If Satan is the devil, is God responsible for all evil?

[XtraPercept]

Oh good, someone else to put on an ignore

Dirty minds cannot see the Truth.

If you cannot extract from these words the innocent intent, it is because you found the meaning you sought. You think me like yourself, but I serve the Master. But the Master is brilliant and bold. He teaches in wonderful ways. For the benefit of the elect but still seeking, I shall expound.

Words explain and define other words which are all dependent on observable, stable, and consistent patterns. It leads people to develop expectations, such as our above example extracting the worst possible interpretation because his soiled garments make good words sound bad.

The size or date of a dictionary is irrelevant if you do not consult it as often as necessary to obtain the understanding you seek. If you have a passion for truth and would explain with capability of defending what light you believe yourself to have, you ought to understand the perspectives and perceptions you interact with.

If you are only here to learn, just follow the voice that feels 'right' to you because it is undeniably true and certain. What's even better is when you investigate the meaning and find the depths of what is presented.

 

[Behold]

If Satan is the Devil – and God is sovereign over Satan – isn’t God ultimately responsible for all the evil Satan causes?

Satan had Free Will and used it according to His Lust.
Adam did the same and sin entered humanity.
If you sin then your chose it, and you are responsible for your Choice.
Free Will and Consequence are "ONE".

God is not responsible for the evil that men do, because God gave all men-woman free will, so that they might choose GOOD, vs choosing Evil.
So, whatever you Choose, you made the Choice and you are responsible for it.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Many Christians equate Satan with the Devil – and insist they are one and the same. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that this identification is correct:
That Satan, the Accuser, is also the Devil – the personification of evil.

Then the question becomes unavoidable:
If Satan is the Devil – and God is sovereign over Satan – isn’t God ultimately responsible for all the evil Satan causes?

You can’t have it both ways. Either:

God permits Satan’s actions and uses him as a tool (as seen in Job 1),
or

God is opposed to Satan but somehow powerless to stop him, which undermines divine sovereignty.


Most orthodox positions choose the first: God is in control, and Satan operates only with divine permission. But that leads to an unsettling conclusion:

> All suffering, deception, war, and religious strife are part of a divine script – a cosmic drama where Satan plays his role under God’s direction.



If that’s the case, then:

Human suffering becomes a prewritten element of God’s plan.

Religious wars, mass delusion, genocide, and even the “end times” become part of a divine performance.

Human dignity, free will, and the meaning of moral choice are reduced to scripted reactions in a play authored by God.


Is this really consistent with the God revealed by Jesus?

A God who:

Weeps with the brokenhearted (John 11:35)

Wishes that none should perish (2 Peter 3:9)

Warns against religious pride (Matthew 23)

Calls us to love even our enemies (Matthew 5:44)


How can such a God deliberately authorize a supernatural evil force to mislead, destroy, and cause misery?

This theological trap stems largely from a medieval synthesis of biblical and extra-biblical tradition. In the Hebrew Bible, haSatan is not the devil – he is God’s prosecutor, not his opponent. The devil, as a figure of ultimate rebellion and chaos, developed later and was merged with Satan.

If we don’t distinguish between Satan (God’s tester) and the Devil (false god, deceiver), we end up with a theology where:

Evil is part of God’s plan.

People are judged for roles they were assigned.

And the Gospel becomes a rescue from God himself – not from sin or injustice.


The dignity of human life suffers under this view.
It becomes a divine chess game, where our pain serves some “higher purpose” we can never challenge – because Satan is doing God’s will.

So I ask:
If Satan is the Devil, and God is his master, how do we avoid making God the author of all evil?

And if we can’t… isn’t it time to revisit the assumptions?

I think for 1 John1:5 to be accurate Isaiah 45:7 would be in error.

ISAIAH 45:7 true. God is Sovereign.
" I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Other translations for evil are calamities, troubles, disaster, woes. These things are all under His control and for a purpose.
1 John 1:5 is true, God is Light and "in Him", there is no darkness. The darkness is created outside of Himself and Heaven and is manifest in our physical and spiritual realm. This is perplexing. Though God is omnipresent, He is not part of the darkness.
The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was placed in the Garden before the Fall of Man. Lucifer sinned and became Satan, likely prior to God's creation of man. Did all knowledge of evil
exist in God's mind prior to His creation? Yes, God knows the beginning from the end, HE KNOWS ALL. Satan's rebellion was the only evil event that happened before creation - SO HOW COULD HE HAVE CREATED IT? It must have been part of the Plan. And this again is difficult for many to understand. But it was the only way we could truly understand and appreciate God, His attributes what good is. We needed to know evil as well. We could not know what forgiveness, joy, mercy, hope, faith, love, healing meant unless we experienced these troubles, calamities, woes, disaster, EVIL.
Think of it, how could all the evils be known before Satan perpetrated them throughout the history of Man?

 

[pandaflower]

ISAIAH 45:7 true. God is Sovereign.
" I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Other translations for evil are calamities, troubles, disaster, woes. These things are all under His control and for a purpose.
1 John 1:5 is true, God is Light and "in Him, there is no darkness. The darkness is created outside of Himself and Heaven and is manifest in our physical and spiritual realm. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was placed in the Garden before the Gall of Man. Lucifer sinned and became Satan, likely prior to God's creation of man. Did all knowledge of evil
exist in God's mind prior to His creation? Yes, God knows the beginning from the end. Satan's rebellion was the only evil event that happened before creation. Think of it, how could all the evils be known before Satan perpetrated them throughout the history of Man?

Please think about this. Could Satan's rebellion surprise God?

How can sin occur in Heaven?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Please think about this. Could Satan's rebellion surprise God?

How can sin occur in Heaven?

The answer to both questions is no.

A so-called "fallen angel" implies that God cannot maintain order in His own house, an idea completely at odds with Scripture. Why would Christ teach us to pray, “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,” if God's will isn’t already perfectly done in heaven?

Logic prevails, Panda. But this also challenges complacent believers to move beyond assumptions and truly engage with prayer and the study of God’s Word.

 

[ProDeo]

Please think about this. Could Satan's rebellion surprise God?

How can sin occur in Heaven?

Allowing the created free will.

The question would be : did God foreknew the fall of Satan before he was created ?

And did God foreknew the fall of A&E before they were created ?

I say yes twice.

And if so, what can we conclude from that.

 

[pandaflower]

The answer to both questions is no.

A so-called "fallen angel" implies that God cannot maintain order in His own house, an idea completely at odds with Scripture. Why would Christ teach us to pray, “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,” if God's will isn’t already perfectly done in heaven?

Logic prevails, Panda. But this also challenges complacent believers to move beyond assumptions and truly engage with prayer and the study of God’s Word.

You make claims about certain things not being in Scripture when they are. Even when scripture is posted to show you that.

 

[Behold]

Allowing the created free will.

The question would be : did God foreknew the fall of Satan before he was created ?

And did God foreknew the fall of A&E before they were created ?

I say yes twice.

And if so, what can we conclude from that.

We can conclude that Satan lost Heaven and ended up down here.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You make claims about certain things not being in Scripture when they are. Even when scripture is posted to show you that.

I think you’ll find that the ideas you’re attaching to the Word aren’t actually supported by it. The false teaching of a fallen angel has been thoroughly addressed and discredited in this forum over the past few weeks.

 

[pandaflower]

I think you’ll find that the ideas you’re attaching to the Word aren’t actually supported by it. The false teaching of a fallen angel has been thoroughly addressed and discredited in this forum over the past few weeks.

In your opinion.

Fallen angel is also addressed as angels cast out of heaven .

Fallen angel therefore identified those angels who fell from heaven because they were cast out from there.


There is scripture support for this

 

[Hiddenthings]

Fallen angel is also addressed as angels cast out of heaven .

Can you identify the symbol of both?

 

[pandaflower]

Can you identify the symbol of both?

Fallen angels are referred to as stars, Revelation 12:4.

bible do fallen angels have "symbol" at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Hiddenthings]

Fallen angels are referred to as stars, Revelation 12:4.

bible do fallen angels have "symbol" at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Fallen angels are referred to as stars, Revelation 12:4.

bible do fallen angels have "symbol" at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Okay lets run with your idea.

You believe a third of all the angels in heaven were cast down to earth?

Do you realise how many that would be?

And you believe every one of them sinned?

@Wick Stick this discussion if it's allowed to continue will demonstrate the folly of this fallen angel doctrine!

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 45
Is God responsible for evil?

Nope. The devil is who sinned and brought in the concept of evil when he first rebelled against God in coveting God's Throne in the 'old world'.

That is why Hebrews 2:14 shows that the power of death has been assigned to the devil.

Isaiah 45:7 is about how God will USE the evil Satan created for this present 2nd world earth age. Doesn't mean God was its original author. That's why in Isaiah 10 God calls "the Assyrian" the "rod of Mine anger".

The children of darkness are the ones who try to claim that God created evil literally.

 

[Davy]

In your opinion.

Fallen angel is also addressed as angels cast out of heaven .

Fallen angel therefore identified those angels who fell from heaven because they were cast out from there.


There is scripture support for this

Yes, but the Revelation 12:7 forward Scripture is not about Satan's original fall and drawing a third of the stars to earth with him. Instead, the previous Revelation 12:3-4 verses are about that. The Revelation 12:7 forward verses have not happened yet.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Then the question becomes unavoidable:
If Satan is the Devil – and God is sovereign over Satan

Does sovereign over mean responsible for the actions? Maybe because Jesus told them their father was not His Father, that their Father was the devil? Why? They sought to kill Him?

Personally I see sovereign as Head over…as in a Leader or King. As in sovereign is a seat of position and not necessarily describing responsibility for every action but who does one answer to as being sovereign. For example
Hebrews 5:7-8 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

isn’t God ultimately responsible for all the evil Satan causes?

“I came not to destroy, but to save” …is what Jesus said of His Father. Paul seconds this in the power given unto him not to destroy , but to edify and strengthen and save. “Not for your destruction but for your edification”

God permits Satan’s actions and uses him as a tool (as seen in Job 1),
or

As “a tool” to deliver out of bondage. As “a tool” sounds like a negative thing. I remember the verse where people accentuate God plays with him as a bird which sounds to me like God gets off on twiddling with or poking and striking mercilessly…as a child would torture and play with an ant hill to watch those ants run and squirm in the dirt. Isaiah 54:14-17 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. [15] Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. [16] Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. [17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

God is opposed to Satan but somehow powerless to stop him, which undermines divine sovereignty.

Who says God is powerless? How is Life powerless over death? Fear not for He who is with in, is stronger then him who is in the world?

Most orthodox positions choose the first: God is in control, and Satan operates only with divine permission. But that leads to an unsettling conclusion:

> All suffering, deception, war, and religious strife are part of a divine script – a cosmic drama where Satan plays his role under God’s direction.

Deliver us from evil?

Is this really consistent with the God revealed by Jesus?

A God who:

Weeps with the brokenhearted (John 11:35)

Wishes that none should perish (2 Peter 3:9)

Warns against religious pride (Matthew 23)

Calls us to love even our enemies (Matthew 5:44)

True

How can such a God deliberately authorize a supernatural evil force to mislead, destroy, and cause misery?

Deliver us from evil?

If we don’t distinguish between Satan (God’s tester) and the Devil (false god, deceiver), we end up with a theology where:

Evil is part of God’s plan.

That the flesh be destroyed, so that the spirit be saved?

And the Gospel becomes a rescue from God himself – not from sin or injustice.

Great point…
Beware of the thief which comes only to steal, kill, and destroy.
I come as a thief…
Be careful and watch…
So that day doesn’t overtake you as a thief in the night
great point you pointed out ‘And the Gospel becomes a rescue from God himself – not from sin or injustice.’

 

[Davy]

Does sovereign over mean responsible for the actions? Maybe because Jesus told them their father was not His Father, that their Father was the devil? Why? They sought to kill Him?

....

Most here are trying to use man's philosophical type thinking to explain the matter, which will not work.

If brethen do not Biblically understand what it was that Lucifer did in that 'old world' when he first rebelled in coveting God's Throne, then they will not understand how evil and death entered in. The main reason this is so is because with God's parable in Ezekiel 28 using the "king of Tyrus" as a TYPE for Lucifer in the old world, it reveals that God originally created Lucifer "perfect in his ways".

Lucifer was created a covering cherub, meaning his job was one of those winged creatures shown on the Ark of the Covenant model that was made to guard God's Throne (Ezekiel 28:14-15). Lucifer instead rebelled, and wanted to be GOD, thus coveting God's Throne for himself. That was the real first original sin that happened, as Apostle John even said that the devil sinned from the beginning (1 John 3:8).

Now the way 'how' Lucifer could sin, is about the idea of God having given the angels also the power of free will choice, and did not make the angels as robots. Thus 1/3 of the angels also sided with Lucifer in that old world and rebelled with him per Rev.12:3-4.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Please think about this. Could Satan's rebellion surprise God?

How can sin occur in Heaven?

I have ... for years. Listen, if God is omniscient, knowing the beginning from the end, and He is sovereign, then everything is part of His overall Plan. He factors in evil for a purpose. Jesus died for our sins. Did you ever think about what that means? All sins past, present and future - He knows them before they happen. Your mind is having a hard time with that concept, but how else could prophecy be fulfilled thousands of years before it happens exactly. There are no surprises with God, He is not caught off guard about anything.
How could sin happen in Heaven? How could a continuous war be going in on the heavenly spiritual realm?
Angels were created with free will to choose between good and evil as humans were as well. This was the only way and necessary for a genuine loving relationship with God. Forced obedience is not love. You cannot force someone to love you, it must come willingly with a choice.

 

[pandaflower]

I have ... for years. Listen, if God is omniscient, knowing the beginning from the end, and He is sovereign, then everything is part of His overall Plan. He factors in evil for a purpose. Jesus died for our sins. Did you ever think about what that means? All sins past, present and future - He knows them before they happen. Your mind is having a hard time with that concept, but how else could prophecy be fulfilled thousands of years before it happens exactly. There are no surprises with God, He is not caught off guard about anything.
How could sin happen in Heaven? How could a continuous war be going in on the heavenly spiritual realm?
Angels were created with free will to choose between good and evil as humans were as well. This was the only way and necessary for a genuine loving relationship with God. Forced obedience is not love. You cannot force someone to love you, it must come willingly with a choice.

Adam and Eve loved God before they ate of the tree. They were spiritually linked to God. Lived in love and peace.

 

[pandaflower]

Yes, but the Revelation 12:7 forward Scripture is not about Satan's original fall and drawing a third of the stars to earth with him. Instead, the previous Revelation 12:3-4 verses are about that. The Revelation 12:7 forward verses have not happened yet.

It's ongoing