Is it possible to lose salvation?

[LoveYeshua]

When you teach "Keeping the Law" (obedience to the Law)........ to have eternal life..... then you are denying The Cross of Christ as the ONLY REASON you will gain eternal life.
You are denying that JESUS Is Eternal life, and that """Christ IN YOU"""< is How you Know you have it., as John teaches us that "you can know you have eternal life", as this "LIFE in IN God's SON">..........and not found in Lawkeeping or commandment keeping.

No one receives "eternal life" by keeping the law.........as this is JUDAISM..nonsense, you are teaching.

This IS the teaching of JESUS! I cant believe you Deny this!

Matthew 19:16-19 (NKJV)​

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

---

Mark 10:17-19 (NKJV)​

Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”

---

Luke 18:18-20 (NKJV)​

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”

In all three Gospels, Jesus clearly ties eternal life to obedience to the commandments. This shows that keeping God’s commandments is part of salvation—not as a replacement for grace, but as the response of love and faithfulness that Jesus requires.

even Paul says so;

• 1 Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.”
• Ephesians 6:1-2: “Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother,’ which is the first commandment with promise.”
  (This is a direct quote of the fifth commandment.)
• Romans 2:13: “For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.”
• Romans 7:12: “Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”
• Romans 3:31: “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”

You are really obstinate..

 

[Rich R]

Let’s look carefully at what you raised. Yes, Ephesians speaks about being “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” and “sealed unto the day of redemption.” But the question is: does being sealed mean salvation is unconditionally guaranteed, regardless of what a believer does afterward? Or is the seal conditional upon continuing in faith and obedience?

First, we must start with Jesus, because He said His words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48). Jesus never said that once a person believes, they can never fall away. Instead, He gave repeated warnings:

“He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). That is not just for Jews—it is a principle for everyone because He says the same in Revelation to the churches (which are believers): “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). If being sealed made it impossible to fall away, why would Jesus warn believers to stay faithful?

He also taught in John 15:6 that if anyone who is in Him (a believer) does not remain, he is cast out like a branch and burned. That shows that being connected to Christ at one point is not enough—we must remain in Him.

Now, about the argument that “everything Jesus said was only for Israel.” That cannot be true, because Jesus said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). His words will judge every person, not only Jews. He commanded His apostles to teach “all things that I have commanded you” to the nations (Matthew 28:19–20). That means His teachings are for all Christians.

As for being sealed, Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is a seal and a guarantee (2 Corinthians 1:22), but that does not mean unconditional security. In fact, the same passage you quoted in Ephesians 4:30 says, “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God.” Why warn believers not to grieve the Spirit if it is impossible to lose Him? Hebrews 3:14 explains this clearly: “We have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.”

Finally, in Revelation 3:5, Jesus says, “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life.” This means names can be blotted out if one does not overcome. That is Jesus speaking—not limited to Israel, but to the churches.

The word for "churches" is "ekklesia" and it means, "assembly". In Greek culture, it's used to describe any group of people gathered together for a common cause. Acts 19 uses the that word to describe what amounted to a mob.

It's hard to read Revelation and not see hundreds of references to Israel. Jesus did come for the Jews. Had they believed in Him, the promised kingdom would have been established and that would be that. However, they didn't accept him, so God's plan for Israel was put on hold. It will be picked up again in Revelation. Revelation, like the OT, including the gospels is God's dealing with Israel. The church of the body of Christ is another animal altogether.

The time between John and Revelation is this present age of grace, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Until this age there was Jews and Gentiles. God chose Israel as His vehicle to bring the Lord Jesus Christ into this world. The Gentiles were,

" ...without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" (Eph 2:12)​

​

Rom 9:4,

Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;​

​

God made no covenant with Gentiles. Nor did He gave them the law. This is why Jesus said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Any verse quoted from the Gospels, though valuable for learning, were not written to the Gentiles nor to the Church of the Body of Christ. That message was given to Paul.

So yes, the Spirit seals us for redemption—but only as long as we remain in Christ. The seal is a promise, not a license to stop abiding in Him. Jesus Himself made it clear: “Abide in Me” (John 15:4). That is an ongoing condition, not a one-time event.

Blessings

Reading it for how it's written, I think a seal is a seal. It says we are sealed until the day of redemption. Again, Paul said something a bit different than Jesus. Jesus spoke to Jews. Paul spoke to Christians. It doesn't mean one is better than the other. It just means that Jesus spoke before his resurrection and Paul spoke after the resurrection. It'd be hard to imagine things didn't change after the resurrection, hence the difference in the message.

Which is more "noble" (for want of a better word), obedience out of obligation or obedience out of genuine love?

In general, I believe the best the devil can do now, is to keep people from understanding the depth of the accomplishment of Jesus' death and, most pertinent, his resurrection. I hate to think it, but I'm afraid he's been fairly successful in his effort. As a result, many Christians live in fear of loosing that which God, through Christ Jesus, did for them. Too many see obligation as the only way to continue in the faith. That is not what God wants. He wants us to continue, to obey because of love, not fear, not obligation. Perfect love casts out fear, including the fear of loosing one's salvation. I absolutely refuse to believe that any Christian who seriously thinks they can loose their salvation does not walk in fear to some degree or another. Nobody knows what they'll do tomorrow, next year, or next decade. If I thought I could lose my salvation because of something I might do 10 years from now, I'd be terrified. I think that would be a big slap in the face to God

 

[Pet]

First of all, Jesus was not talking to Christians. There was no such thing before the day of Pentecost. Things took a radical change of direction on that day.

Secondly, the Greek word for "perfect" is "complete" and it'd be worth your while seeing how that word is used elsewhere. We ought to let the Bible define the words it uses. If we use our own definition of words, it's certain to lead to error.

But assuming you are right and "perfection" is the standard, do you mind me asking if you consider yourself perfect?

Jesus used the word perfect-'telios'.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Jesus had 12 Apostles (incl Paul, excluding Judas).

This is not a topic I care to get into.
Jesus said to be baptized....
I go by that.

Matthias Chosen (Acts 1:15-23, NKJV)​

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the [c]disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”


18 (Now this man purchased a field with the [d]wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his [e]entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)


20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:

‘Let his dwelling place be [f]desolate,
And let no one live in it’;
and,

‘Let another take his [g]office.’

21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”


23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[Pet]

That's a good answer. You're right, it wouldn't be wise to answer it. You know within yourself and that's what matters.

James uses the same Greek word, "telios" as Matthew 5:48. The people of that time and place would not understand it to mean the same thing as we in the modern West understand it to mean. I think it better to understand it as "mature." But i wouldn't expect you to just take my word for it. Look it up on any number of Bible websites. In any case, no matter how "mature" we become, we still fall far short of perfection in the flesh. Now spiritually, we are perfect.

Heb 10:14,

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​

​

We are God's workmanship, and He knows to build something right.

Eph 2:10(a),

For we are his workmanship...​

I might also point out that, aside from Jesus, we all at some time or another offend others by our words. If that's true, then according to Matthew 5:48, when taken out of context, would sure seem to say none of us will make it.

Oh context :/

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthias Chosen (Acts 1:15-23, NKJV)​

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the [c]disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”


18 (Now this man purchased a field with the [d]wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his [e]entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)


20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:

‘Let his dwelling place be [f]desolate,
And let no one live in it’;
and,

‘Let another take his [g]office.’

21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”


23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

I see what you mean.
Yes,,,there were 12 including Matthias and excluding Judas.
Replacement.
I guess Paul is the honorable Apostle...if we count him in it would make 13.
Thanks!

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh context :/

Think of this Pet....
Did Jesus understand human nature?
Then He could not have meant PERFECT as meaning without defect.

Also, Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins in John 20:23 so it would make no sense anyway.

 

[Pet]

For centuries, people have used 1 john, as an excuse to sin. "if we sin..." john said IF, not when!
John also said "he who sins is of the devil", shall we talk about that verse?

 

[Pet]

Think of this Pet....
Did Jesus understand human nature?
Then He could not have meant PERFECT as meaning without defect.

Also, Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins in John 20:23 so it would make no sense anyway.

Are you saying that Jesus was wrong?

 

[GodsGrace]

The word for "churches" is "ekklesia" and it means, "assembly". In Greek culture, it's used to describe any group of people gathered together for a common cause. Acts 19 uses the that word to describe what amounted to a mob.

It's hard to read Revelation and not see hundreds of references to Israel. Jesus did come for the Jews. Had they believed in Him, the promised kingdom would have been established and that would be that. However, they didn't accept him, so God's plan for Israel was put on hold. It will be picked up again in Revelation. Revelation, like the OT, including the gospels is God's dealing with Israel. The church of the body of Christ is another animal altogether.

The time between John and Revelation is this present age of grace, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Until this age there was Jews and Gentiles. God chose Israel as His vehicle to bring the Lord Jesus Christ into this world. The Gentiles were,

" ...without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" (Eph 2:12)​

​

Rom 9:4,

Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;​

​

God made no covenant with Gentiles.

It's almost midnight here and I'm signing off.
I've also read your post to me which will have to wait till the morning.

You say the New Covenant is NOT for Gentiles....God made no covenant with the Gentiles.
The New Covenant is not for Gentiles?
Please confirm.

Nor did He gave them the law. This is why Jesus said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

You do love to forget about Jesus' other sheep.

I even posed the verse where JESUS SAID this.

WHY do you pick and choose the verses you like and dislike?

John 10:14-16
14“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
15even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Maybe some verses are difficult to read?

WHO are the other sheep Jesus must attend to?

Hint. It has something to do with the New Covenant.

Any verse quoted from the Gospels, though valuable for learning, were not written to the Gentiles nor to the Church of the Body of Christ. That message was given to Paul.

Reading it for how it's written, I think a seal is a seal. It says we are sealed until the day of redemption. Again, Paul said something a bit different than Jesus. Jesus spoke to Jews. Paul spoke to Christians. It doesn't mean one is better than the other. It just means that Jesus spoke before his resurrection and Paul spoke after the resurrection. It'd be hard to imagine things didn't change after the resurrection, hence the difference in the message.

Which is more "noble" (for want of a better word), obedience out of obligation or obedience out of genuine love?

In general, I believe the best the devil can do now, is to keep people from understanding the depth of the accomplishment of Jesus' death and, most pertinent, his resurrection. I hate to think it, but I'm afraid he's been fairly successful in his effort. As a result, many Christians live in fear of loosing that which God, through Christ Jesus, did for them. Too many see obligation as the only way to continue in the faith. That is not what God wants. He wants us to continue, to obey because of love, not fear, not obligation. Perfect love casts out fear, including the fear of loosing one's salvation. I absolutely refuse to believe that any Christian who seriously thinks they can loose their salvation does not walk in fear to some degree or another. Nobody knows what they'll do tomorrow, next year, or next decade. If I thought I could lose my salvation because of something I might do 10 years from now, I'd be terrified. I think that would be a big slap in the face to God

 

[Rich R]

Jesus used the word perfect-'telios'.

That's right. The problem with the word "perfect" is that we tend to see it as meaning something without flaw. But that is not at all how the word telios was used in the first century.

G5046 τέλειος teleios (te'-lei-os) adj.

complete.​

​

It had the connotation of being mature, being brought to the full end, something finished.

I really wouldn't just take my word for it though. Look up how it's used in the scriptures. Let scripture define the words it uses. Sometimes our own ideas of word meanings are not at all how the scripture uses them.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you saying that Jesus was wrong?

Are YOU saying that Jesus meant that we are to be PERFECT...
as in not have any defect?

Do YOU know anyone who is perfect?

 

[GodsGrace]

For centuries, people have used 1 john, as an excuse to sin. "if we sin..." john said IF, not when!
John also said "he who sins is of the devil", shall we talk about that verse?

Oh. You're one of those lucky persons that never sins.

Aintcha glad?

Good night.

 

[Pet]

Oh. You're one of those lucky persons that never sins.

Aintcha glad?

Good night.

I don't like the word lucky, I prefer blessed.
Now may The God of peace sanctify you entirely...

 

[LoveYeshua]

The word for "churches" is "ekklesia" and it means, "assembly". In Greek culture, it's used to describe any group of people gathered together for a common cause. Acts 19 uses the that word to describe what amounted to a mob.

It's hard to read Revelation and not see hundreds of references to Israel. Jesus did come for the Jews. Had they believed in Him, the promised kingdom would have been established and that would be that. However, they didn't accept him, so God's plan for Israel was put on hold. It will be picked up again in Revelation. Revelation, like the OT, including the gospels is God's dealing with Israel. The church of the body of Christ is another animal altogether.

The time between John and Revelation is this present age of grace, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Until this age there was Jews and Gentiles. God chose Israel as His vehicle to bring the Lord Jesus Christ into this world. The Gentiles were,

" ...without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" (Eph 2:12)​

​

Rom 9:4,

Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;​

​

God made no covenant with Gentiles. Nor did He gave them the law. This is why Jesus said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Any verse quoted from the Gospels, though valuable for learning, were not written to the Gentiles nor to the Church of the Body of Christ. That message was given to Paul.

Reading it for how it's written, I think a seal is a seal. It says we are sealed until the day of redemption. Again, Paul said something a bit different than Jesus. Jesus spoke to Jews. Paul spoke to Christians. It doesn't mean one is better than the other. It just means that Jesus spoke before his resurrection and Paul spoke after the resurrection. It'd be hard to imagine things didn't change after the resurrection, hence the difference in the message.

Which is more "noble" (for want of a better word), obedience out of obligation or obedience out of genuine love?

In general, I believe the best the devil can do now, is to keep people from understanding the depth of the accomplishment of Jesus' death and, most pertinent, his resurrection. I hate to think it, but I'm afraid he's been fairly successful in his effort. As a result, many Christians live in fear of loosing that which God, through Christ Jesus, did for them. Too many see obligation as the only way to continue in the faith. That is not what God wants. He wants us to continue, to obey because of love, not fear, not obligation. Perfect love casts out fear, including the fear of loosing one's salvation. I absolutely refuse to believe that any Christian who seriously thinks they can loose their salvation does not walk in fear to some degree or another. Nobody knows what they'll do tomorrow, next year, or next decade. If I thought I could lose my salvation because of something I might do 10 years from now, I'd be terrified. I think that would be a big slap in the face to God

I understand your perspective, but saying that Jesus’ teachings were only for Israel and that the gospels don’t apply to the Church is a serious misunderstanding. Yes, God chose Israel as His starting point to bring the Messiah, but Jesus made it clear that His words were not temporary or limited to Jews. He said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). His words will judge every person—not just Israel.

Before ascending, Jesus commanded His apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20). That means the very commands He gave in the gospels were to be taught to Gentiles too. Jesus never said His teaching would expire after the resurrection; He said His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

In Revelation, Jesus speaks to churches—Gentile believers—not the nation of Israel. He calls them to faithfulness, warns them about judgment, and promises eternal life to those who overcome (Revelation 2:10; 3:5). These are the same principles He taught during His ministry. If the gospels were only for Jews, why does Jesus speak to Gentile churches in Revelation using the same language of obedience and perseverance?

Yes, Paul said we are sealed, but even he warned believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and spoke of those who could be “cut off” if they do not continue in faith (Romans 11:22). The seal is God’s promise, but it does not cancel Jesus’ call to abide in Him. Jesus said, “Abide in Me… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:4–6). That’s not fear—that’s reality. Perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18), but love does not remove responsibility. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

The gospel was always meant for all nations, and the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of Christian life. The Church is not built on Paul’s message but on Christ and His words. Paul himself said, “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11).

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't like the word lucky, I prefer blessed.
Now may The God of peace sanctify you entirely...

I don't think anyone is blessed enough to be perfect.
Anyone who thinks he never sins doesn't know what sin is.

As to being sanctified ENTIRELY....
it's a process....
Entire sanctification is what might be called glorification.
That happens when I die.

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand your perspective, but saying that Jesus’ teachings were only for Israel and that the gospels don’t apply to the Church is a serious misunderstanding. Yes, God chose Israel as His starting point to bring the Messiah, but Jesus made it clear that His words were not temporary or limited to Jews. He said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). His words will judge every person—not just Israel.

Before ascending, Jesus commanded His apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20). That means the very commands He gave in the gospels were to be taught to Gentiles too. Jesus never said His teaching would expire after the resurrection; He said His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

In Revelation, Jesus speaks to churches—Gentile believers—not the nation of Israel. He calls them to faithfulness, warns them about judgment, and promises eternal life to those who overcome (Revelation 2:10; 3:5). These are the same principles He taught during His ministry. If the gospels were only for Jews, why does Jesus speak to Gentile churches in Revelation using the same language of obedience and perseverance?

Yes, Paul said we are sealed, but even he warned believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and spoke of those who could be “cut off” if they do not continue in faith (Romans 11:22). The seal is God’s promise, but it does not cancel Jesus’ call to abide in Him. Jesus said, “Abide in Me… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:4–6). That’s not fear—that’s reality. Perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18), but love does not remove responsibility. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

The gospel was always meant for all nations, and the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of Christian life. The Church is not built on Paul’s message but on Christ and His words. Paul himself said, “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11).

Great post!
Good night LoveYeshua.

 

[Rich R]

It's almost midnight here and I'm signing off.
I've also read your post to me which will have to wait till the morning.

You say the New Covenant is NOT for Gentiles....God made no covenant with the Gentiles.
The New Covenant is not for Gentiles?
Please confirm.

Jer 31:31,

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

​

I'm very aware of the tradition, but verse says nothing about a new covenant with Gentiles. The question becomes; truth or tradition? I just decided to throw my hat in the truth ring.

You do love to forget about Jesus' other sheep.

That's not at all my sentiment. I love Christians. Nonetheless, Jesus said the sheep he was talking about were not members of the flock to whom he was speaking. i,e, Israel. It was about the future, specifically Pentecost.

I even posed the verse where JESUS SAID this.

WHY do you pick and choose the verses you like and dislike?

I think you're reading too much into my words.

John 10:14-16
14“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
15even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Maybe some verses are difficult to read?

WHO are the other sheep Jesus must attend to?

John 10:16,

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the time Jesus spoke these words): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall (future) be one fold, [and] one shepherd.​

Totally fits with:

Col 3:11,

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

Hint. It has something to do with the New Covenant.

With whom will God make a New Covenant? Let scripture give the answer:

Jer 31:31,

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

​

I can't help it if tradition has muddied the waters,. Nonetheless, these words in Jeremiah have been there for some 2,500 years now.

I can only say, that the message for the Church of the body of Christ was not revealed, to Moses, to David, not even to Jesus. It was a mystery that was kept secret until God revealed it to Paul (Rom 16:25-26, et.al). That is Paul's gospel and it is meant specifically for Christians. Our deal is much better than the Old Testament and even better than the New Covenant which will come to fruition when Jesus returns for the second time, when the New Jerusalem descends from heaven (Rev 20-21).

Good discussion. Great example of iron sharpening iron. Thanks!

 

[amigo de christo]

Are YOU saying that Jesus meant that we are to be PERFECT...
as in not have any defect?

Do YOU know anyone who is perfect?

Yes i do know HE who is perfect .
The problem is due to interfaith big ol cuymbia lovey do road
THAT NAME is being no longer preached . His name . JESUS THE GLORIOUS CHRIST .
Please understand why i am at war with that which is of anti christ , its false love , its interfaith .
Cause JESUS WONT BE DENIED and all who do so WILL SURELY BE DENIED . that serious my friend .
That serious . Time for the peoples to rise up and proclaim with urgency and with boldness
The glorious NAME OF CHRIST JESUS with a serious dire reminder of HAVING TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
Cause all else be vain . And do beware for another jesus cant save .
Defintion of another jesus , Any jesus that contradicts the words of CHRIST JESUS
and twists the doctrines . Too many are now in the thralls of doing exactly what peter warned about .
THEY TWISTING SCRIPS UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION .

 

[Rich R]

I understand your perspective, but saying that Jesus’ teachings were only for Israel and that the gospels don’t apply to the Church is a serious misunderstanding. Yes, God chose Israel as His starting point to bring the Messiah, but Jesus made it clear that His words were not temporary or limited to Jews. He said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). His words will judge every person—not just Israel.

Before ascending, Jesus commanded His apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20). That means the very commands He gave in the gospels were to be taught to Gentiles too. Jesus never said His teaching would expire after the resurrection; He said His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

In Revelation, Jesus speaks to churches—Gentile believers—not the nation of Israel. He calls them to faithfulness, warns them about judgment, and promises eternal life to those who overcome (Revelation 2:10; 3:5). These are the same principles He taught during His ministry. If the gospels were only for Jews, why does Jesus speak to Gentile churches in Revelation using the same language of obedience and perseverance?

Yes, Paul said we are sealed, but even he warned believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and spoke of those who could be “cut off” if they do not continue in faith (Romans 11:22). The seal is God’s promise, but it does not cancel Jesus’ call to abide in Him. Jesus said, “Abide in Me… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:4–6). That’s not fear—that’s reality. Perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18), but love does not remove responsibility. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

The gospel was always meant for all nations, and the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of Christian life. The Church is not built on Paul’s message but on Christ and His words. Paul himself said, “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11).

I understand your perspective, but saying that Jesus’ teachings were only for Israel and that the gospels don’t apply to the Church is a serious misunderstanding. Yes, God chose Israel as His starting point to bring the Messiah, but Jesus made it clear that His words were not temporary or limited to Jews. He said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). His words will judge every person—not just Israel.

Before ascending, Jesus commanded His apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20). That means the very commands He gave in the gospels were to be taught to Gentiles too. Jesus never said His teaching would expire after the resurrection; He said His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

In Revelation, Jesus speaks to churches—Gentile believers—not the nation of Israel. He calls them to faithfulness, warns them about judgment, and promises eternal life to those who overcome (Revelation 2:10; 3:5). These are the same principles He taught during His ministry. If the gospels were only for Jews, why does Jesus speak to Gentile churches in Revelation using the same language of obedience and perseverance?

Yes, Paul said we are sealed, but even he warned believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and spoke of those who could be “cut off” if they do not continue in faith (Romans 11:22). The seal is God’s promise, but it does not cancel Jesus’ call to abide in Him. Jesus said, “Abide in Me… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:4–6). That’s not fear—that’s reality. Perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18), but love does not remove responsibility. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

The gospel was always meant for all nations, and the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of Christian life. The Church is not built on Paul’s message but on Christ and His words. Paul himself said, “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11).

There are just a few basic things I've said all along.

Matt 15:24,

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

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Rom 15:4,

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.​

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Gal 3:1-3,

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?​

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2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?​

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3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​