I dont know what you talking about, so did you understand my post ?
"True" Israel?
- Thread starter Randy Kluth
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Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I notice you omitted the part where I quoted verses proving what I said.
Didn't want to argue with Paul?Never read it. I assume this is an attempt to somehow smear me by comparison to something undesirable?
I don't care much about eschatology. Call me a pan-millenial - everything will pan out in the end, however God does it.
Actually, I agree with every word of that.
You literally chose not to quote the portion of my post where I cited verses.
Perhaps you're confusing Israel with Judah? Judah was never destroyed.
But Israel was destroyed by Assyria in 722BC, and stopped existing as a nation, or even a separate people. About 150 years later, Ezekiel prophesied about the resurrection of Israel - a nation which no longer existed - in chapter 37 of his book. It came to pass about 60 years after his prophecy.
Hosea 1:
6 I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away....
9 ...for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Did you get that? Israel didn't endure; they got RESURRECTED. And it's happened more than once
"Born of faith" and "adopted" are the same thing. A nation born of faith is already adopted.
John the Baptist seems to put slightly less importance on it than you do.
Matthew 3:
9 Think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to [our] father.' I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire: 12 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Sometimes a response I get is so dogmatic that it does not warrant discussion. I'm glad you wish to discuss, whether we agree or not!I notice you omitted the part where I quoted verses proving what I said.
No, I know it sounds like it. Luther's famous word "Against the Jews" is often viewed as a classic example of Antisemitism. But I was raised a Lutheran, and view his beliefs as typical of the Early Church Fathers, who ultimately became Amillennialists and opposed any sense of Jewish restoration. No, I don't wish to smear you--just inform you that your position has lots of history that today has become controversial in light of current Jewish struggles.
Yes, I heard Pan eschatology referred to back in the 70s. It's a great escape route.
Again, you were speaking so dogmatically that at the time it didn't seem to warrant much detail. What's the use if it's just going to cause friction--heat and no light?
No, I was specifically referring to the fate of Judah and Israel. Israel, as a kingdom, disappeared forever. However, from the start many Israelis from the north migrated down to Judah in the South. As such, all 12 tribes have survived within the Kingdom of Judah, both before and afer the Babylonian Captivity.
In the verses you quoted I didn't see any "resurrection?"
No, Paul specifically identified the Jewish People as the "natural branches" as compared to the nations who were "unnatural."
Rom 11.17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Yes, well, it's also the crux of my argument. If you don't want to go there, there isn't much point of continuing.
I'm the one avoiding conversation? lol Eschatology is THE most contentious topic in Christianity. If we're avoiding friction, that one's definitely off the table.
Except, no it didn't. Look at the NT. Everyone is under Rome's thumb there, but Judaea is a separate province, with it's own ethnarchs and rulers. Can you see the contentious relationship between Judah and Galilee? Does a prophet come from Galilee? Who are these "other sheep" and "another fold" Jesus speaks about? Why are the disciples directed to go only to the "house of Israel?"
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Debatable. Ezekiel 6 prophesies the death and destruction of Israel. It says that their "remnant" will be scattered among the Gentiles; not Judah.
It was in the passage I referenced but did not quote - Ezekiel 37.
At the end of that quote, those natural branches still need to be grafted in (bolded).
NotTheRock
Well-Known Member
If Israel is no longer relevant to God, why then did he bring that ancient nation back into existence? I believe that you need to reconsider your theology.
How can one bring back Israel ?
The true Jews in the State, that was named Israel ? They the cream devout knowledge of the Jews Do not say that it is Israel in fact ! but hope that it will become Israel in fact !
So who calles the State Israel is a Fool ! because the True Jews do not call it Israel yet in fact ! for they Hope to become Israel once again in fact ! as they are pissed off with the Godlessness of the State is so ? because it's not worthy of even the OT in fact, but a whore show in their eyes !
Any worthy Christian knows that the Jews who were worthy of Moses had faith in Jesus ( Salvation ) and when Jesus went to Heaven, that was when the worthy Jews were born again in fact and they were the first Christians in fact !
The Jews who were led astray were Lost and the worthy Jews were Saved !
The Jewish OT was our Christians blueprint ! and like an egg it hatched ! when Christ Jesus was seen as ones Lord and Saviour in fact ! outside of that fact no one is worthy of Christ Jesus in fact ! for they in fact are totaly Lost !
No one is Found ! until one is Saved ! such a one is abiding in Christ Jesus in fact !
The wayward Jews and the rest will one day wake up to the fact ! that they are barking up the wrong tree.
The Key to understanding what Israel is, is in Jacob becoming Israel you stupid idiots ! because that is a Key point one muct understand ! not to mention the fact also that Why did Jesus him self call Nathaniel Israel ! a true worthy Islailite in fact ! get that as a Key point that all Christians should have a handle on, or you are Stupid and not worthy ! not to mention what Jesus said that Nathaniel would see ? If you do not understand that point you are not worthy.
Why is it now for the last 20 so years that Preist never touch on the subject of Jacob and Nathaniel ! as if it's Tabboo ! they run and hide from such like a mongrel dog ! because if the people truly understood such, They may see the Light !
The God less lukewarm Churches we have now put such a Lamp in the cubaord ! for they are only Religious dupes and not Saved ! that's why they are not on Fire for Christ Jesus in fact !
Fact is that is on fire for Christ Jesus is Israel in fact !
No one who is luke warm is worthy in fact ! for they do not know him truly in depth in fact.
Thats not the ancient nation over there in the current middle east, that nation isnt under the Covenant with God, its just another heathen nation of the world in general, which maybe some of Gods elect may be over there as they may be in any other nation.
NotTheRock
Well-Known Member
There's a darn good reason that God returned Israel to existence. Satan pulled off the Holocaust and thereafter God recreated Israel. Israel remains central to God's plan and the Jewish people remain his "chosen people".
Behold
Well-Known Member
A Christian can't stop being born again.
Your behavior and your current faith level, has nothing to do with being born again.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You mean go on a NetFlix Binge? (Backslide).
Here is the thing, ......backsliding, happens with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit, in you.
This means that you backslide still being the "temple of the Holy Spirit".
A person who does not understand that Salvaiton is eternal,.........believes that you can backslide into hell.
These are the same people who have never read the entire NT, and live inside commentaries... and want to run to JAMES and tell you that "dead faith" means you have lost your Salvation.
This isnt' possible as you backslide as a CHRISTIAN, or it would not be backsliding.
Hello = DUH.
What is the remedy for backsliding?
A.) God's Grace that leads you to repentence, and if that wont do it then Hebrews 12:6 will solve it for you.
One of the greatest Backsliders recorded in the Bible is : DEMAS........
He was a young man, who just wanted more of the world, and so He "backslid", and the thing you find out about this... is that if The Holy Spirit is in you, then you wont enjoy it.......it wont be the same as it use to be......it'll disappoint you.
You deceived my friend, may God show you the truth. And Yes Israel shall be saved, just not national israel
Satanist created the Holocaust in fact ! for their god's ! 6 million Jews were sacrficed for The Plan ! and 60 million goyim idiots took the bate !
Nothing to do with Christ Jesus at all in fact ! but the outright workings of Satanist in fact, the whole deal was Satanic in fact ! you all have been played in fact !
Why would God bring back a Godless Anti-Christ People into the Land's again ? Must be another of the gods that Satan peddles in fact !
The unworthy Jews were Vomited out of the Land in fact !
Now why would God want to bering back a Anti-Christ people to the Land, that he Vomited such dupes out for very good reason ?
The reason why their is a State in the Lands is because of Worldly Governments created it in fact, Not God at all !
Not to mention the Land means nothing, it's not about the Land, because When Jesus came, it was about You ! not the Land !
You must be Born again ! That's the whole point ! not the Land ! The Land does not fix you up, does it ?
The Land is about Governments wanting to bring Democracy to the area !
But Nowaday Democracy has been Stolen by Socialist who have stolen the word democracy in fact ! for their Socialist ends in fact and most people are in fact just to stupid to understand that Democracy was never a Socialist Communist foundational platform in fact ! but has been used as such for an ends ! it's not their key foundation possition but used as a means to get domanance over the People in fact !
So the ones who promote Socialist democracy nowadays are in fact been clearly bagging the whole History of Democracy of the past generations in fact ! for now it's demanding They are a New Age Socialist claiming to be a Democracy ! That's an outright working of deception in fact ! creating Delusions in fact !
They claim that Democracy is evolving ? No it's been Stolen ! Socialism is the Key possition and Socialist type of claim of democracy is an ends to their Socialist Idolitry in fact. They come from a possition, That they will give you everything ? Like the Devil played that tune to Jesus as well in fact ?
So when the so called Democratic Socialist ends come to have total power ? Bingo you all are Communist Slaves in fact ! The Government is your god ! because they own you fools !
But what did Holy Moses say ? Let my people go ! why did Moses say that ? well it's because a People of God are not Slaves to Man in fact, but worthy of God in fact !
That's why where Grace abounds, no Law is above Grace ! So one is not under the Law, like a fool Slave ! for one is free ! due to Grace abounds.
You Must be born again !
The Socialist demand you must be a Slave to mans works madness ! it looks good to idolise such because it's the number 6 ! but sadly it's one short, for it rejects Christ Jesus in fact ! and is not of Grace that's for sure. for it's a Septic tank of dupes who have the Mark ? for They are an abomination to God in fact !
Well people keep coming for the land and die in droves its been going on for 6000 years - so if you want them gone be ready to die like all the others that have tried - good luck but you will loose your life trying.The six day war is a battle right out of the bible 6 nation attacking at once except Israel attacked first defeating them all and taking massive amounts of land.A lesson should be learned there.Israelite have always been hated right from the beginning its no different today.No one will remove who God has put there or they will die trying.You cannot possess that land unless God allows it or death awaits you.God did push them from the land for almost 2000 year but has restored them for the end time no one will up root them again.The standing count of death of those who have tried is massive.
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I don't have Netflix anymore--someone had gifted it to me. A lot of it is trash. But I wouldn't say that watching movies is evil. That's judgmental in my opinion, and I'm not going to go down the list of things you think is evil for a Christian to do, whether dancing, smoking, drinking, card games, attending sports games, casinos, gambling, travel, entertainment, or mixing with non-Christians, etc. I'll leave that for another thread.
I believe Spirit-Baptized Christians can backslide, and actually engage in awful sin. It doesn't mean they will be separated from Christ forever, but they will certainly be ashamed that they capitulated to temptation.
On the other hand, there are non-Spirit-Baptized Christians--not Born Again, who can return to their vomit and be damned forever. They never were Reborn.
They may have had an experience with the Holy Spirit, and may have done some good through the Spirit of Christ. But God requires Rebirth, which is a commitment from the heart to the Lord as Lord.
Some simply cannot do this and only do it in part, which is partly akin to not doing it at all. They will in fact be lost unless they fully commit to the Lord.
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Of course there is, He’s going to rule from it when He comes back. it Has nothing do with ethnicity as beleivers. He proved that when he sent Jonah to the ethic neo-Assyrians, the same ethnic group the antichrist is to come from, and Peter to Cornelius and Paul to the Greeks and Beyond. One Olive tree, period.
Behold
Well-Known Member
I didnt say that watching movies is evil.
Read more carefully.
Nothing can seperate a Christian from God and Christ, as the Christian is "in Christ" and "one with God".
If you are not born again, then you are not a Christian.
The Proof of becoming a Christian, isn't posting Theology on a forum, or going to church for 43 years.
THe Proof of becoming a Christian, is that they are BORN Again.
God does not save us because we "commit to the Lord" as that would be God accepting a SINNER based on an agreement.
God's Salvation is not "one part Jesus and 1 part what i have to do".
Salvation is a GIFT......and you can't earn a gift and you dont work for a gift.
God only accepts a sinner based on the Sacrifice that Jesus has provided on The Cross that make the sinner acceptable to God.
What I said is I don't wish to discuss in this thread what you may think is evil--I'm not saying what you think are actually evil, except perhaps Newsmax, which obviously include an assortment of movies. Again, I don't wish to discuss this here.
I already gave my view of this.
This goes to definitions. Words mean what they mean for the user. As I use the word "Christian" the label can apply to Nominal Christians as well as Born Again Christians.
I already commented on this.
God accepts a Sinner who chooses to repent.
Salvation is a combination of God's Word reaching out to us, and our choice to repent on that basis.
The Gift of Christ is efficacious only when it is received. Choosing that Gift is not a "work of Salvation," but rather, a requirement that we receive it and live by it.
You seem to be confusing two different kinds of "work." The legal work of Salvation was accomplished by Christ. The "work" of receiving it, confessing it, and choosing to live by it is repentance enabled by the work of Christ.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Again.....i didnt say that watching movies is "evil".....those are your words not mine.
I said....in the context of "backsliding".... = that a Christian who is NetFlix BINGING.....is backslidden.
If you are born again you are a Christian.
If you are not, then you are not.
God accepts a sinner who Gives God their Faith in Christ., as our '"faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness"..
True repentance is not being sorry for sin......True repentance is being sorry for what you are.......and in that we find the conviction of the Holy Spirit, that has enlightened the heart in a sinner by showing them their sinfulness and their need for forgiveness through Christ.
From this ....they make the choice to place their faith in Christ or to not.
Salvation is received by Faith.
There is no "living by it" requirement that God places on The GIFT of Salvation.
So, you are back to your "contract for Salvation" false gospel.
That's legalism, and nothing less.
No sinner comes to God by choosing to live by, or live according to your False Gospel "contract".
A sinner is saved by """Grace through Faith"", "why we were yet sinners". @Randy Kluth
What's the matter with you? I said I didn't want to discuss what you think is evil. I have no idea whether you think movies are evil. I just know that you said Netflix was bad for Christians, or at least insinuated that.
I'm not going to get dragged into one of your typical arguments. There seems to be no redeeming value to them.
