The Alexandria Christian School in Old Egypt And Amillennialism

[Spiritual Israelite]

Every unbeliever is "of your father the Devil".

= Jew or Gentile.

Hell makes no exemptions regarding unbelievers......It'll take a Jew, or a Gentile.

John 3:36 makes no exceptions.

Exactly, so why are you saying that the Jews are God's chosen people when you acknowledge yourself that all Jewish unbelievers have the devil as their father and end up in hell? God's chosen are believers, both Jew and Gentile.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sadly, their false pagan doctrines are still with us today. Amillennialism is one of them, as Christ's Apostles and earliest Church fathers were all Premill, which is what is actually written in God's Word.

More lies from the liar. You have nothing of substance to offer this forum. You are pathetic.

 

[Davy]

More lies from the liar. You have nothing of substance to offer this forum. You are pathetic.

You... are the liar, because you vainly attempt to hide... the fact that the 1st century Church fathers held to a Premill doctrine as written in God's Word. Gnosticism's theory of Amillennialism didn't even occur until the 2nd century A.D., along with when the Gnostics crept into the early Church of the 2nd century.


From the link below:

It is generally recognized within the scholarly world of early church historians that premillennialism was the most widely held view of the earliest church tradition. One of the leading experts on the doctrine of the early church is J. N. D. Kelly, who says, "millenarianism, or the theory that the returned Christ would reign on earth for a thousand years came to find increasing support among Christian teachers...This millenarian, or 'chiliastic' doctrine was widely popular at this time." (17) "The great theologians who followed the Apologists, lrenaeus, Tertullian and Hippolytus, were primarily concerned to defend the traditional eschatological scheme against Gnosticism," explains Kelly. "They are all exponents of millenarianism." (18)​

EARLY PREMILLENNIALISM

 

[Behold]

What is your excuse for your ignorance? There are ethnic Jews and religious Jews,

There are "spiritual Jews".

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

Paul is speaking in context of the church.
Paul certainly knows that Jews, were "chosen" before Jesus showed up.
Did you ever read the Old Testament?
Do you realize this yet, @Spiritual Israelite.

Listen, "context" matters when quoting verses.
Try to remember that...

 

[Behold]

God did not set the Jews aside.

Time of the Gentiles... here is what happened to the Jews...........for now.

""For if the casting away of them (Jews) be the reconciling of the world,(Gentiles) what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"

""""For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles, be come in."""""

Now in the Trib, when the 144,000 Jews will come forward., God has resumed His dealing with the JEW.
That is not now., as now we are in "the Time of the Gentiles".

 

[Davy]

The "house of Israel" is speaking about Jews.

Not after 1 Kings 11 & 1 Kings 12 when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms; the Jews were NOT known as the "house of Israel", not ever really. The ten northern tribes of Israel are the only ones the "house of Israel" applied to after the split. Anyone who can READ 1 Kings 11 thru 2 Kings 17 can EASILY see that, as kings of both kingdoms are often mentioned in the same verse in those Scriptures of that time.

You are going directly against God's written Word and history by saying the above.


Per the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), the title of JEW came from the name of the tribe of JUDAH, and is the name which those who went captive to Babylon and returned afterwards to Jerusalem used for themselves, and the strangers also that were among them...

7. Now when he was come to Babylon, and had taken with him many of his countrymen, who voluntarily followed him, he came to Jerusalem in the twenty and fifth year of the reign of Xerxes. And when he had shown the epistles to God 13 he gave them to Adeus, and to the other governors. He also called together all the people to Jerusalem, and stood in the midst of the temple, and made the following speech to them: "You know, O Jews, that God hath kept our fathers, Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in mind continually, and for the sake of their righteousness hath not left off the care of you. Indeed he hath assisted me in gaining this authority of the king to raise up our wall, and finish what is wanting of the temple. I desire you, therefore who well know the ill-will our neighboring nations bear to us, and that when once they are made sensible that we are in earnest about building, they will come upon us, and contrive many ways of obstructing our works, that you will, in the first place, put your trust in God, as in him that will assist us against their hatred, and to intermit building neither night nor day, but to use all diligence, and to hasten on the work, now we have this especial opportunity for it." When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities, as every one's ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. So the Jews prepared for the work: that is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon, which is taken from the tribe of Judah, which came first to these places, and thence both they and the country gained that appellation. ​

https://gutenberg.org/files/2848/2848-h/2848-h.htm#link112HCH0001

By the time Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, destroyed Jerusalem and Solomon temple, and removed the southern "kingdom of Judah" from Jerusalem-Judea to Babylon in captivity, the northern ten tribes of Israel had ALREADY been removed out of the holy land about 120 years prior. The "kingdom of Judah", ALSO CALLED the "house of Judah" in GOD'S WORD, was made up of only 3 tribes of Israel; the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.

Thus you are telling a LIE against what is written in The Bible Old Testament history.

This is why Jesus made no distinction between them, when He was here.

Jesus did... make a distinction when He said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel". That specifically meant the TEN LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL that had ALREADY BEEN SCATTERED OUT OF THE LAND BY THEN.

And it should be EASY... to grasp just who... Jesus was actually SENT to that WOULD BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. It was NOT the JEWS at His 1st coming for they crucified Him! The ten scattered tribes of the "house of Israel" were the ones that would RECEIVE The Gospel in NEW LANDS when scattered among the Gentiles.

 

[Davy]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Notice the deceivers that have come to this Thread are now trying to change the conversation away from the Thread's topic about the corrupt Alexandria text from the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt, and the Gnostic origin of 2nd century Amillennialism.

 

[PinSeeker]

True Jews, are Jews.

Ethnic Jews are not necessarily true Jews of God. Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.

Over 6.4 million of them now found in Israel, as the Bible prophecied that they would come back to their Land.

That's 'prophesied.' We disagree. The land that we will inherit is the earth, as Jesus said in Matthew 5.

They have., with more on the way there, in these end times.

There are still 'some to come,' so to speak, yes. In these end times, as you say, yes.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Notice the deceivers that have come to this Thread are now trying to change the conversation away from the Thread's topic about the corrupt Alexandria text from the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt, and the Gnostic origin of 2nd century Amillennialism.

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

Notice how this liar Davy made up this lie because he can't refute Amillennialism with scripture. Amillennialism originated in scripture, not in the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt, as this blatant liar is trying to claim.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Time of the Gentiles... here is what happened to the Jews...........for now.

""For if the casting away of them (Jews) be the reconciling of the world,(Gentiles) what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"

The Jews were not all cast away. How can you think that all Jews were cast away when Paul wrote this:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Do you just ignore this passage? God did not cast away all of the Jews because, as Paul pointed out, there was a remnant of believers in his day and has been ever since. Also, Paul pointed out how he hoped to lead some of those who were cast away (blinded) to salvation (Romans 11:11-14), so even the ones cast away were not cast away permanently with no chance of salvation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You... are the liar, because you vainly attempt to hide... the fact that the 1st century Church fathers held to a Premill doctrine as written in God's Word.

You lie by not pointing out how Justin Martyr said that there were many true Christians who disagreed with his view in his "Dialogue with Trypho". Also, as WPM has showed in detail, and as you have ignored, the early church Chiliasts did not share many of the same beliefs of modern day Premills, so it's deceptive for you to try to act otherwise. While they believed that the thousand years followed the return of Christ, they also believed that Satan was bound at the cross and believed that Christ began to reign after His resurrection, that sin and death would be removed from the earth when Christ returns and other things like that which are typical Amill beliefs.

Gnosticism's theory of Amillennialism didn't even occur until the 2nd century A.D., along with when the Gnostics crept into the early Church of the 2nd century.

Amillennialism originated in scripture. You try to say it originated in the 2nd century with allegorical beliefs of the Gnostics, but I showed how Amillennialism is based on clear, straightforward scriptures, not allegory, and you just completely ignore that.

 

[WPM]

You... are the liar, because you vainly attempt to hide... the fact that the 1st century Church fathers held to a Premill doctrine as written in God's Word. Gnosticism's theory of Amillennialism didn't even occur until the 2nd century A.D., along with when the Gnostics crept into the early Church of the 2nd century.


From the link below:

It is generally recognized within the scholarly world of early church historians that premillennialism was the most widely held view of the earliest church tradition. One of the leading experts on the doctrine of the early church is J. N. D. Kelly, who says, "millenarianism, or the theory that the returned Christ would reign on earth for a thousand years came to find increasing support among Christian teachers...This millenarian, or 'chiliastic' doctrine was widely popular at this time." (17) "The great theologians who followed the Apologists, lrenaeus, Tertullian and Hippolytus, were primarily concerned to defend the traditional eschatological scheme against Gnosticism," explains Kelly. "They are all exponents of millenarianism." (18)​

EARLY PREMILLENNIALISM

You are full of hogwash and avoidance.

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are full of hogwash and avoidance.

1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?

@Davy Stop being a lying coward and answer at least one or two of these questions. If you're going to make all these claims that you're making, then you need to back them up. What proof do you have that the ancient Chiliasts taught all the same things that modern day Premils like you believe? What proof do you have that Amillennialism wasn't taught in the early church from the beginning? Do you think Justin Martyr was just making it up when he said there were many true Christians who didn't agree with his Chiliast view?

 

[WPM]

You lie by not pointing out how Justin Martyr said that there were many true Christians who disagreed with his view in his "Dialogue with Trypho". Also, as WPM has showed in detail, and as you have ignored, the early church Chiliasts did not share many of the same beliefs of modern day Premills, so it's deceptive for you to try to act otherwise. While they believed that the thousand years followed the return of Christ, they also believed that Satan was bound at the cross and believed that Christ began to reign after His resurrection, that sin and death would be removed from the earth when Christ returns and other things like that which are typical Amill beliefs.


Amillennialism originated in scripture. You try to say it originated in the 2nd century with allegorical beliefs of the Gnostics, but I showed how Amillennialism is based on clear, straightforward scriptures, not allegory, and you just completely ignore that.

The reader can see how each post he presents is bereft of any study or evidence. It is all noise. All he has is to falsely accuse. That is who he is and that is what he does.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The reader can see how each post he presents is bereft of any study or evidence. It is all noise. All he has is to falsely accuse. That is who he is and that is what he does.

He knows he failed miserably whenever he attempted to refute Amillennialism with scripture, so he has resorted to lying about the origin of Amillennialism instead. He is desperate.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Then definitely avoid the NIV, as its not just a very liberal translation, its among the worst Translations ever created.

It isn't liberal--it's just designed to communicate in the common vernacular, as opposed to word for word. It's not unlike most any other version to me. I'm interested in readability. I can study online at any time.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I do not question that the Gnostic material was destroyed. There is strong historic evidence that supports that. But where is your evidence that the Chiliast material was burnt by the early Church (Amils)? I've never read that.

I read it, if I recall correctly, and I just assumed it was true, since Amils seemed to hate Chiliasm. Since heretical works were destoroyed, such as Gnostic works, I don't see why I would even question that Amils would destroy the works of Chiliasm, which they sometimes considered heretical?

Certainly not all the works of Chiliasts were destroyed. Those early Church Fathers renowned for being in that camp we still can read. It may be difficult to know what works were destroyed many, many centuries ago.

I would have to do a search. But I'm less interested in proving the point than you are proving that it didn't happen. Sorry, if I find it I'll let you know.

 

[Behold]

It isn't liberal--it's just designed to communicate in the common vernacular,

Every "new bible" for the past 40 yrs is marketed (hyped) as "easier to read, clearer,"
So that is just a shell game game to get this from you. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

The issue is, they are not clearer, and instead they are doctrinally changed, they are missing verses, and contextual words are removed, and literally have become the end product of a liberal or even carnal belief system.
The NIV is the worst of the "new" versions, tho its not really new at this point, as its been around for a while.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Every "new bible" for the past 40 yrs is marketed (hyped) as "easier to read, clearer,"
So that is just a shell game game to get this from you. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Way, way, way too cynical for me!!!!!!! Not everything that requires money is evil. Money is necessary to produce most anything. And Paul was happy that Christ was preached, regardless of the motive. Questioning someone's motives, particularly in getting out the word of God, is not something I'm interested in doing.

The issue is, they are not clearer, and instead they are doctrinally changed, they are missing verses, and contextual words are removed, and literally have become the end product of a liberal or even carnal belief system.

I've not found that to be the case. I've been a Christian every day of my life, and have read a lot of Bibles. I started reading the NIV when the NT version arrived in a nearby store back in the 70s. It never changed my doctrine with the exception that I didn't like a NT passage that suggested the Kingdom is advancing "forcefully." The passage should've read, in my opinion, "the Kingdom suffers violence."

This is small potatoes to me. Translators disagree sometimes, but they are to be praised for their difficult studies in language and Bible doctrine, etc. I don't think any version is perfect--not even the original one. Not even the authors of Scripture were perfect. But the truths they intended to convey were reliable and authoritative. God can use imperfect people to get HIs truth out.

I'm not looking for a perfect version--just a reliable one. And it is helpful to understand things properly when contemporary English is used, with respect to modern English speakers.

It is also inviting error to use outdated English which we don't use anymore. We can easily get the wrong idea about what is being stated. Word for word translations therefore are as subject to problems as modern versions that take liberties to commmunicate.

The NIV is the worst of the "new" versions, tho its not really new at this point, as its been around for a while.

If the English is changing, I would encourage newer versions that communicate better. Older English invites misunderstanding.

But for study purposes I think something closer to word for word is less subject to misunderstanding and error for the serious student. I personally use, for the NT, Greek-English parallel readings, tied to my NIV Bible. I also have Concordances that tie both OT and NT words to my NIV Bible.

There are plenty of reference works for students tied to the KJV online. I think they are all good.

 

[Behold]

Way, way, way too cynical for me!!!!!!! Not everything that requires money is evil.

There are at least 450 "english bibles". (Versions + Translations).
Often there is a "newer" version of the previously new version. "On Sale".

Its a money grab.

If the English is changing,

The "con job" is....>"we've created a newer version that is created with today's english, and 2 yrs from now, just in time for Christmas, we'll update it". "Think stocking stuffer"...

= Only in it for the money.