When Christ returns, we shall all be changed, including heaven and earth, actually all things are changed out for something better.

[3 Resurrections]

Good grief. Get over yourself. Comparing yourself to Paul? You know nothing compared to Paul.

I'm disappointed that you think I am comparing myself to Paul. Actually, I am attempting to emulate Christ, which is a duty we are all called to do. I was QUOTING Paul, which we are all entitled to do.

God has not yet judged the world. My goodness you are completely lacking in discernment. Has He judged you yet? No. I'm sure you have not yet stood before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of yourself. He will judge all people at the same time, as Matthew 25:31-46 indicates and that has not yet happened.

That is not what Paul was saying to Felix in Acts 24:25, "...as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment about to come, Felix trembled..."
And it is not what Paul was saying to those on Mars Hill in Acts 17:31, "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he is about to judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained..."
James 5 wrote that "the judge standeth before the door", when "the coming of the Lord has drawn near" for that first-century generation to experience in their days.

My judgment before the throne of God has not yet occurred because the next final judgment in the future has not yet arrived on the calendar. God judged all the dead back in AD 70, just as Matthew 25:31-46 mentioned. God will again judge all the dead in the future who will have died after AD 70. Nobody gets out of this experience of giving an account before God. You want to limit this to one occasion ONLY, but that is not how the Scriptures describe it.

If you're begging, then that would indicate you have doubts. You don't have to beg. You can calmly and confidently ask Him for wisdom and He will give it to you if you don't doubt.

Did you not read my confident assertion above that God will not give me a stone if I ask for bread? I trust my Father in heaven implicitly to make good on His promise that "they who seek the Lord understand all things". This is a promise which I can wholeheartedly depend upon. But we have this treasure in "earthen vessels", so that the credit for any excellency of power may be of God and not of us (2 Cor. 4:7). I don't put trust my failing memory, or in my own ability to exegete the Scriptures properly, but I have unbounded trust that God is able to teach me personally out of His word with the aid of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[3 Resurrections]

LOL. Self praise is no recommendation. You are deluding yourself, just like Joseph Smith. You are nothing like Paul. He was humble and enlightened.

Only someone who is trying to make another person "an offender for a word" would think that my comment was giving self-praise. You are presuming to assign a heart attitude to me that you have absolutely no way of knowing is true or not. I have also been praying for many years that God would not allow me to believe a lie when it comes to understanding eschatology themes. Why wouldn't God answer that prayer for me, if I am asking in faith?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm disappointed that you think I am comparing myself to Paul. Actually, I am attempting to emulate Christ, which is a duty we are all called to do. I was QUOTING Paul, which we are all entitled to do.

You compared the situation between how you are being treated with how Paul was being treated, so you were indeed comparing yourself to Paul. Which is a joke, obviously.

That is not what Paul was saying to Felix in Acts 24:25, "...as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment about to come, Felix trembled..."
And it is not what Paul was saying to those on Mars Hill in Acts 17:31, "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he is about to judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained..."

This "about to" nonsense comes from your imagination. That is not what it says. You are constantly twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say, which makes it so that I can't take you seriously at all.

The Greek word "mello" is not only used to refer to things that were about to happen soon.

It is used in this verse, for example:

Matt 11:14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is (mello) to come.

Jesus was talking about John the Baptist there and he didn't come until 400+ years after he was prophesied to come in Malachi 4:5-6.

James 5 wrote that "the judge standeth before the door", when "the coming of the Lord has drawn near" for that first-century generation to experience in their days.

My judgment before the throne of God has not yet occurred because the next final judgment in the future has not yet arrived on the calendar. God judged all the dead back in AD 70, just as Matthew 25:31-46 mentioned. God will again judge all the dead in the future who will have died after AD 70. Nobody gets out of this experience of giving an account before God. You want to limit this to one occasion ONLY, but that is not how the Scriptures describe it.

The next final judgment? LOL. So, I guess the previous final judgment isn't actually final then? LOL. I'm done with this nonsense.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You compared the situation between how you are being treated with how Paul was being treated, so you were indeed comparing yourself to Paul.

No, the comparison was between the mocking being done to Paul's comments at Mars Hill, and with your own mocking of Paul's quotes. I don't enter into the offended category in this situation at all. Your offense is against Paul's words.

This "about to" nonsense comes from your imagination. That is not what it says. You are constantly twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say, which makes it so that I can't take you seriously at all.

The "mello" term is not my own imagination. The Greek word carries the sense of imminence, and should be translated as such. Those who translate this term generically by their own choice are blurring the true meaning of the Scriptures.

Matt 11:14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is (mello) to come.

Jesus was talking about John the Baptist there and he didn't come until 400+ years after he was prophesied to come in Malachi 4:5-6.

It is yourself that is misunderstanding this text. The Malachi 4:5-6 prophecy about God sending Elijah before the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" did not use the word "mello" in that book. Christ employed the "mello" term, as it was applying to His own days for the fulfillment of that "great and dreadful day of the Lord" which was in the near future for those times.

The next final judgment? LOL. So, I guess the previous final judgment isn't actually final then? LOL. I'm done with this nonsense.

As I already said, there are some people who derive great enjoyment from making a person "an offender for a word". In this case, you are making me an offender for not inserting a comma in the correct place. "The next, final judgment". There. That should fix it for you. You seem to be a rather tense individual. Have a little patience with your fellow believers.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, the comparison was between the mocking being done to Paul's comments at Mars Hill, and with your own mocking of Paul's quotes. I don't enter into the offended category in this situation at all. Your offense is against Paul's words.

Get serious. You are very dishonest. You know darn well that I was not mocking Paul's quotes. I would never do such a thing. You know I was mocking your interpretation of his quotes. Why do you think that blatantly misrepresenting me dishonestly like this is acceptable?

The "mello" term is not my own imagination. The Greek word carries the sense of imminence, and should be translated as such. Those who translate this term generically by their own choice are blurring the true meaning of the Scriptures.

I showed you an example where the word was used to describe something that didn't occur until 400+ years later, so you have no idea of what you're talking about. It does not have to refer to something that is imminent.

It is yourself that is misunderstanding this text. The Malachi 4:5-6 prophecy about God sending Elijah before the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" did not use the word "mello" in that book.

That word is used to refer to that prophecy describing the coming of Elijah which didn't happen until 400+ years later. As usual, you are trying to twist scripture to fit your doctrine.

Christ employed the "mello" term, as it was applying to His own days for the fulfillment of that "great and dreadful day of the Lord" which was in the near future for those times.

Nonsense. John the Baptist had already come when He said that, so He was referring back to the time of the prophecy that talked about the Elijah to come and he didn't end up coming until 400+ years later.

As I already said, there are some people who derive great enjoyment from making a person "an offender for a word". In this case, you are making me an offender for not inserting a comma in the correct place. "The next, final judgment". There. That should fix it for you. You seem to be a rather tense individual. Have a little patience with your fellow believers.

I don't take kindly to people blatantly twisting the word of God and will not apologize for that. Scripture also never teaches multiple judgments, so adding the comma there does little to change anything in terms of how false your beliefs are.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

every eye will see Him

means every one paying attention understands he has returned. ok ....the return is not what you wanted or expected . its not over yet .
reading Matthew 24. 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.(has that happened? yes it has!) 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. (has that happened? yes it has) See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.(has that happend ? yes it has!) And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.(has that happened ? yes it has!) 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.''


all these things were to be a sign that he has returned, he is present. separating people those that listen and those that dont .

 

[WPM]

means every one paying attention understands he has returned. ok ....the return is not what you wanted or expected . its not over yet .
reading Matthew 24. 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.(has that happened? yes it has!) 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. (has that happened? yes it has) See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.(has that happend ? yes it has!) And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.(has that happened ? yes it has!) 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.''


all these things were to be a sign that he has returned, he is present. separating people those that listen and those that dont .

More Preterist heretical heresy.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

More Preterist heretical heresy.

oh,,,you don't like it

 

[WPM]

oh,,,you don't like it

Correct. Neither does God.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

Correct. Neither does God.

odd that you say that when its in print in the Bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is incorrect. Scripture never tells us that an Antichrist would require every human to take a mark. It was the "Beast from the land" with its two-horned power structure in Revelation 13 which required the mark giving homage to the ancient Sea Beast (the Sea Beast which was given the throne of Satan in the city of Pergamos back in 133 BC). The "mark" is ancient history by now, since its use was dropped back in AD 66 when the Jewish / Roman war started.

The one and only Antichrist "Man of Lawlessness" and his restrainer were already in existence during the days when Paul was writing to the Thessalonians. Paul had already told them who the Antichrist and his restrainer were. You don't have to guess, because both individuals already died back in AD 66.


Again, you are misquoting the Scripture account. It was not scorpions, but something nicknamed "locusts" who had tails like scorpions. All that language in Revelation 9 was descriptive of the Roman soldiers serving the evil Judean governor Gessius Florus who were tormenting Israel's inhabitants for a five-month period in the summer of AD 66 to goad them into a rebellion against Rome. Florus succeeded in his five-month attempt, which led to the unequalled "days of vengeance" which came upon Judea and Jerusalem, which would never be duplicated in history following that time.

You really try hard to make "this generation " say what you want.

I already told you when Jesus said to his disciples,not a hair on your head will be harmed/ perish, it is something that you also cannot unpack.... Because you are one dimensional.
you don't understand what's being said there

Fast forward to Jesus saying;, "this generation."
Now what could Jesus mean by "this generation"? ....Since that generation did not see all those things fulfilled?.
Instead, you just fling your doctor at it, and say , "it has to mean, this certain one dimensional thing that's in my mind"?

Try real hard to make "this generation" fit into "2000 years ago"

Oh wait...you ALREADY VIEW THE ENTIRE BIBLE AS A HISTORY BOOK.

HAS THE GWT JUDGEMENT ALREADY HAPPENED AS WELL????
DID WE MISS THAT ONE ALSO????

Not even in your wildest efforts can you erase history.

HISTORT TELLS US WITHOUT QUESTION, There has never been an Antichrist that required every human to take a mark.
There has never been an Antichrist that killed millions of Christians for refusing a mark.

There has never been an Antichrist that would not let Christians buy or sell unless they took the mark.
So that means there's never been the entire world of devil worshippers with no believers.

There has never been a time in history where there were flying scorpions, that would Sting mankind, and men would ask to die from the severe pain. There's never been a time in history of hail stones of fire coming up on the world.
According to your "Jesus came and we missed it" doctrine ,Jesus lied when he said; " Tribulation will come in the future, that is so severe, it has never happened before, and never will happen again"


You're entire Deal is so bizarre and busted. It is beyond words.

****************THIS**************

History proves the rapture and second coming Will Be future.

The ad 70 notion is so weak. They only convince themselves.

" the romans are the flying scorpions"
" the romans fulfilled the AC"

What a joke

 

[rebuilder 454]

I would say it is the "miserable focus" of those who mistakenly and stubbornly insist on placing all these Revelation disasters into our future when all the Scriptures clearly tell us that those disasters were "at hand" for the first-century generation to experience. Anything "at hand" is NOT extended some 2,000 years and counting for their fulfillment. We today do not anticipate those "days of vengeance", which were prophesied all the way back in Deuteronomy 32's "Song of Moses" for the "latter end" of disobedient Israel as a people to experience. Your viewpoint makes the heart of God's people today sad, whom He has not made sad. Christ was more optimistic, by promising the continued growth of His kingdom in this world, like leaven and the mustard seed and Daniel's stone kingdom which has already struck that image and turned it to dust on the wind.

I have backed all my statements with a combination of Scripture references which do not contradict each other. And I have told you that my entire paradigm centers around Christ's "FIRST resurrection" in AD 33. This includes my expectant hope for His glorious bodily return in our future to purify this planet of all remaining human evil from then onward. If what I write is so disturbing for you, then simply don't respond to any of my comments - it's that simple.

The worldwide mark you can not reconcile.
That has never happened but will.

You know you really should look it up.

" Every man, woman, and child whether they're free or bond,receive the mark in their hand or their forehead, except those who are not written in the lambs book of life.

That my friend has never happened, no matter how creative you get

 

[3 Resurrections]

" the romans are the flying scorpions"

You keep misidentifying the creatures in that Rev. 9 prophecy. They weren't scorpions. They were called "locusts" who had tails like scorpions. All that symbolic language describes the torment caused by the soldiers under Gessius Florus the Judean governor who was doing his best to incite a rebellion against Rome in AD 66. The helmets, the field weaponry called "scorpions", the five-month time restriction on that torment given to those in the land of Israel - all of this was fulfilled in that AD 66 period.

" the romans fulfilled the AC"

You are right - the Romans were NOT the fulfillment of the Antichrist. This was the Jewish Zealot leader Menahem in AD 66 who actually got into the second temple dressed in Herod's royal regalia, "showing himself" and "exalting himself" as being the "King of the Jews" in the temple itself - a title reserved only for Christ Jesus. That "Man of Lawlessness" died in AD 66.

The worldwide mark you can not reconcile.
That has never happened but will.

The "mark" imposed by the Judean Land Beast of Rev. 13 giving homage to the Roman phase of the Sea Beast of Rev. 13 is a matter of ancient history. The "mark" was the abominable Tyrian shekel which the high priesthood required as the only coin allowed for sales and purchases of sacrificial items for worship. Anybody from any nation coming to worship at the second temple was required to exchange their foreign currency for the high-priesthood-approved Tyrian shekel with its forbidden pagan images and inscriptions which gave homage to Rome and its gods before they could buy or sell any sacrificial items in the temple. And they had to pay a fee for the exchange process. The money-changers were collecting this fee for the high priests - rather like a temple ATM machine. This is why Christ was so enraged at these money-changers who had turned His Father's house into a "den of thieves".

" Every man, woman, and child whether they're free or bond,receive the mark in their hand or their forehead, except those who are not written in the lambs book of life.

That my friend has never happened, no matter how creative you get

Yes, that "mark" has happened, as a high priesthood requirement that lasted from 19 BC until AD 66 when the Zealots began the rebellion against Rome and chucked this former high priesthood requirement to use only the Tyrian shekel for temple transactions. The Zealots started minting their own coinage then in AD 66 as an independent nation.

People were supposed to use this abominable Tyrian shekel to also pay the yearly Temple Tax. Also, women wore a set of ten of these coins on the forehead portion of their draped headdress, which denoted their marital status. The woman in the parable that Christ gave who lost one of these coins was panicked, because this loss was the equivalent of a woman today losing her wedding ring somewhere in the house.

History proves the rapture and second coming Will Be future.

That is not what Christ and all the Scriptures have said. The "rapture" to heaven of ONLY the bodily-resurrected saints occurred back on AD 70's Pentecost day, according to the very precise prediction in Daniel 12:11-13. The second coming of Christ has come and gone. We are presently waiting for the third bodily resurrection in our future, as the third event on Paul's list of resurrection events found in 1 Cor. 15:22-24.

 

[WPM]

odd that you say that when its in print in the Bible.

Not so! That is your opinion. But you cannot prove it.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

Not so! That is your opinion. But you cannot prove it.

start here Matthew 24. 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.(has that happened? yes it has!)
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. (has that happened? yes it has)
See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.(has that happen ? yes it has!)
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.(has that happened ? yes it has!)

perhaps what you are looking for is the fulfillment of prophecies yet in the future for prof ? you wont like it . does the word Armageddon mean anything to you ? its described as a war ,a serious one sided war in which God's side win's .
for now there is a separating going on ,people he likes from people he does not like . consider what Matthew 24:5 ''For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.'' even you have been deceived .

 

[WPM]

start here Matthew 24. 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.(has that happened? yes it has!)
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. (has that happened? yes it has)
See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.(has that happen ? yes it has!)
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.(has that happened ? yes it has!)

perhaps what you are looking for is the fulfillment of prophecies yet in the future for prof ? you wont like it . does the word Armageddon mean anything to you ? its described as a war ,a serious one sided war in which God's side win's .
for now there is a separating going on ,people he likes from people he does not like . consider what Matthew 24:5 ''For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.'' even you have been deceived .

You have proved nothing but your own opinions here. This has been ongoing fulfillment over the years.

Armageddon is not a battle. They just simply prepare for battle. Christ destroys His enemies with His one final future appearing.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Armageddon is not a battle. They just simply prepare for battle

You are absolutely correct here. The Armageddon site was only where the combatants were "gathered together". From that location, they were to "go up on the breadth of the earth" across the land of Israel, converging on the "beloved city" of Jerusalem where the battle actually was to take place.

But this already happened back in the AD 66-70 period. The plain of Megiddo was the staging ground where all the Roman troops and their auxiliary forces from other nations were gathered together after the Romans landed at Ptolemais on the coast. The Jewish Zealot forces of Simon bar Giora were also based very near this location at Nain, where Simon's huge army which eventually grew to 40,000 had its capital and stored their supplies. Both of these Roman and Zealot opposing forces made their way across the land of Israel, aiming for Jerusalem as the location where they would stage the battle for the city of Jerusalem. Simon arrived at Jerusalem in AD 69 and seized leadership control of the city, and the Roman army (under Titus this time) arrived for the second time in the spring of AD 70, just after Passover week had begun. Simon's army "fell on the mountains of Israel", just like Gog's army was going to do when it was defeated.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

This has been ongoing fulfillment over the years.

if we were to look back in time to perhaps when an unprecedented event happened, the first world war .Jesus said there would be war ''For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.'' that first war started in 1914 and as far as you are concerned its a so what event ?? it was never said how long his presents would be before Armageddon would happen .
the separating work continues until the beast has removed the harlot from its back. that event will be marked by the removal of religion . God could give a rip about false religion going quietly into the night . yet when the peoples of the earth see that there is still a people holding on to there faith ,refusing to worship the beast . then its more than God will allow .then Armageddon happens.
thus far it has been 111 years since the year 1914 and there are many saying where is this promised presents . its staring you right in the face .

 

[WPM]

You are absolutely correct here. The Armageddon site was only where the combatants were "gathered together". From that location, they were to "go up on the breadth of the earth" across the land of Israel, converging on the "beloved city" of Jerusalem where the battle actually was to take place.

But this already happened back in the AD 66-70 period. The plain of Megiddo was the staging ground where all the Roman troops and their auxiliary forces from other nations were gathered together after the Romans landed at Ptolemais on the coast. The Jewish Zealot forces of Simon bar Giora were also based very near this location at Nain, where Simon's huge army which eventually grew to 40,000 had its capital and stored their supplies. Both of these Roman and Zealot opposing forces made their way across the land of Israel, aiming for Jerusalem as the location where they would stage the battle for the city of Jerusalem. Simon arrived at Jerusalem in AD 69 and seized leadership control of the city, and the Roman army (under Titus this time) arrived for the second time in the spring of AD 70, just after Passover week had begun. Simon's army "fell on the mountains of Israel", just like Gog's army was going to do when it was defeated.

You are obsessed with Titus and AD70. You have nothing to say about Christ's future return and the introduction of the NHNE. Get out of the past and get your eyes on Jesus. You are like a broken record.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are obsessed with Titus and AD70. You have nothing to say about Christ's future return and the introduction of the NHNE. Get out of the past and get your eyes on Jesus. You are like a broken record.

I agree completely. It's sickening to see the obsession with 70 AD that these preterists have. It's very difficult to believe when people like him claim to be a partial preterist rather than a full preterist because he, and the rest of the supposed partial preterists here NEVER talk about the future glorious return of Jesus Christ and the eternal new heavens and new earth where we will dwell.