Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Rich R]

You know what's unsettling?
That persons come up with this weird stuff.

You think YOU are qualified to do your own studying.....
Right.

2 Timothy 2:15 says something about studying the word of truth. But admittedly I've not seen who is qualified to do that. I assume you know who is qualified to study the scriptures? If you show me where the scriptures say I'm not qualified to study them, I'll close the book and put it back on the shelf

So,,,are we under ANY Covenant right now?

No. God did not make any covenant with the church of the Body of Christ.

There are specific verses that mention an old covenant being made with Israel. I mentioned the verse in Jeremiah that says God will make a new covenant with Israel and Judah (Jer 31:31. There are many others like that). Jesus spoke about a new covenant a few times with his disciples who were Jewish (I trust you realize there were no Christians when Jesus was here). So while the scriptures do talk about a covenant with Israel, there is no mention of God making a covenant with Christians.

No need to pursue.
Scripture is clear and God is clear.

Peter thought scripture was clear in Acts 10. Paul thought scripture was clear in Acts 8. I think you and I are both fortunate that neither of those 2 guys (and many others) saw no need to pursue more perfect knowledge.

 

[Muna]

But we have 20,000+ denominations with different "understanding".

The early church fathers sure understood things differently then some Christians today and they were regarded as servants of God

Paul did say that this would occur after his departure

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

There was various heresies the apostles were confronting back then, but he did write us that the many (not few) corrupt the word of God, and of things which would grow worse when it come to men. Not much you can do to change the inevitability of that, but just watch your own life and doctrine, prove all things and do not fall from your own stedfastness being led astray by wicked men.

 

[Rich R]

It doesn't really says dark glass does it? It says we look through the glass darkly. Not quite the same

The actual Greek says something along the lines of: "Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror." There are several English translations that say just that.

But that doesn't change the essence of what either you or I said. The idea of any of those wordings is that none of us sees the whole truth.

 

[Rich R]

Paul did say that this would occur after his departure

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

There was various heresies the apostles were confronting back then, but he did write us that the many (not few) corrupt the word of God, and of things which would grow worse when it come to men. Not much you can do to change the inevitability of that, but just watch your own life and doctrine, prove all things and do not fall from your own stedfastness being led astray by wicked men.

I think this is why we ought to love one another, despite any doctrinal differences we may have. None of us perfect knowledge of the scriptures. Jesus is the only man that ever did. But we can look forward to that day when we see Jesus and he'll lay it all out for us.

1 Cor 13:12,

Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.​

​

Hopefully later today, but whenever...we remain patient waiting for his return.

 

[Rich R]

Acts 20:28
28Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

WHO is being addressed? The Jews? The Christians?
Verse 21 states that Paul is speaking to both Jews and Greeks.

So was Paul ALSO preaching to the Jews?
I thought he was an Apostle to the Gentiles only?

So you do have some idea that it matters to whom something was said (at least that's what I got out of your comment here). Why then do you seemingly ignore to whom God was speaking in Jeremiah 31:31? It's just not right to appropriate something (a covenant in this case) meant for someone else as your own.

 

[nedsk]

Paul did say that this would occur after his departure

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

There was various heresies the apostles were confronting back then, but he did write us that the many (not few) corrupt the word of God, and of things which would grow worse when it come to men. Not much you can do to change the inevitability of that, but just watch your own life and doctrine, prove all things and do not fall from your own stedfastness being led astray by wicked men.

And the early church fathers sound nothing like a lot of "Christians" here

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sorry But, You are not more powerful than God

And agasin, You do not know what the bread of life is.. I am amazed at people who have these nicnames, like bread of life and grace. who have no comprehension of what those terms even mean.

do you think God will look up to you because you have that name?

Never said I was.

He gave us ALL a free will. But people like YOU think that God is a cosmic rapist who needs to force His love on us. We are free to love and trust Him – and we are free to walk away from Him – just like the Prodigal Son. We are also free to return to Him in repentance – again, like the Prodigal Son.

FREE WILL.
That is the measure of God’s love.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nice try but no reward for you.
then again, You do not even understand what the true bread from heaven is so..

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

You completely ignore the verses that indicate that works are an essential element of what “Faith” is (Eph. 10:8-10, 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Gal. 5-6, James 2:14-24).

ALL of the guarantees and assurances you listed above are conditional on endurance or FAITH (Matt. 24:13, 1 Cor. 9:24, Gal. 6:9, Heb. 12:1-2, Jam. 1:2) – and FAITH depends on completing those works that GOD prepared for us to do (Eph. 2:10, Matt. 25:31-46).

You can run – but you can’t hide . . .

 

[Muna]

I think this is why we ought to love one another, despite any doctrinal differences we may have. None of us perfect knowledge of the scriptures. Jesus is the only man that ever did. But we can look forward to that day when we see Jesus and he'll lay it all out for us.

1 Cor 13:12,

Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.​

​

Hopefully later today, but whenever...we remain patient waiting for his return.

I agree, the verse prior to the one you posted is

1 Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1 Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Paul was not carnal (but spiritual Gal 6:1) but was speaking as a man (Rom 3:5) to them (which were yet carnal 1 Cr 3:1-2) as he becomes all things to all men to help them, and relates to them (in his speaking) as unto carnal even as he said

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

But Paul was not carnal, he was spiritual, even as he speaks of them which are spiritual

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

 

[nedsk]

Never said I was.

He gave us ALL a free will. But people like YOU think that God is a cosmic rapist who needs to force His love on us. We are free to love and trust Him – and we are free to walk away from Him – just like the Prodigal Son. We are also free to return to Him in repentance – again, like the Prodigal Son.

FREE WILL.
That is the measure of God’s love.

This is well stated!

 

[nedsk]

You completely ignore the verses that indicate that works are an essential element of what “Faith” is (Eph. 10:8-10, 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Gal. 5-6, James 2:14-24).

ALL of the guarantees and assurances you listed above are conditional on endurance or FAITH (Matt. 24:13, 1 Cor. 9:24, Gal. 6:9, Heb. 12:1-2, Jam. 1:2) – and FAITH depends on completing those works that GOD prepared for us to do (Eph. 2:10, Matt. 25:31-46).

You can run – but you can’t hide . . .

Essential but not sufficient. Excellent

 

[Muna]

And the early church fathers sound nothing like a lot of "Christians" here

Back then there was the preaching of Christ of envy and strife

Phil 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will

And those who loved to have the preeminence (which belongs to Christ Col 1:18) and do what John points out

2 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

You name quite a few, but as far as strong godly men who reprove and rebuke with all authority, they seem much fewer.

They could have changed their pronouns, who knows?

 

[nedsk]

Back then there was the preaching of Christ of envy and strife

Phil 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will

And those who loved to have the preeminence (which belongs to Christ Col 1:18) and do what John points out

2 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

You name quite a few, but as far as strong godly men who reprove and rebuke with all authority, they seem much fewer.

They could have changed their pronouns, who knows?

The nearly church fathers defended the Christian faith against a vast number of heresies. The church was mostly unified until the appearance of the looney little monk who was Catholic btw because there weren't any other kinds of Christians. Some of the church fathers were disciples of the apostles. And Jesus said he would send the holy Spirit to guide the church, his church and the netherworld shall never prevail against it.

 

[Muna]

The nearly church fathers defended the Christian faith against a vast number of heresies.

That is good to do

The church was mostly unified until the appearance of the looney little monk who was Catholic btw because there weren't any other kinds of Christians.

I have no idea what you are saying here

Some of the church fathers were disciples of the apostles.

And we know that there was a betrayer that was a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Apostle and high priest of our profession.

And Jesus said he would send the holy Spirit to guide the church, his church and the netherworld shall never prevail against it.

Right,

1 John 2
[26]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,
and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Thats a great comfort.

 

[Rich R]

Never said I was.

He gave us ALL a free will. But people like YOU think that God is a cosmic rapist who needs to force His love on us. We are free to love and trust Him – and we are free to walk away from Him – just like the Prodigal Son. We are also free to return to Him in repentance – again, like the Prodigal Son.

FREE WILL.
That is the measure of God’s love.

Good reminder.

I also understand the risk that God took in giving us free will. He risked the ruin of the garden of Eden by human. Unfortunately, the choices made by Adam and Eve ruined God's original plan. Good thing He had a plan "B" in mind (the logos of John 1:1)!

 

[nedsk]

That is good to do

I have no idea what you are saying here


And we know that there was a betrayer that was a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Apostle and high priest of our profession.


Right,

1 John 2
[26]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,
and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Thats a great comfort.

The only point that matters is that until the 1500s the church ie: Christians, didn't teach OSAS or sola fide or sola scriptura.

 

[nedsk]

Good reminder.

I also understand the risk that God took in giving us free will. He risked the ruin of the garden of Eden by human. Unfortunately, the choices made by Adam and Eve ruined God's original plan. Good thing He had a plan "B" in mind (the logos of John 1:1)!

And plan "B" still deals with free will which is how we lose our salvation. We can get it back though as BoL rightly points out from scripture.

 

[Muna]

The only point that matters is that until the 1500s the church ie: Christians, didn't teach OSAS or sola fide or sola scriptura.

I don't know why the date 1500's should be important to me, or how this OSAS comes into that, or what sola fide is.

 

[nedsk]

I don't know why the date 1500's should be important to me, or how this OSAS comes into that, or what sola fide is.

Are you Catholic?

 

[Rich R]

And plan "B" still deals with free will which is how we lose our salvation. We can get it back though as BoL rightly points out from scripture.

Can you be certain, beyond any doubt, what you will be doing tomorrow, next year, the next decade? How can you be certain that you will not do whatever you think it takes to lose your salvation? Be honest. If you are honest, I think you have to say you really can't guarantee that you will not do whatever you think causes you to lose your salvation. Does that not cause you to walk everyday in fear? It must be awful to live with the fear of losing your salvation because of something you might do in the future. I can't imagine how awful it must be.