptures in the old testament that detail how God can forgive sin

Paul says..............[Rom 3:24-25 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paul is saying God forgave past sins by the blood of Christ and was therefore just in doing so.............this was not said in old testament scriptures.........so this was a mystery........this mystery was not in a prison epistle, was it?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

* Woh! You lost me there, but I can see what you are getting at. You are right that there is a spirit in the world that would destroy the grace of life: it is a matter of the strong praising the strong. See Romans 14:-

Maybe this helps. Often times I could see a similar line of thought regarding woman and man, Husband and wife…as Jew and gentile. Meaning sometimes I see my role in the marriage as the gentile(fellow heir) and my husband as the Jew. not literally but in respect of heirs and fellow heir. Maybe that makes no sense.

Have we spoken before?

 

[Doug]

Hi @Doug,

You were supposed to contrast the verses which use the term, 'the body of Christ' in Corinthians with those in Ephesians, so that you can see how they differ - if at all. That is why I quoted the ones in Ephesians, and gave the references of those in Corinthian., If it is too much to take on at the moment I understand, but your response doesn't tell me why you reached the conclusion you have.

I will leave it here I think.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

[Eph 5:23 KJV] 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

The above verses shows that the church is the body

The gospels nor Acts speak of the church as being the body........only Paul calls the church the body of Christ

I dont know what else to say about this except the use of the term the body ONLY applies to the church formed thru Paul

Only Paul speaks of the mystery of the body of Christ, one new man and he does so before prison epistles