Standing… Survey… YES or NO………………?ONCE SAV-ED…SAV-ED FOREVER [OSAS)?

[GodsGrace]

You are teaching a very old heresy, that says that "enduring to the end" is how you save yourself.
So, that is not the case.
That is actually a teaching that Jesus gave in Matt 24, talking about the Tribulation, and those who end up there.
So, if you end up in the Trib, then prepare to endure to the end of it, if you want to go to heaven @Sabé

Whereas......SALVATION is : Jesus on The Cross.......sacrificing Himself to God for your sin, so that you can become eternally forgiven and given eternal life, today, and forever.

Maybe Matthew 24 can be debated.
Although ENDURE TO THE END means to the end of one's life and during and after tribulation.
Jesus states that many will fall away.
For whatever reason...it is possible to fall away.

However, THIS scripture cannot be rejected as meaning that a believer must endure to the end:

Hebrews 3.12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so * that none * of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

(the end of our life).

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem with that view, is the Bible doesn't support it at all. You have taken all of the scriptures which use words like "us" "we" "all" "whosoever" "world", out of their intended context and applied the unbiblical "free choice" doctrine to them.

Lets consider who those scriptures were spoken to, they were never spoken to unbelievers and they were always spoken to the "Jews" "the chosen people", who believed that they were the only ones God chose to save.

They need to be told and reminded over and over again that Jesus came to save "whosoever believed" not just the Jews. They needed to hear that Gods elect are in the "whole world", not just Israel. They need to hear that Jesus came to save "all" kinds of people, not just Jews.

They need to hear that Gods elect would come from every tribe and tongue from every corner of the world, not just the Jews. When John 3:16 mentions the "whosoever", it's not saying all men without exception, as the "free choice" camp claims.

Why did Jesus say, in John 17:9, "I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours."

If Jesus came to die for everyone, without exception as you suggest. Why doesn't He pray for everyone, without exception. Why does He only pray for those His Father gave Him (the elect).

I'm sure Jesus would be aware of the fact that His Father chose the elect, before the world was created. So Jesus knows that God never chose to save everyone without exception.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Matthew 1:21
She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

These are just a few verses, which the "free choice" doctrine cannot be applied to. I don't see how you can justify holding to that Arminian theology when so many scriptures confirm that God is the One who chose His people before time began. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that anyone else's name was added after God created the world.

Every last person whom God chose to save, before He laid the foundations of the earth are in the Lambs book of life. The book was closed and no man can force Gods hand to add their name.

A name can be blotted out of the Book Of Life:

Revelation 3:5
5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

The one who conquers will not be blotted out....
The one who does not conquer will.


Revelation 20:12
12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

Names were in the Book of Life....but the persons would be judged by what they HAD DONE.


Psalm 69:28
28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous.

Again, it's possible to have a name removed from the Book of the Living....
the book that enrolls the RIGHTEOUS.


Exodus 32:31-33
31 Then Moses returned to the LORD, and said, "Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves.
32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin -and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever * has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem with that view, is the Bible doesn't support it at all. You have taken all of the scriptures which use words like "us" "we" "all" "whosoever" "world", out of their intended context and applied the unbiblical "free choice" doctrine to them.

Lets consider who those scriptures were spoken to, they were never spoken to unbelievers and they were always spoken to the "Jews" "the chosen people", who believed that they were the only ones God chose to save.

They need to be told and reminded over and over again that Jesus came to save "whosoever believed" not just the Jews. They needed to hear that Gods elect are in the "whole world", not just Israel. They need to hear that Jesus came to save "all" kinds of people, not just Jews.

They need to hear that Gods elect would come from every tribe and tongue from every corner of the world, not just the Jews. When John 3:16 mentions the "whosoever", it's not saying all men without exception, as the "free choice" camp claims.

Why did Jesus say, in John 17:9, "I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours."

If Jesus came to die for everyone, without exception as you suggest. Why doesn't He pray for everyone, without exception. Why does He only pray for those His Father gave Him (the elect).

I'm sure Jesus would be aware of the fact that His Father chose the elect, before the world was created. So Jesus knows that God never chose to save everyone without exception.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Matthew 1:21
She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

These are just a few verses, which the "free choice" doctrine cannot be applied to. I don't see how you can justify holding to that Arminian theology when so many scriptures confirm that God is the One who chose His people before time began. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that anyone else's name was added after God created the world.

Every last person whom God chose to save, before He laid the foundations of the earth are in the Lambs book of life. The book was closed and no man can force Gods hand to add their name.

None of the verses you've posted have anything to do with predestinating persons to either heaven or hell.

To say nothing of the fact that this would make God a very UNJUST God....
and we know from the bible that God is Just.

 

[Taken]

Persevering to the end is obeying God and overcoming tribulation to the end of your life on earth, and the reward is reaching eternal life in Heaven (Matt. 24:13). By Jesus saying this He is also saying that he who does not do this will reach eternal life in Hell.

Stop. You have Never been authorized to Speak For me.
No one has Appointed you to Over-Ride Gods Word that Applies to me.

You're not at the end yet because you're still living on earth,

What do you think Crucified with Christ means?

What do you think Old man is Dead means?

What do you think IN Christ means?

What do you think the Baptism of the Lamb of God means?

I no longer Live in my natural flesh…
I live IN Christs Living, Risen Body….
Ding, ding ding… IN Christ!

Rom 6:
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 Cor 5:
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal.6

[15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

and you can't foresee if you will persevere in obeying God or not to the end.

Your Carnal Understanding Fails you.

The Lord God IS Spirit…
His Word IS True…
His Works Accomplished IN me IS Spiritual, Lasting. Eternal.

It has Nothing to do with Natural eyesight or your wondering if A man With Gods Spirit / Gods Power in a man Will Ever Fail Being Faithful and True to God.
Failure not possible.

You are attempting to Argue and Debate Spiritual Understanding with your Carnal Understanding…

FYI..
Rom 8:

[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Therefore, you can't know before then if you have reached or will reach eternal life in Heaven or Hell.

Therefore…you error.

 

[Taken]

I'm doing no such things.

Uh ya you are.
And Again you repeat yourself.

You're not at the end yet because you're still living on earth, and you can't foresee yourself persevering in obeying God and overcoming tribulation or not to the end. Therefore, you can't know before the end if you have reached or will reach eternal life in Heaven or Hell. Like with everyone else, all you can do is try and hope to perservere in obeying God and overcoming tribulations until your mortal death and thus reach eternal life in Heaven.

Again, you trying to speak for me saying what I can and can’t do.

Fact IS… you Can Not Believe, Be Sure, “Know”, Trust the Lord, If you are Saved…
“until you SEE”.

Fact IS… You are LIKE “Thomas”…
“Waiting to See…IFJesus rose up.”
“Waiting to See …IF you are saved.”

Jesus also said this:
John 20:
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

None of those verses contradict Matt. 24:13, because none of them say that one learns that they're saved or not before the end [mortal death].

No Kidding.
Scripture does not contradict Scripture.

Scripture REVEALS the Circumstance and Consequence For What Individuals Believe.

You Believe… you have to wait and hope to SEE IF the Lords Gift of Salvation “really worked”…or Not.

So…Wait and See (like Thomas).
That’s your own prerogative TO DOUBT.

Don’t flip through Scriptures and think YOU are Qualified to Pick and Choose which Scriptures Apply to me.

I Am quite capable of Applying the Correct Scriptures to me.

My body was Crucified with Christ Jesus.
Don’t care, If you believe that OR can SEE that.
It Matters IF I believe it, and I do.
And my consequence…for Believing without SEEING is to be “blessed”.

In contrast, What is your consequence, not believing you are Saved… until you SEE for yourself?
Looks Like “you miss out on a blessing”.

And Now…perhaps you are not saved…perhaps you will (continue) to Preach “Your Doubt” in Trusting the Lords Gift of Salvation…(“because Jesus warned…some people Would Doubt”… have to hope, wait and See…”)

Curious… Do you think, you preaching “you doubt”… is Glorifying to the Lord?

I don’t.
So stop trying to “include me”, “gaslight me”…with Your doubts.

 

[Taken]

I don't deny saying that you can't forsee yourself perserving or not to the end, because you don't have the ability of foreknowledge, which means knowing the future.

I also don't deny saying that what you can do is try each day to be obedient to God and overcome tribulations, with His help, and hope that you persevere doing so to the end. (Matt. 24:13)

What I do deny is your assertion that I'm speaking for you and overriding God's Word. Jesus, not me, is the one Who said that he who perseveres [in obedience to God and overcoming tribulations] to the end [mortal death] will be saved [reach eternal life in Heaven], and thus He was also saying that he who doesn't persevere to the end will not be saved (Matt. 24:13). I'm not doubting that He said that. Why are you saying that one can be saved before the end when Jesus actually said that one will be saved if they persevere "to the end"?

Because … all scripture IS True.
However…. ALL Scripture does”NOT” apply to Every person.

The Passage you keep quoting, repeating, IS True… but Does NOT Apply to me.

That passage Applies TO:
Any person who believes IN God.
Any person who believes IN Jesus.
…at the moment of their mortal Death.
Jesus is Assuring “Any such person”;
They, at that moment of mortal death…
“Shall be Saved”.
That passage, is encouragement, hope for that Individual.

Why that does NOT apply to me, IS Because:
God, through His Word Jesus, Offered “an other choice”, IF an individual Freely elected to Choose “the other Option” and “IF” the individual “Fulfilled the Requirement to Receive the “other Option”.

Belief…
Yes.
Repentance…for having had not believed…
Yes
Willingness to call on the Lord Jesus…
Yes.
Willingness…by Word and Consent to Say and to Give one’s own body unto Death…
to Receive Gods Offering…
Yes
Understanding…You will be Forgiven…
Yes
Understanding…You will never AGAIN be Able to Doubt, Reject, Not Believe.
Yes.
Gods Spirit will remain IN you for the Rest of your Natural Life, Keeping you Faithful, by Gods Spirit (Gods Power)…
Yes.
Understanding…your body will Be:
Accounted Dead…
Yes
You will receive the Spirit of God IN You
Yes
Gods Spirit shall Circumcise your Heart…
Yes
Gods Spirit shall restore / Save your Soul…
Yes
Gods Spirit shall give you a New Seed in you heart.
Yes
That Seed shall “Re-birth” the mans spirit…
Yes
That man shall “live IN Christ Jesus’” risen Body, until …
he is mortally dead…
Or
he is risen up by The Lord (Rapture)…
Yes
Once Risen up by the Lord (Rapture)…
he receives his Own glorified body…
Yes.

(This Option is revealed in Scripture…
Occurs Before a mans Physical Death;
called by terms it Involves…such AS:)
Confessed Belief to the Lord…
Forgiven..
Covered…
Sanctified..
Set Apart..
Cleansed…
Justified..
Crucified with Christ..
Baptized by the Lamb of God…
With God Forever…
God With that Individual Forever…
With and IN Christ’s risen Body…
Saved..
Quickened..
Born Again..
Righteous..
Christs Church…
Christs Bride…
Prepared to speak on behalf of Gods Word…
Prepared to be claimed, Taken, Redeemed by the Lord When He Descends to the clouds and Summons Those “HE Saved and Quickened”.


If you do not Understand the Difference … that would be your problem of NOT knowing WHAT Scriptures Applies to WHOM and WHY.

You do NOT know WHAT and WHEN a man chooses his Beliefs, or to Confess his Belief, or IF his Beliefs are True or Not.

An individual can choose to have a one on one relationship with the Lord God… and the Lord God Has Offered and Provided a Way for men to Have a one on one Relationship WITH the Lord God.

What you think, believe, choose, do… has nothing to do with another man’s choices and doing.

So NO you are not qualified to decide which Scriptures do or do not Apply to an other man.

 

[Behold]

I don't deny saying that you can't foresee yourself persevering to the end

Christians dont have to preserve ourselves to the end.
We are already become a part of God's eternal Family.

 

[Behold]

Jesus didn't say, "He who is saved and perseveres to the end will be saved," nor did He say, "He who is unsaved and perseveres to the end will be saved", but rather "He who perseveres to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13)

"he who perserveres" to the end"..........of what?

A.) The Tribulation.........and no one born again today, will be found there.

The body of Christ does not go into the Tribulation.

 

[Taken]

Tribulations and trials take place while we are alive on earth. We overcome them through obedience to God with His help.

Not in debate.

Tribulations and trials end with our mortal death.

Regarding the Body…Yes.
Regarding the Soul….depends on IF that Soul is Saved or Not.

You, me, and others, haven't reached the end [mortal death] yet because we're still alive.

Mortal Death…Only Applies to the Body… because Mortal by definition means MUST / SHALL Die.

Understanding the Mortal Body…
A mortal Body Has LIFE.
The Life of the Mortal Body is called BLOOD.
God clearly revealed, HE requires the LIFE of Every mans BODY.

Gen 9:
[5a]And surely your blood of your lives will I require;
[5e]I require the life of man.

Reading Between the Lines;
Whose HAND Kills the Life God REQUIRES.
(beast, man, brother)


Gen 9:
[5b]at the hand of every beast will I require it,
[5c]and at the hand of man;
[5d]at the hand of every man's brother will

The HAND of man [5c]…
Who Gives “his own Bodily Life unto Death”…
IS: a Life, God Requires.

The Lord Jesus…Has Offered All men, an Option:
For man:
* TO: “Willingly Give his OWN bodily LIFE….Unto DEATH…”
* FOR: “CONFORMATION”…of the same man’s TESTIMONY (mans Word),
* TO: the Lord Jesus,
* OF: True Heartful (natural spirit of man) Belief,
* IN: God And Christ Jesus.

Any man, may offer you a loan, employment, a home, a plot of land, an animal, a coat, a meal, a whatever…
AND require “your word AND signature”…
AND verify “you are qualified to Receive” the Offering….Before you Receive the Offering.

The Lord God, Offers, Requires your Word and Bodily Life, AND verifies you are Qualified to Receive….Before you Receive the Offering.

You… argue and attempt to Debate, ignoring Facts.
Jesus IS the Word of God, and Represents HIS Father and Himself.
* The Father has Always Offered / Promised men, Salvation of their Soul…After bodily Death, IF that man Believed IN God, In Gods Word, while the man was bodily Alive.

^That Has NOT “changed”!!

An “additional” Offering was presented, declared to men, by, through, of Jesus;
Gods Word revealed ON Earth in the Likeness AS a man;
Teaching, Preaching, face to face with Earthly men.

The Offering…accepted, by, of, through…
A mans willingness to Heartfully Believe IN God, IN Christ Jesus…
A mans willingness to Declare by his word;
To Christ the Lord Jesus (his belief)…
The mans willingness to Declare by his Choice to Freely, Willingly Give his own Body unto Death…
Confirming his Testimony, his Word of Belief to the Lord.
And the Lord God, Verifying the mans Testimony IS True, Verifying the man IS QUALIFIED, Justified,…
To Receive The Lords OFFERING…
And The Lord God, Thus…
Gives that man, the Lords Offering…
And The Lord God, Thus…
Records in the Lambs Book of Life…
The Transaction that Just Transpired.

You are preaching…arguing, debating that which The Lord Offers…CAN NOT be Offered, Given, Received, Recorded, Accounted, Genuine, True, Known, Sure, Accomplished, Trusted, Valid,
“UNTIL” a human man CAN Experience AND SEE a mortally DEAD Body”

I totally disagree with you.
The Lord IS Spirit.
The Lords Offering IS Spiritual.
The man Acceptance IS via the mans Word and his signature the mans own body and by the mans own spirit.

A Spiritual Agreement, Offering, Acceptance, Receiving has Zero Requirement of A natural mans Mortally dead body or a natural man’s eye sight.

And ONCE a Spiritual Requirement and Agreement has been Accomplished Between a man and Christ the Lord Jesus.. No mans Hand ( or a mans false testimony) can separate that man from the Lord God or the Lord God from that man.

Only after mortal death will we learn if we persevered to the end [obeyed God and overcame tribulations and trials throughout our life on earth] or not, and thus reached eternal life in Heaven or not, just as Jesus said in Matt. 24:13.

If you ARE NOT saved by, through, of Christ…
Sure… your body will know know nothing, and your soul / spirit … in heaven or hell will be a quick acknowledgement if “God” saved your soul or not.

If you are Saved by, through of Christ Jesus…your Salvation is Accomplished Spiritually, before your bodily death.

If you are waiting to see…you have not received Your offering From Christ Jesus.

You are “waiting to see” if God shall save your soul….and “hoping” God will save your soul.

No issue for me.
No worry for me.
No wondering for me.
No effect on me.

 

[CJ_5253]

Compelling cases on this one by many. I cant reconcile OSAS with John 15. Jesus starts out by saying “every branch in Me that does not bare fruit He takes away”. Not branches on other trees or lying on the ground. Branches that are IN HIM. That part makes me consider my own salvation with a little bit more fear and trembling.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Yes, God's Eternal Salvation Is, well, Eternal, is It not?:

God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.

 

[Taken]

It applies to you,

No. Gaslighter.

Belief can occur before physical death, but you're supposed to show belief, or faith, through obedience:

Belief IS Obeying God!!
Faith IS a Gift from God.
Gods Gift of Salvation is FOR Believing!

IF a man believes(but does not Confess his Belief) God will Save him After his Body Dies,
IF the man continued Believing to the moment his Body Dies.
The Warning to persevere is For THAT man!

IF a man Believes CONFESSES his belief, he IS SAVED right THEN, by Christ Jesus, without mortally dying, but Spiritually bodily accounted Dead, soul saved, spirit born again, a new creature, prepared to be Raptured!
What do you think “crucified with Jesus means”?


Not Rocket Science.
Your have been told, Scripturally shown…
No one can Understand Spiritual things FOR You.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

save,,,, from,,,,,what ?

 

[Christian Soldier]

A name can be blotted out of the Book Of Life:

Revelation 3:5
5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

The one who conquers will not be blotted out....
The one who does not conquer will.


Revelation 20:12
12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

Names were in the Book of Life....but the persons would be judged by what they HAD DONE.


Psalm 69:28
28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous.

Again, it's possible to have a name removed from the Book of the Living....
the book that enrolls the RIGHTEOUS.


Exodus 32:31-33
31 Then Moses returned to the LORD, and said, "Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves.
32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin -and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever * has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

Wow, you theology is twisted like spaghetti. It's obvious you don't have a handle on the context of any of those verses you misapplied.
You failed to understand what the different "books" are for. You failed to consider the context of the book which Moses was referring to and you think it's the same book as the one in Revelation 20:12

I don't have the time to teach you here,, but sufficed to say there are more than one book and the books sever different purposes, so don't throw them in your spaghetti Bolognese, because they are not supposed to be consumed togeather.

Look up, the Lambs book of life and then look up what the book Moses mentioned in Exodus 32:32 and you will find they are different books. You will find that the book of the living contains the names of everyone God created, but the Lambs book of life only contain s the names of those the Father gave Him, you know the "ELECT", those who's names God wrote in His book, before He created the world. They are the only people who shall be saved, no other names can be added to this book and none of those names can ever be removed either.

Now if you think back to the time before the world was made, then you will remember that Jesus created the heavens and the earth and everything else that exists. That's why it's called the Lambs book of life. The Israelites (Gods chosen people) were under the old covenant, their names could be removed from Gods chosen people (national Israel).

 

[Taken]

save,,,, from,,,,,what ?

Eternal separation FROM God.

 

[Christian Soldier]

None of the verses you've posted have anything to do with predestinating persons to either heaven or hell.

To say nothing of the fact that this would make God a very UNJUST God....
and we know from the bible that God is Just.

It's highly blasphemous to suggest that God is unjust, because He didn't cast all of mankind into hell fire. That's what you're actually saying, because that's what we all deserve. So according to you, you should be cast into the lake of fire. You really don't now what your talking about.

(comment removed: caution) How can you miss simple verses which make it so plain that even dumb people can understand what they are saying, such as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

You can't be that blind to miss the ELEPHANT in the room. You say that none of the verse I listed have anything to do with "predestination" but there you have it in your face, but I doubt you have the capacity to be honest to admit anything true.

 

[Taken]

Jesus didn't say, "He who is saved and perseveres to the end will be saved," nor, "He who is unsaved and perseveres to the end will be saved", but rather, "He who perseveres to the end will be saved." (Matt. 24:13)



Belief in God can occur before physical death, and if it does, you're supposed to continue showing belief (faith) through obeying His commandments and overcoming trials/tribulations throughout your life until physical death. That is why Jesus said, "He who perseveres [obeys God and overcomes tribulations and trials throughout their life] to the end [physical death] will be saved [reach eternal life in Heaven]." (Matt. 24:13)

Seems you are “TRYING” to make the “Point”
1- That “preserver” means To Keep Obey-ing
God.

2- That; Jesus IS Preaching “TO and FOR” the:
SAVED AND unSAVED “TO”;
“keep” obeying God, “to the end of their mortal life”.

3- That IF, they (Saved and Un/Saved)…DO, (Obey) …they Shall, BE Saved…


Is that correct?

 

[GodsGrace]

Wow, you theology is twisted like spaghetti. It's obvious you don't have a handle on the context of any of those verses you misapplied.
You failed to understand what the different "books" are for. You failed to consider the context of the book which Moses was referring to and you think it's the same book as the one in Revelation 20:12

I don't have the time to teach you here,, but sufficed to say there are more than one book and the books sever different purposes, so don't throw them in your spaghetti Bolognese, because they are not supposed to be consumed togeather.

Look up, the Lambs book of life and then look up what the book Moses mentioned in Exodus 32:32 and you will find they are different books. You will find that the book of the living contains the names of everyone God created, but the Lambs book of life only contain s the names of those the Father gave Him, you know the "ELECT", those who's names God wrote in His book, before He created the world. They are the only people who shall be saved, no other names can be added to this book and none of those names can ever be removed either.

Now if you think back to the time before the world was made, then you will remember that Jesus created the heavens and the earth and everything else that exists. That's why it's called the Lambs book of life. The Israelites (Gods chosen people) were under the old covenant, their names could be removed from Gods chosen people (national Israel).

Christian Soldier,,,
If you are UNABLE to distinguish between the books,
or do not take the time to do so,,,
it means that you're not well versed in this topic.

The Book of Life is a list of all saved persons.

A name in the Book of Life can be blotted out.

Let's try again:

This is from the Book of Life---which YOU have stated is a list of the "elect".


Revelation 3:5
5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

Please note:
The one WHO CONQUERS will never be blotted out of the BOOK OF LIFE.

This means that a person can also be an unconquerer.....
and will be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Simple English.
No theology required.
No twisting required.


Revelation 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life;

Please note that the book opened was The Book of Life.

and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Please note that the dead were judged according to their deeds.
Just as Jesus teaches in
John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Truly incredible how the bible lines up with all its verses perfectly.


13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Please note that this is the 2nd time it has been stated that we will be judged by our deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

To be found in the Book of Life a person will have to be judged based on their deeds.
As per Rev 3:5, Rev 20:12-15 and John 5:28-29

Also, as per Rev 3:5 it is possible for a name to be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Of course you might not agree with this but it will require scripture since what you've written till now is just your opinion.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's highly blasphemous to suggest that God is unjust, because He didn't cast all of mankind into hell fire. That's what you're actually saying, because that's what we all deserve. So according to you, you should be cast into the lake of fire. You really don't now what your talking about.

Actually Christian Soldier,
it's rather blasphemous to believe that God created evil and predestinated all acts of mankind...
even sinful acts which makes God the author of sin.

Also, you seem to lack knowledge...
You seem to be unable to understand what JUSTICE means.
Could you give your definition of JUSTICE?

I doubt that you could.

You are either a liar, or your wilfully ignorant or you're straight out evil. How can you miss simple verses which make it so plain that even dumb people can understand what they are saying, such as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Insults will get you nowhere.
To say nothing of the fact that this is VERY unchristianly of you...
and we know we will be judged by our behavior....
it would be good to know what Jesus taught.

GOD FOREKNEW...
is foreknowledge causal?

Note what is predestined in Romans 8:29-30
What is predestined is that we will become conformed to the image of the Son.
Predestination is always to purpose or method..
NEVER to the salvation of single individuals.

God calls: I hope you know that TO CALL in biblical language means TO INVITE.
God invites....He does not predestinate anyone.

Those whom God calls He also justifies, if conditions are met...
just as the NT teaches with many verses.

And those whom God justified He also glorified.
Hmmm....seems like it might be speaking about saints that have gone on before....
but we won't get into that.

You can't be that blind to miss the ELEPHANT in the room. You say that none of the verse I listed have anything to do with "predestination" but there you have it in your face, but I doubt you have the capacity to be honest to admit anything true.

You could keep on insulting Christian Soldier...
this is common to the reformed/calvinist believers.

Perhaps YOU will have the capacity to reply with scripture instead of your opinion.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Christian Soldier,,,
If you are UNABLE to distinguish between the books,
or do not take the time to do so,,,
it means that you're not well versed in this topic.

The Book of Life is a list of all saved persons.

A name in the Book of Life can be blotted out.

Let's try again:

This is from the Book of Life---which YOU have stated is a list of the "elect".


Revelation 3:5
5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

Please note:
The one WHO CONQUERS will never be blotted out of the BOOK OF LIFE.

This means that a person can also be an unconquerer.....
and will be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Simple English.
No theology required.
No twisting required.


Revelation 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life;

Please note that the book opened was The Book of Life.

and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Please note that the dead were judged according to their deeds.
Just as Jesus teaches in
John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Truly incredible how the bible lines up with all its verses perfectly.


13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Please note that this is the 2nd time it has been stated that we will be judged by our deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

To be found in the Book of Life a person will have to be judged based on their deeds.
As per Rev 3:5, Rev 20:12-15 and John 5:28-29

Also, as per Rev 3:5 it is possible for a name to be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Of course you might not agree with this but it will require scripture since what you've written till now is just your opinion.

I don't have any opinions about what the scriptures teach. I don't get to impose my opinion over what God has said, He speaks for Himself and you haven't pointed out any errors in my understanding of the verses in question.

You haven't identified the different books and who's name are in them and who's names are not. So you should start with a study to equip you with the knowledge of what the different books are for.