Sound Doctrine (Second Coming of Christ in that generation.)

[keithr]

You will soon believe in the eternal Hell fire. Everybody will!

So many people that post on this forum seem to be revelling in the idea of people being tormented in extreme agony for all eternity. That thought is pure evil, even more evil than what the so called Palestinians did to the Israeli's on 7th October 2023 and what the Nazi's did to the Jews in World War 2. It is an abomination to God to kill somebody in fire; there's no way that God would even think about torturing anybody in fire for all eternity. God said:

Jeremiah 32:35 (WEB):

(35) They built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through fire to Molech; which I didn’t command them. It didn’t even come into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”​

God does not commit sins.

1 John 4:8 (WEB):

(8) He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love.​

Galatians 5:18,22-23 (WEB):

(18) But if you are led by the Spirit {God's Holy Spirit}, you are not under the law.​

(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,​

(23) gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.​

Torturing people in fire for eternity is not a fruit of God's Holy Spirit.

Psalms 130:3-4 (WEB):

(3) If you, Yah, kept a record of sins, Lord, who could stand?​

(4) But there is forgiveness with you, therefore you are feared.​

Psalms 30:5 (WEB):

(5) For his anger is but for a moment. His favor is for a lifetime. Weeping may stay for the night, but joy comes in the morning.​

 

[Jack]

So many people that post on this forum seem to be revelling in the idea of people being tormented in extreme agony for all eternity. That thought is pure evil, even more evil than what the so called Palestinians did to the Israeli's on 7th October 2023 and what the Nazi's did to the Jews in World War 2. It is an abomination to God to kill somebody in fire; there's no way that God would even think about torturing anybody in fire for all eternity. God said:

If you're not pulling people from the fire you're leading them to the fire.

Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

Torturing people in fire for eternity is not a fruit of God's Holy Spirit.

Then why did Jesus warn us several times? You don't believe in Hell? You will!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

That isn't the environment of the eternal state. That was a temporal issue taking place in the world at that time when Jude was being written. Those in the church in those days were to evangelize others, using a different manner of convincing them, depending on whether the person was obstinate or willing to listen.

Remember, the "torment" was going to be taking place while day and night were still going on - so we are not talking about an eternal fate of perpetual torment in the "Lake of fire" environment. This was taking place on earth.

 

[Jack]

That isn't the environment of the eternal state. That was a temporal issue taking place in the world at that time when Jude was being written. Those in the church in those days were to evangelize others, using a different manner of convincing them, depending on whether the person was obstinate or willing to listen.

Remember, the "torment" was going to be taking place while day and night were still going on - so we are not talking about an eternal fate of perpetual torment in the "Lake of fire" environment. This was taking place on earth.

Rev 20 "They will be tormented day and night FOREVER"!

Satan LOVES it when people don't believe in eternal punishment in fire!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Rev 20 "They will be tormented day and night FOREVER"!

Satan LOVES it when people don't believe in eternal punishment in fire!

"Forever" doesn't always translate in Scripture as meaning something perpetual with no ending. As in Isaiah 32:14-15. "Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens FOR EVER, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks; UNTIL the spirit be poured upon us from on high..." In this case, this ruined state of affairs would continue unabated UNTIL God's Spirit came upon them.

Same thing for the "forever" torment of those in the Lake of Fire environment in Jerusalem in AD 70. God intended those fires to continue unabated UNTIL they had destroyed both the Satanic realm, the city, the temple, and the nation at the culmination of the ages back then.

"Eternal punishment" is experienced by the wicked dead in that they are destroyed both body and soul in the judgment. They "PERISH" utterly, and are never again revived to life again in any sense whatever. They "consume away like smoke", or like the "chaff". God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He says. Even more so, He would not take pleasure in the wicked living perpetually in a tormented after-life existence. God is a "CONSUMING fire", so that when the souls of the wicked dead are exposed to that Eternal Source of the fiery stream of utter holiness issuing from His throne of judgment, they do not survive the experience and are consumed by it.

 

[Jack]

"Forever" doesn't always translate in Scripture as meaning something perpetual with no ending. As in Isaiah 32:14-15. "Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens FOR EVER, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks; UNTIL the spirit be poured upon us from on high..." In this case, this ruined state of affairs would continue unabated UNTIL God's Spirit came upon them.

Same thing for the "forever" torment of those in the Lake of Fire environment in Jerusalem in AD 70. God intended those fires to continue unabated UNTIL they had destroyed both the Satanic realm, the city, the temple, and the nation at the culmination of the ages back then.

"Eternal punishment" is experienced by the wicked dead in that they are destroyed both body and soul in the judgment. They "PERISH" utterly, and are never again revived to life again in any sense whatever. They "consume away like smoke", or like the "chaff". God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He says. Even more so, He would not take pleasure in the wicked living perpetually in a tormented after-life existence. God is a "CONSUMING fire", so that when the souls of the wicked dead are exposed to that Eternal Source of the fiery stream of utter holiness issuing from His throne of judgment, they do not survive the experience and are consumed by it.

Well then, everlasting life doesn't mean everlasting, according to you.

 

[MatthewG]

I find it interesting that people whom are faithless live outside of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Idk what it is like but people who do not want God will live in that place outside the kingdom.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Well then, everlasting life doesn't mean everlasting, according to you.

It depends on the context. Look above at what I wrote. " 'Forever' does not ALWAYS translate in Scripture as meaning something perpetual with no ending." Sometimes it DOES mean perpetual, such as describing God: "Underneath are the everlasting arms..."

In the context of Christ describing everlasting life, Christ said "Whosoever believeth in Him shall not PERISH, but have everlasting life." In this context, the direct contrast is made between those who DO NOT believe in Christ (who PERISH), and those who DO believe in Christ, who are immediately given everlasting life of their soul, and eventually everlasting life of their bodies also in the resurrection.

 

[Jack]

It depends on the context. Look above at what I wrote. " 'Forever' does not ALWAYS translate in Scripture as meaning something perpetual with no ending." Sometimes it DOES mean perpetual, such as describing God: "Underneath are the everlasting arms..."

In the context of Christ describing everlasting life, Christ said "Whosoever believeth in Him shall not PERISH, but have everlasting life." In this context, the direct contrast is made between those who DO NOT believe in Christ (who PERISH), and those who DO believe in Christ, who are immediately given everlasting life of their soul, and eventually everlasting life of their bodies also in the resurrection.

So you don't believe in everlasting life???

 

[Jack]

I find it interesting that people whom are faithless live outside of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Idk what it is like but people who do not want God will live in that place outside the kingdom.

Is there anything in the Bible you believe to be the written Word of God??????

 

[3 Resurrections]

So you don't believe in everlasting life???

Please read a little more carefully and slowly. It is those who believe who possess eternal life of the soul while in this life, with the Spirit's guarantee that their bodies will also be eventually changed into the incorruptible and immortal condition in the bodily resurrection process. THESE are granted everlasting life - but NOT the unbelieving wicked who do not have eternal life of the soul in this life, and therefore are destined to "PERISH" utterly in the judgment - both body and soul. They are NOT destined to an everlasting, perpetual life of flaming torment after the judgment. We are warned to fear Him who, after death, has power to destroy both body and soul.

 

[Jack]

Please read a little more carefully and slowly. It is those who believe who possess eternal life of the soul while in this life, with the Spirit's guarantee that their bodies will also be eventually changed into the incorruptible and immortal condition in the bodily resurrection process. THESE are granted everlasting life - but NOT the unbelieving wicked who do not have eternal life of the soul in this life, and therefore are destined to "PERISH" utterly in the judgment - both body and soul. They are NOT destined to an everlasting, perpetual life of flaming torment after the judgment. We are warned to fear Him who, after death, has power to destroy both body and soul.

Do you realize that you will be held accountable for everyone you lead to Hell fire? Do you realize that Satan will burn in Hell FOREVER???

 

[MatthewG]

Do you realize that you will be held accountable for everyone you lead to Hell fire? Do you realize that Satan will burn in Hell FOREVER???

On the internet, I don't care for many people's opinions. So... Sure, I am the causation of many people going to hell :rollseyes:


I rather be honest with you cause I really do not care what peoples opinions are, they can have them, and they are responsible for them, in the end...

It's up the individual to decide.

 

[Jack]

On the internet, I don't care for many people's opinions. So... Sure, I am the causation of many people going to hell :rollseyes:


I rather be honest with you cause I really do not care what peoples opinions are, they can have them, and they are responsible for them, in the end...

It's up the individual to decide.

Those who persuade people that there is no eternal Hell fire are in the worst trouble imaginable. They will wish they never touched a keyboard.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Do you realize that you will be held accountable for everyone you lead to Hell fire? Do you realize that Satan will burn in Hell FOREVER???

Satan's fate was to be slain by God - not to be tormented perpetually in a supposed perpetual "Hell fire". Read Isaiah 27:1. Also read the fate of the "anointed cherub" who had been in Eden, according to God's prediction for him in Ezekiel 28:11-19. He would bring a fire out of the midst of that anointed cherub, and bring him to ashes upon the earth in the sight of everyone who had feared him, "and never shalt thou be anymore." Satan the formerly-anointed cherub was going to be destroyed by being burned to ashes on this occasion, and would cease to exist anymore.

Hades is simply the grave, in which the mortal remains of the wicked are left to disintegrate into the dust. Isaiah 26:14 writes concerning the wicked dead, "They are dead, they shall NOT live; they are deceased, they shall NOT RISE: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish." This fate for the bodies of the wicked dead is in direct contrast to the children of God in Isaiah 26:19. "THY dead men SHALL live; together with my dead body shall they ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This end of the age already happened in AD 70. The "furnace of fire" was located in Jerusalem, as Isaiah 31:9 once wrote about God's fire being in Zion, and His furnace in Jerusalem. That wicked generation who had rejected Christ were indeed wailing and gnashing their teeth as they were besieged in the burning city of Jerusalem. "Lord, lord, open unto us", they would be pleading as they witnessed His bodily return to the Mount of Olives back then. "We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets." (Luke 13:25-26). A personal encounter with the incarnate Christ while He was on earth did not entitle them to be taken to heaven with the returning Christ back then. Christ only came to retrieve all the bodily-resurrected saints back then, and return to heaven with them. This left the Christ-rejecting Jews to die later on in the disintegrating city as it burned up for the second time.

 

[Jack]

Satan's fate was to be slain by God - not to be tormented perpetually in a supposed perpetual "Hell fire".

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Read Isaiah 27:1. Also read the fate of the "anointed cherub" who had been in Eden, according to God's prediction for him in Ezekiel 28:11-19. He would bring a fire out of the midst of that anointed cherub, and bring him to ashes upon the earth in the sight of everyone who had feared him, "and never shalt thou be anymore." Satan the formerly-anointed cherub was going to be destroyed by being burned to ashes on this occasion, and would cease to exist anymore.

Hades is simply the grave, in which the mortal remains of the wicked are left to disintegrate into the dust. Isaiah 26:14 writes concerning the wicked dead, "They are dead, they shall NOT live; they are deceased, they shall NOT RISE: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish." This fate for the bodies of the wicked dead is in direct contrast to the children of God in Isaiah 26:19. "THY dead men SHALL live; together with my dead body shall they ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."


This end of the age already happened in AD 70. The "furnace of fire" was located in Jerusalem, as Isaiah 31:9 once wrote about God's fire being in Zion, and His furnace in Jerusalem. That wicked generation who had rejected Christ were indeed wailing and gnashing their teeth as they were besieged in the burning city of Jerusalem. "Lord, lord, open unto us", they would be pleading as they witnessed His bodily return to the Mount of Olives back then. "We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets." (Luke 13:25-26). A personal encounter with the incarnate Christ while He was on earth did not entitle them to be taken to heaven with the returning Christ back then. Christ only came to retrieve all the bodily-resurrected saints back then, and return to heaven with them. This left the Christ-rejecting Jews to die in the disintegrating city as it burned up for the second time.

Belief in the eternal Hell is not required for residency therein. Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell, "FOREVER and EVER"! Jesus said so. Your imagination does not overrule Jesus!

 

[3 Resurrections]

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This was not a perpetual "forever and ever" throughout eternity. It was torment for Satan, his devils, and the Scarlet Beast and the Judean False Prophet, up until the "ends of the ages", which Paul wrote had arrived for that first-century generation back then. "...and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (written around AD 57). A set of ages was reaching its culmination point in Paul's days, and the torment experienced by Satan and his devils with the Scarlet Beast and the Judean False Prophet was soon going to come to an end in AD 70 at the culmination of those ages.

The unclean spirits were well aware of the timing of this torment that was approaching for them, which is why they asked Christ, "art thou come to torment us before the time?" The entire Satanic realm was going to be imprisoned within the city of Jerusalem, making it "a habitation of devils and a prison for every unclean spirit." (Rev. 18:2). Isaiah had also prophesied about this in Isaiah 24:21-23. God was going to punish the host of the high ones and the kings of the earth by their being gathered together like prisoners in a pit for many days. After those many days had passed, they would be "found wanting", which means GONE from existence.

Satan and his devils knew all about this Isaiah 24:21-23 prediction of their imprisonment and punishment in Jerusalem which would end in their utter destruction so that they would not exist anymore.

 

[Jack]

This was not a perpetual "forever and ever" throughout eternity.

So Jesus is wrong and you are right?

It was torment for Satan, his devils, and the Scarlet Beast and the Judean False Prophet, up until the "ends of the ages", which Paul wrote had arrived for that first-century generation back then. "...and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (written around AD 57). A set of ages was reaching its culmination point in Paul's days, and the torment experienced by Satan and his devils with the Scarlet Beast and the Judean False Prophet was soon going to come to an end in AD 70 at the culmination of those ages.

The unclean spirits were well aware of the timing of this torment that was approaching for them, which is why they asked Christ, "art thou come to torment us before the time?" The entire Satanic realm was going to be imprisoned within the city of Jerusalem, making it "a habitation of devils and a prison for every unclean spirit." (Rev. 18:2). Isaiah had also prophesied about this in Isaiah 24:21-23. God was going to punish the host of the high ones and the kings of the earth by their being gathered together like prisoners in a pit for many days. After those many days had passed, they would be "found wanting", which means GONE from existence.

Satan and his devils knew all about this Isaiah 24:21-23 prediction of their imprisonment and punishment in Jerusalem which would end in their utter destruction so that they would not exist anymore.

Those burning in Hell FOREVER will wish they were destroyed!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.

Jesus is correct, but your interpretation of His words is NOT. You apparently don't realize the timing for the manifestation of that Scarlet Beast. John wrote in Revelation 17:8 that this Scarlet Beast once "WAS" in existence, then it "IS NOT" (it had gone out of existence in John's days), but it was "ABOUT TO ARISE...AND GO INTO DESTRUCTION." In other words, from John's perspective on the timeline, this Scarlet Beast was about to arise to existence soon after John wrote Revelation, but it would also soon go into destruction shortly after that. It wasn't going to last very long at all. And since Satan suffered torment at the same time that the Scarlet Beast did, they both shared the same fate of destruction at the same time in the city of Jerusalem back in AD 70.

 

[Jack]

Jesus is correct, but your interpretation of His words is NOT. You apparently don't realize the timing for the manifestation of that Scarlet Beast. John wrote in Revelation 17:8 that this Scarlet Beast once "WAS" in existence, then it "IS NOT" (it had gone out of existence in John's days), but it was "ABOUT TO ARISE...AND GO INTO DESTRUCTION." In other words, from John's perspective on the timeline, this Scarlet Beast was about to arise to existence soon after John wrote Revelation, but it would also soon go into destruction shortly after that. It wasn't going to last very long at all. And since Satan suffered torment at the same time that the Scarlet Beast did, they both shared the same fate of destruction at the same time in the city of Jerusalem back in AD 70.

What makes you think your unBiblical imagination overrules Jesus?

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: