Elijah shall come before Christ?

[ScottA]

If the spirit and power of Elijah is in John, is it referring to the 'characteristic', 'zeal' and 'anointing' of Elijah is in John?

The confusion is because Jesus did not lie--regarding two completely different settings and contexts. Nor did John.

You gave a logical comparison of "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"--and this matter is very much like that.

Consider, that just as man was created in the "image" of God, and Jesus was the image of the Father--all is made manifest in this way. With regard to Elijah and John the Baptist, Elijah was an image of the resurrected Christ, as he ascended seemingly without dying ("though he may die, he shall live" John 11:25); and John was not Elijah, but was the "image" of Elijah, confirming the prophecy.

 

[Muna]

Friends, David Lamb's scripture quote is very clear, where Jesus Himself declared that John the Baptist is Elijah who is to come.

Luke 1:
17. And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

And John the Baptist did answer the scribes and Pharisees that He is not Elijah.

If the spirit and power of Elijah is in John, is it referring to the 'characteristic', 'zeal' and 'anointing' of Elijah is in John?

Because 'Elijah' in the Old Testament did turn the hearts of Israel back to GOD.

And the same John the Baptist is going to turn the hearts of Israel back to GOD in the New Testament.

While John himself be John the Baptist on the other hand, therefore as figuratively speaking, if you've seen 'John', you've seen 'Elijah'.

Similar to Philip with Jesus, saying. 'Lord, show us the FATHER already', and Jesus answering, 'You've been with Me all this while, if you've seen Me, you've seen the FATHER'?

Friends, does this make sense?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

I have no argument with Jesus words on John I agree with David Lamb

Elijah the Tishbite and John the baptist shopped at the same store

2Kings 1:7 And he said unto them,
What manner of man was he which came up to meet you, and told you these words?

2Kings 1:8 And they answered him,
He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

Of John (the Elijah who was for to come)

Mark 1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Luke 7:24 And, he Jesus began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Luke 7:25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.

Luke 7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.

Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The prophet of the highest

Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Luke 1:16 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

[Fred J]

Hi Fred,

Before they pounce on you...this passage and Jesus' question is often misunderstood--it stumped the Priests of Israel!

But the answer is, Solomon was the son of David's flesh, building a temple and a house for God of stone. But David was also blessed by God and promised a Son whose kingdom would never end--meaning, of the Spirit--as Peter confirmed, saying, "Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion, A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.” --Jesus is David's son by the spirit and promise of God.

The 'Word' takes on 'flesh', wherefore only the 'flesh' by birth is David's son, as to prophetically come to pass.

But the 'Word' is the Lord from Heaven, and that's why He responded truthfully according to Mark 12: 37.

Why Jesus had to refute the mind of men going on about, He's the son of David?

When plainly He could have confessed, He's the son of David and the Son of GOD, or just kept quiet?

Study the scripture in context and not stick to specific quotes out of context immaturely, thank you

 

[Fred J]

The confusion is because Jesus did not lie--regarding two completely different settings and contexts. Nor did John.

You gave a logical comparison of "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"--and this matter is very much like that.

Consider, that just as man was created in the "image" of God, and Jesus was the image of the Father--all is made manifest in this way. With regard to Elijah and John the Baptist, Elijah was an image of the resurrected Christ, as he ascended seemingly without dying ("though he may die, he shall live" John 11:25); and John was not Elijah, but was the "image" of Elijah, confirming the prophecy.

Mind you, the comparison between John and Elijah, and Jesus and FATHER are completely different according to the context of the scripture.

John the Baptist answered himself that he is not Elijah, meaning, he's not.

But Jesus answered, 'I and the FATHER are one.' 'If you've seen Me, you've seen the FATHER.' 'The image of the invisible GOD.'

Please don't go ahead of yourself and the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets in context we've been built on.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Muna]

Notice who wanted John to give a record of himself below

John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

John 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

John 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not.

Ofcourse not, his name is John

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias

Then they ask,

Art thou THAT prophet?

John answers

And he answered, No. (But this belongs to Jesus shown us in John 6:14, Acts 7:37)

John 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

And John just responds with

John 1:23 He said, I am (( the voice of one )) crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Isaiah 40:3)

Next verse

John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.

The asking John to say something about himself respond to Jesus this way

John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

 

[Muna]

Anyone notice there are three they refer to here?

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

 

[ScottA]

The 'Word' takes on 'flesh', wherefore only the 'flesh' by birth is David's son, as to prophetically come to pass.

But the 'Word' is the Lord from Heaven, and that's why He responded truthfully according to Mark 12: 37.

Why Jesus had to refute the mind of men going on about, He's the son of David?

When plainly He could have confessed, He's the son of David and the Son of GOD, or just kept quiet?

Study the scripture in context and not stick to specific quotes out of context immaturely, thank you

I wasn't suggesting or giving my opinion.

Jesus was eluding to the scriptures and what was prophesied that going forward would be fulfilled spiritually--as He said, "surely the kingdom of God has come upon you."--God whom is spirit.

In this same way--by asking a question--He also asked Peter, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”--which also was not a matter of "flesh and blood."

 

[ScottA]

Mind you, the comparison between John and Elijah, and Jesus and FATHER are completely different according to the context of the scripture.

John the Baptist answered himself that he is not Elijah, meaning, he's not.

But Jesus answered, 'I and the FATHER are one.' 'If you've seen Me, you've seen the FATHER.' 'The image of the invisible GOD.'

Please don't go ahead of yourself and the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets in context we've been built on.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Indeed, I press on--because many do not understand--which is given to me to do so.

You apparently also do not understand. You made a comparison. Great. But I did not mean that you should take them in the same context in everyway, but rather that you might be able to rationalize what is also true regarding Elijah and John the Baptist--that the answer is rather spiritual, in both cases...which I explained. Meaning, it was correct that, in the flesh, John should deny He was Elijah, but also correct that Jesus said He was--for the words He spoke were spirit...and not regarding flesh and blood.

 

[Fred J]

Anyone notice there are three they refer to here?

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

Yes, because they're leaders, teachers and lawyers of Israel who know the Old Testament scripture.

Scripturally, 'these' are the prophesied 'individuals' the leaders and Israel are waiting for.

Scripturally, the 'Messiah' is to come, and before the Messiah, Elijah is to come, and that Prophet mentioned by Moses is to come.

Therefore with knowledge the leaders or through their servants, they've approached John and Jesus.

 

[Zao is life]

Quit being and reacting like a 'kid'.

Mark 12:
35. And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the Temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36. For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I makethine enemies thy footstool.
37. David therefore himself calleth Him Lord, and whence is He then his son? And the common people heard Him galdly.
38. And He said unto them in His doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces.

Looks like i have to beware of you, no thank you.

Will David meet Jesus and say, 'You are my son and I am your father'?

You're right. Jesus cannot be the root and the offspring of David, and David would not have called Him Lord if He were the son of David only in the sense of being a descendant through His mother.

Jesus is the son of David by way of His office, and in a spiritual sense:

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star. Revelation 22:16

David was a type. An example of He was to come (just like the earthly tabernacle was).

Christ is the real deal.

It's @JohnDB who needs to read a lot more scripture, because he clearly doesn't fully understand the parts that he has read.

 

[Zao is life]

The confusion is because Jesus did not lie--regarding two completely different settings and contexts. Nor did John.

You gave a logical comparison of "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"--and this matter is very much like that.

Consider, that just as man was created in the "image" of God, and Jesus was the image of the Father--all is made manifest in this way. With regard to Elijah and John the Baptist, Elijah was an image of the resurrected Christ, as he ascended seemingly without dying ("though he may die, he shall live" John 11:25); and John was not Elijah, but was the "image" of Elijah, confirming the prophecy.

"If you have seen Me you have seen the Father" It's not the same as John the Baptist coming in the same spirit (prophetic zeal) and (God-given) power of someone else.

Jesus IS the Word of God in Whom is life, which existed with the Father from eternity and became flesh.

Elijah did not become John the Baptist.

Nor was Elijah's ascension "the" "image" of Christ's ascension as you blasphemously assert because Elijah was taken up by God but Christ is He who first descended and then ascended - after dying and rising again from he dead, Who ever lives to intercede on our behalf before the Father.

Your arguments are full of corruptions of the revealed Word of God, and your assertions about yourself are based on your own blasphemous corruptions of the revealed Word of God.​

 

[Fred J]

You're right. Jesus cannot be the root and the offspring of David, and David would not have called Him Lord if He were the son of David only in the sense of being a descendant through His mother.

Jesus is the son of David by way of His office, and in a spiritual sense:

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star. Revelation 22:16

It's @JohnDB who needs to read a lot more scripture, because he clearly doesn't fully understand the parts that he has read.

i believe Jesus is trying to make a point to men and believers, not fixate one's understanding 'shortsightedly'.

He is 'the Word' and 'the Lord from Heaven', who took on 'flesh'. (John 1:14)

By the 'flesh' Jesus is 'the Root' and 'the offspring of David', and by the 'spirit' He is the 'Lord God from Heaven' and the 'Son of GOD'.

Thank you and GOD bless in Jesus name.

 

[JohnDB]

Quit being and reacting like a 'kid'.

Mark 12:
35. And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the Temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36. For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I makethine enemies thy footstool.
37. David therefore himself calleth Him Lord, and whence is He then his son? And the common people heard Him galdly.
38. And He said unto them in His doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces.

Looks like i have to beware of you, no thank you.

Will David meet Jesus and say, 'You are my son and I am your father'?

Now who is really acting childish?

 

[JohnDB]

You're right. Jesus cannot be the root and the offspring of David, and David would not have called Him Lord if He were the son of David only in the sense of being a descendant through His mother.

Jesus is the son of David by way of His office, and in a spiritual sense:

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star. Revelation 22:16

David was the type. The example. (Just like the earthly tabernacle was). Christ is the real deal.

It's @JohnDB who needs to read a lot more scripture, because he clearly doesn't fully understand the parts that he has read.

Uhhhhh.....no.

While you fumble around and understand nothing....some of us are quite content and secure in our years of hard core study. (Study not involving the worst commentaries as you have seemed to have used)

I've gone to the original language....which is tough because John uses early Latin and the action actually happened in a blend of Hebrew aramaic. (The septuagint knowledge is needed as John uses it as a translation guide) Then on top you have to be familiar with midrash, sifre and the customs.
Then you have to understand the poetry Jesus was speaking to explain himself just to confound the Jews even more.

Yeah, I can see why you two flat out cant get it.

Here's a clue for you.....start at Galatians 3:16

 

[ScottA]

Elijah did not become John the Baptist.

I said that, but apparently you do not listen or hear, but are full of emotional accusations. Paul clearly stated that the image of things now seen, we see "dimly"--but I explain what "dimly" looks like with regard to current matters and how it works, confirming what he said by the same Spirit--and you erupt with accusations of blaspheme.

Such responses are not unlike that of Israel who crucified Christ. But I tell you--because these are the times of the Holy Spirit's coming--you shall not fare as well as they. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus is the son of David by way of His office, and in a spiritual sense:

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star. Revelation 22:16

David was the type. The example. (Just like the earthly tabernacle was). Christ is the real deal.

It's @JohnDB who needs to read a lot more scripture, because he clearly doesn't fully understand the parts that he has read.

This is true...and should tell you what is also true of John the Baptist, though the images are not but given dimly.

 

[Zao is life]

Uhhhhh.....no.

While you fumble around and understand nothing....some of us are quite content and secure in our years of hard core study. (Study not involving the worst commentaries as you have seemed to have used)

I've gone to the original language....which is tough because John uses early Latin and the action actually happened in a blend of Hebrew aramaic. (The septuagint knowledge is needed as John uses it as a translation guide) Then on top you have to be familiar with midrash, sifre and the customs.
Then you have to understand the poetry Jesus was speaking to explain himself just to confound the Jews even more.

Yeah, I can see why you two flat out cant get it.

Here's a clue for you.....start at Galatians 3:16

LoL. Your self-assurance is your downfall, as it always is in the case of those who misinterpret things on top of making false claims like what John wrote was written first in Latin.

And you do not understand midrash because you look at it through a Greek lens.

John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah and said "I am not Elijah".

If you understood anything you boast about (such as midrash) you would understand that Jesus was referring to the prophecy and not the actual person when He said John the Baptist is Elijah who was to come - immediately after stating that Elijah shall come first and shall restore all things.

You do not even understand while you fumble around that if the prophecy was referring only to John the Baptist then the Day of the LORD Malachi wrote about has already occurred - not only in terms of the Messiah's first advent, but in the case of His return also. Malachi wrote that Elijah shall come before the coming of both the Messiah and the Day of the LORD.

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

When the prophecy is fulfilled again you'll say it's John the Baptist reincarnated because you think he prophesied before the Day of the LORD.

It has nothing to do with the straw you resorted to grasping at attempting to create a red herring - Galatians 3:16 - but it has everything to do with the coming of Christ and the Day of the LORD.

Are you a Preterist? That will explain your responses.

 

[Davy]

Mark 12: 37

You are not understanding what Jesus said there. Lord Jesus NEVER denied that He was the son of David, especially in the below Scripture...

Mark 12:35-37
35 And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, "How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?

36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'

37 David therefore himself calleth Him Lord; and whence is He then his son?" And the common people heard him gladly."
KJV

Christ's main Message in the above, to those Jewish leaders in the temple, is that David called Jesus "Lord" via The Holy Spirit prophesying through David. And that even though Jesus' flesh body was born through the lineage of David (through David's son Nathan, which can easily be verified in Luke 3 through Mary's lineage which was Jesus' lineage).

Another Bible version of Jesus' question is in Matthew 22...

Matt 22:41-46
41 While the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, "What think ye of Christ? whose son is He?" They say to Him, "The son of David."

43 He saith to them, "How then doth David in spirit call Him Lord, saying,

44 The LORD said to my Lord, Sit Thou on My right hand, till I make Thy enemies Thy footstool?

45 If David then calleth Him Lord, how is He his son?"

46 And no man was able to answer Him a word, neither durst any man, from that day forth, ask Him any more questions.
Webster

Lord Jesus' question in verse 45 to those Pharisees created a conundrum in their minds, because they rejected Jesus as God The Son, so they were not able to put 2 + 2 together, that Jesus' Spirit = God, but Jesus' flesh = via Mary's womb, Jesus being born through the flesh lineage of David.

 

[Davy]

Here for the house of Israel:

Deuteronomy 30:19​

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live​

Don't be naive. The above is God offering Israel a CHOICE. It does not mean both are applied together.

Here for the Church:

Matthew 16:17​

Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.​

Now that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the previous Deuteronomy verse.

In Deuteronomy 28, God warned Israel what He would do to them IF... they fell into idol worship against Him. God gave a list of curses if they made that false worship CHOICE to not obey Him. But IF they instead obeyed Him, God then gave a list of Blessings they would receive for staying in Him.

So it is Israel's CHOICE that decided what they would received, God's Blessings, or God's curses, not both.

 

[JohnDB]

LoL. Your self-assurance is your downfall, as it always is in the case of those who misinterpret things on top of making false claims like what John wrote was written first in Latin.

And you do not understand midrash because you look at it through a Greek lens.

John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah and said "I am not Elijah".

If you understood anything you boast about (such as midrash) you would understand that Jesus was referring to the prophecy and not the actual person when He said John the Baptist is Elijah who was to come - immediately after stating that Elijah shall come first and shall restore all things.

You do not even understand while you fumble around that if the prophecy was referring only to John the Baptist then the Day of the LORD Malachi wrote about has already occurred - not only in terms of the Messiah's first advent, but in the case of His return also. Malachi wrote that Elijah shall come before the coming of both the Messiah and the Day of the LORD.

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

When the prophecy is fulfilled again you'll say it's John the Baptist reincarnated because you think he prophesied before the Day of the LORD.

It has nothing to do with the straw you resorted to grasping at attempting to create a red herring - Galatians 3:16 - but it has everything to do with the coming of Christ and the Day of the LORD.

Are you a Preterist? That will explain your responses.

You are a universalist....something much much worse.
And as far as having an eschatology view....
I do not and have never given ANY viewpoint, never promoted one, or really discussed much about future prophesies whatsoever.

I have very valid reasons....ones you will never understand.