Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
There isn't a single verse which defines, characterizes or otherwise provides any information on such a being.Contending with the devil
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There isn't a single verse which defines, characterizes or otherwise provides any information on such a being.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
What’s almost comical about this article is how it presents Ezekiel 28 as if its main character is their beloved fallen angel, (also referred to as the King of Tyre).
In reality, the only character in the passage is the King of Tyre himself.
Notice how subtly the article is written, if a fallen angel did exist, this is exactly the kind of deception you'd expect. But thankfully, it's not the work of a supernatural deceiver, just the confused writing of a self-deceived Christian who clearly has no real grasp of the text they're trying to interpret.
“At first glance, the prophecy in Ezekiel 28:11-19 seems to refer to a human king. The city of Tyre was the recipient of some of the strongest prophetic condemnations in the Bible (Isaiah 23:1-18); Jeremiah 25:22; 27:1-11; Ezekiel 26:1-28:19; Joel 3:4-8; Amos 1:9, 10). Tyre was known for building its wealth by exploiting its neighbors. Ancient writers referred to Tyre as a city filled with unscrupulous merchants. Tyre was a center of religious idolatry and sexual immorality. The biblical prophets rebuked Tyre for its pride brought on by its great wealth and strategic location. Ezekiel 28:11-19 seems to be a particularly strong indictment against the king of Tyre in the prophet Ezekiel’s day, rebuking the king for his insatiable pride and greed.
However, some of the descriptions in Ezekiel 28:11-19 go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly king claim to be ‘ in Eden’ or to be ‘the anointed cherub who covers’ or to be ‘on the holy mountain of God.’ Therefore, most Bible interpreters believe that Ezekiel 28:11-19 is a dual prophecy, comparing the pride of the king of Tyre to the pride of Satan. Some propose that the king of Tyre was actually possessed by Satan, making the link between the two even more powerful and applicable.
Before his fall, Satan was indeed a beautiful creature (Ezekiel 28:12-13). He was perhaps the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels. The phrase ‘guardian cherub’ possibly indicates that Satan was the angel who ‘guarded’ God’s presence. Pride led to Satans fall. Rather than give God the glory for creating him so beautifully, Satan took pride in himself, thinking that he himself was responsible for his exalted status. Satan’s rebellion resulted in God casting Satan from His presence and will, eventually, result in God condemning Satan to the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10).
Like Satan, the king of Tyre was prideful. Rather than recognize God’s sovereignty, the king of Tyre attributed Tyre’s riches to his own wisdom and strength. Not satisfied with his extravagant position, the king of Tyre sought more and more, resulting in Tyre taking advantage of other nations, expanding its own wealth at the expense of others. But just as Satan’s pride led to his fall and will eventually lead to his eternal destruction, so will the city of Tyre lose its wealth, power, and status. Ezekiel’s prophecy of Tyre‘s total destruction was fulfilled partially by Nebuchadnezzar (Ezekiel 29:17-21) and ultimately by Alexander the Great.”
Just as the Messiah’s disciples are like the Messiah, and his destiny ours, so too are the disciples of Satan like Satan, and his destiny theirs.
However, some of the descriptions in Ezekiel 28:11-19 go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly king claim to be ‘ in Eden’ or to be ‘the anointed cherub who covers’ or to be ‘on the holy mountain of God.’ Therefore, most Bible interpreters believe that Ezekiel 28:11-19 is a dual prophecy, comparing the pride of the king of Tyre to the pride of Satan. Some propose that the king of Tyre was actually possessed by Satan, making the link between the two even more powerful and applicable.
Before his fall, Satan was indeed a beautiful creature (Ezekiel 28:12-13). He was perhaps the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels. The phrase ‘guardian cherub’ possibly indicates that Satan was the angel who ‘guarded’ God’s presence. Pride led to Satans fall. Rather than give God the glory for creating him so beautifully, Satan took pride in himself, thinking that he himself was responsible for his exalted status. Satan’s rebellion resulted in God casting Satan from His presence and will, eventually, result in God condemning Satan to the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10).
Like Satan, the king of Tyre was prideful. Rather than recognize God’s sovereignty, the king of Tyre attributed Tyre’s riches to his own wisdom and strength. Not satisfied with his extravagant position, the king of Tyre sought more and more, resulting in Tyre taking advantage of other nations, expanding its own wealth at the expense of others. But just as Satan’s pride led to his fall and will eventually lead to his eternal destruction, so will the city of Tyre lose its wealth, power, and status. Ezekiel’s prophecy of Tyre‘s total destruction was fulfilled partially by Nebuchadnezzar (Ezekiel 29:17-21) and ultimately by Alexander the Great.”
Is the king of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan? | GotQuestions.org
Is the king of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan? Or, is the prophecy speaking directly to the literal King of Tyre?
www.gotquestions.org
Just as the Messiah’s disciples are like the Messiah, and his destiny ours, so too are the disciples of Satan like Satan, and his destiny theirs.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Does refer - you are doing what all self-deceived Christians do - ignore the context and add your own!
A question for Christian members who aren’t Christadelphians (if there are any) but, like them, don’t believe the devil and the demons are real:
Is it possible for you to express your disagreement with Christians who believe Satan and the demons are real without accusing them as the Christadelphian has done and continues to do?
Is it possible for you to express your disagreement with Christians who believe Satan and the demons are real without accusing them as the Christadelphian has done and continues to do?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
With ample evidence, careful contextual interpretation, and a gentle rebuke for those who bring harm upon themselves.
Yes!
A question for Christian members who do believe Satan and the demons are real:
Is it possible for you to forgive the Christadelphian for the accusations he has made against you?
Is it possible for you to forgive the Christadelphian for the accusations he has made against you?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
What makes you think someone who is teaching the truth has anything to be forgiven for?
Yes , I can forgive him for the accusations .
If he apologizes for calling me crazy and Satan I will again quote him and reply to him , otherwise I will not .
No existence = no threat.
“The devil wants us to believe he is not real. His work in this world is much easier if we think he does not exist. After all, how could we fight an adversary if we don’t even know he exists?”
6 Lies the Devil Wants Us To Believe - Good Catholic
It is said that the devil will use 99% percent of the truth to float one lie. He is a master at this and we need to be on guard against it.
He is crafty.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
“Anyone who’s ever read the Bible knows that satan hates people, vehemently.”
(Jennifer Bagnaschi, “5 Reasons Why Satan Hates You”)
deepbeliever.com
The real Satan does vehemently hate people.
One of the Christadelphians is boasting that he is battling against “the satans” - that’s you, if you believe the devil and the demons are real.
“Satan hates people, vehemently” -> “you who believe the devil and his demons are real” hate people, vehemently.
Don’t believe it for a second, Christians. It isn’t you who hate people vehemently.
(Jennifer Bagnaschi, “5 Reasons Why Satan Hates You”)
Deep Believer5 Reasons Why Satan Hates You
The truth behind why satan hates you should make you want to blush!
deepbeliever.com
The real Satan does vehemently hate people.
One of the Christadelphians is boasting that he is battling against “the satans” - that’s you, if you believe the devil and the demons are real.
“Satan hates people, vehemently” -> “you who believe the devil and his demons are real” hate people, vehemently.
Don’t believe it for a second, Christians. It isn’t you who hate people vehemently.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Job 1:1. Satan attacks Job's character, by reasoning he attacks every chosen of God's character. Also, he attacked my sense's with lies when I talked to him.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Congratulations Rockerduck!
Let me know how that goes...
“Does Job fear God for nothing? Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has?” (Job 1:9–10)
Sounds like someone close to Job does it not?
Why would a powerful fallen angel care about how many livestock Job has?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
If everyone in my family were not Christians, why would Satan bother, except to get me to curse God. But God only cares about His elect. The world has the objects of wealth, whether animals, cars, houses, or unrepentant people. All of those, are Satan's tools to break down most people, but not the elect. That's the point of Job, the blameless servant of God. Like His elect through Jesus Christ. Ezekiel 18:23 - Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Actually, this is taken from Job's wife which is a difficult translation. She meant "continue to serve God and you will die".
It would do you good to relook at Job and approach it with fresh eyes. The adversary was human, no doubt about that and insignificant to the overall story. Appears for two chapters and gone.
”B. OT Context. The short comment is that there is no OT context. When the burial of Moses is described (Deut. 34:1-8), no mention is made of Michael or the devil. Michael the archangel is mentioned only in Dan. 10:13, 21; 12:1. The words quoted at the end of the verse, however, and placed on Michael’s lips as he addresses the devil, are ‘The Lord rebuke you!’ and this expression is indeed found in the OT, in Zech. 3:2. There, however, it is the Lord himself who utters them, rebuking Satan in defense of the high priest Joshua as he stands before ‘The angel of the LORD.’ In the vision in question the high priest Joshua is in the temple courts in the presence of God and represents the Jews. His (and their) accuser is Satan, but if God rebukes Satan, then Joshua (and thus the Jews) is secure before the Lord.”
(Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament, G.K. Beale and D.A. Carson, Editors, p. 1075)
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