What about the verse are you disagreeing with? And what do you believe I do not understand concerning it?
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In the context of branches before and after the cross there is that one.
Just pointing out Paul speaks of past branches broken off and the chance of future branches broken off.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Not in dispute.
I wasn’t talking about Gods Grace.
Back on point… Salvation..
Salvation is Gods Gift.
Gods Gift of Salvation is Offered to man.
Yes there are Conditions for a man to Receive Gods Gift of Salvation.
Conditions… to Receive the Gift Now Before mortal death.
And;
Conditions… to Receive the Gift After mortal death.
No.
No.
“IT”… is not about “our” anything.
“IT”…is About Christ Jesus.
Off point, back to that later.
Im only pointing out that the verse is not suggesting that a Christian can lose Salvation.
Its interesting that so many Christians, seem to look for verses that they want to use to prove they can lose their salvation.
This is a mental problem, and a pride issue, where the person is trying to find a way to prove that Jesus doesn't keep them saved.
This is really bad theology, and its abusing the bible, and its denying God's Salvation as He designed it.
Listen, God didnt design Salvation so that it can be lost... He designed it so that its completely finished by Jesus and all we do is receive it as a GIFT.
The Gift of Salvation.
What does receiving the Gift of Salvation cause? It causes us to have eternal forgiveness of sin, and to be born again.
You can't stop being born again, as God caused this......and its an eternal spiritual birth that is not affected by your behavior.
Salvation is eternal life, and eternal life is not Temporary......its ETERNAL, and all the born again have it.
I just posted the verse that speaks of not abiding in the doctrine of Christ is a trangression
And John tells us that person hath not God who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ.
No need to speak at and lecture every post that is posted.
Now, if you believe a person can have God without abiding in the doctrine of Christ (unlike what John wrote) than just say so, that you believe John is wrong
Taken
Well-Known Member
Back on point….briefly.
Every man’s SIN is:
*natural Flesh / Body
*natural belief / no belief IN God
*Some mens SIN (who were or are under the Law)…is: violation of the Law….
* LAW …specific…Gods Law, Given MOSES, Moses and his brother Aaron, given ISRAELITES.
ISRAELITES, Agreed to Obey.
Oral
Written
Copied
Distributed to ISRAELITE tribes.
Law … inclusion:
Positive…to do
Negative…to not do
Law (common oral), Statutes Written, Commands (sort of Constitution, under which all Statutes are lawfully established…
(is between a man/ group and God)
And Precepts…behaviors Between men.
MOSES…preach Positive (to do) Law.
MOSES…preach Negative (do not do) Law.
AARON…hear disputes between men.
ASRON…hears witness testimony.
ASRON…issues Lawful Solution.
Men in dispute choices…accept solution, do, or Be shunned, or leave Tribe / group go out on his own.
Gentiles were not given the Law.
Gentiles (broadly) did not attest to Obey the Law.
Gentiles were not under the Law.
Jesus’ Arrival…off point to it is finished.
The “IT”…For Jesus to Accomplish.
The “IT” … Jesus Accomplish-ED.
The “IT”…. Jesus’ remark … “was to God”…
“IT”… ALL Jesus was Sent TO DO… He DID…
And declared…”IT…FINISHED”…
Inanutshell… “IT”…is Fulfillment of Everything IN the Mosaic Law…what was. What was foretold Would Be…Fulfilled, Accomplished, Finished.
The foretelling… of THAT ^^^ to come to pass.
Isaiah 55: ( LORD speaking)
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
John 19: (Jesus speaking)
[27] Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he [/B]said, It is finished: [/B]and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
* to note… more shall be accomplished…
And once the More is accomplishED…
It will be Announced…
“It is DONE”.
( Rev. 21:6)
And yet. you dont even understand what "the doctrine of Christ"......means.
You are just posting verses.....trying to prove that God's Salvation is not eternal.
Thats actually blasphemy........as its insulting God's Grace.
Now, go ahead and try to explain the "doctrine of Christ' as Paul's Gospel., as they are "ONE".
You cant do it.
So, im going to the gym now, and i'll be back later, and i'll read your nonsense explanation, and then correct it. @Truly
Jesus's Sacrifice ..... is the blood and death offering of Himself to God...... for the sin of the world.
John 3:16,17
This "one time eternal" Offering...... is "The Cross of Christ".....and Its a "finished" offering.
Jesus's Cross is the "one time eternal offering for sin".. Hebrews 10:12
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But when this HIGH priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, English Standard Version But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, Berean Standard Bible But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. Berean Literal Bible But this One, having offered one sacrifice for sins in perpetuity, sat down at the right hand of God, King James Bible But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; New King James Version But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, New American Standard Bible but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, Amplified Bible whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, SAT DOWN [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD [the position of honor], |
Taken
Well-Known Member
All living and dead human body’s “are” / “have” SIN.
a humans BODY is Not SIN-LESS…
Until IT is Raised UP… Glorified.
Human body’s ARE Not Raised UP Glorified… Sinless… Until “the Lord God CALLS their BODY Up”…
We have Notice of 144,000 men, 12,000 of each of the 12 Tribes… who were Called Up…Glorified, and Shall Return to Earth, For a Very Specific Mission to Accomplish.
We have Notice of Two Specific men, called Witnesses, (whose details of being called up, are a bit more cloudy). They DO NOT seem to Appear in Glorified bodys … because they meet a bodily death, at the End of their Earthly appearance Mission of Witnessing)…
If their body’s WERE glorified.. their body could not be Killed… as they will be.
Specifically, that is not True.
Christian: calling yourself a Christian, Calling another a Christian.. is merely an Indication the person is “hearing, believing, following, Could be doubting, Jesus’ Teachings).
… the Word Christian… DOES NOT mean, or Reveal An individual “HAS” Gods Gift of Salvation.
Specifically an individual who claims they “ARE IN Christ”, “ARE born Again”… is notice “they… met All of the conditions TO HAVE received and Possess Gods Gift Offering of Salvation”.
Not so.
You are overlooking, ignoring…some Facts…
A human body can Not be Glorified / QUICKENED, made Changed,
UNTIL AFTER it IS DEAD.
Conditions.
1Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Also…the “IF”…(one Does)
The Heartful Belief…( not the mind )
The Belief Confessed.. (not only thought)
A Freewillingness… Not Forced
One doing themselves, for themselves. Not an other.
The offering…to Promise, Vow, by their true confessed Heartful (natural spirit) word, TO the Lord, their own Life unto Death. Freely giving their body unto Death. To Receive Gods Offering of Salvation.
A Spirit… the Lord… verifies that confession BE True.
IF it be True…
( already addressed, the confession)…
He IS the Way… a man an Promise his Life…yet Keep his mortal Life…
Yet… Spiritually the body is Crucified dead with Jesus Body…Accounted having fulfilled ONE bodily Death REQUIREMENT.. before Salvation is Given…
The mystery…
The man IS Accounted Living in Jesus’ RISEN Glorified Body…
Called…. IN Christ .
SO WHAT exactly IS The Lord DOING.. Spiritually, (Outside of mans Sight)… with That mans Body…??
Forgiving It’s SIN? Yes.
Covering its SIN? Yes.
Remembering its SIN? No.
I disagree … that man has Become Made Simless… Before his Body IS raised up.
The man still has his Sin.
His Sin didn’t disappear..
His Sin was Covered with Gods Light.
His Forgiven Sin is remembered no more by God .
(But be prepared… men will claim men sin against men, and men regularly…revel in remembering what they call sin against them).
His sin)
God also Spiritually … washes that mans body in Jesus’ Blood.
That body Is then “set aside”…called Sanctified…
“Set aside”…in Christs “group” so to speak, called Christs Church.
Then that mans Body, forgiveness, cleansing, covering, sanctification….(conditions fulfilled). Is then “Justified”..meaning… documented in Heavenly Evidence.—->
By his name entered IN theLambs Book of Life.
And All names entered INTO the Lambs Book of Life… Have met All the Conditions, the man’s Conditions…the Lords Conditions…that;
The mans body IS Justified to be Redeemed, by The Lord…
that;
Christ the Lord Jesus is Justified to Redeem that mans body…At the appointed Time…
Such Redeeming By Christ Jesus is Called: Rapture.
That ^IS the process…in regard to a human man being Accounted Saved and Prepared to be Redeemed by Christ the Lord…
(Before Trib sent down upon the whole world)
A bit different Process…occurs During the Trib…in which God is Saving, (Believing ISRAELITES, and Believing Gentiles).. whom did not Freely Choose Christ the Lords offering of Salvation before “mortal” death.
Major point to you…
Sin does Not Disappear from a mortal natural living man’s body, whether or not he is forgiven and saved.
Thus no living man, saved or not, can truthfully can claim he “IS” sinless.
His Sin in his natural Body IS forgiven.
His Sin in his natural Body IS Covered.
His Sin in his natural body is remembered no more.
Romans 4:
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Glory to God,
Taken
Sin is found by the LAW.
Its the LAW that defines you as a sinner........so, "where there is no LAW, there is no SIN (Transgression)"... found.
A.) The born again, are "not under the Law, but under Grace"
1.) "Christ is the end of the LAW, for righteousness, to/for everyone who believes".. (Christians).
AA.) The Born again are "made free from sin"....by The blood Atonement.
Every born again Christian, is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST", as "one with God".. an there is no sin found there.
Jesus became our sin, and the born again became Christ's righteousness.
2.) ""God hath made JESUS........to be SIN... for us".....= "Jesus is the ONE TIME... Eternal Sacrifice for sin".
Jesus has our sin, and has died for it, or we still have it, and we are not born again.
Are you born again? Then Jesus has your sin, and you have His Eternal Righteousness.
[/QUOTE]
JB posted in #2
Jesus admonished us to remain in Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Behold's replies to John's words this way in #3
That verse is written before Jesus died on The Cross.
Its written to JEWS.... as the CHURCH is not created yet.
Truly responds to Behold's words with Paul's in post # 14
Concerning the branches before the cross and after Paul also writes
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
JB also adds more of John's words in post # 16
The same John who authored the Gospel of John also stated the instruction to us in
1 John. 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
If a born again Christian does not remain in Christ then they no longer have eternal life.
It’s that simple. Eternal life is being joined to Christ, thus being in Christ.
Truly replies to JB with more of John's words in post # 16
John says this also
2 John 9:19 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Behold's replies to John's words this way in post #18
Every carnal you committed is a "trangresseth".
How many times have you confessed your sin?
So, your verse is saying that you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ.
Is that you? If not, then dont post verses that you dont understand.
But let's look at this again here...
JB posted in #2
Jesus admonished us to remain in Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Behold's replies to Jesus words concerning the branches this way in #3
That verse is written before Jesus died on The Cross.
Its written to JEWS.... as the CHURCH is not created yet.
Truly responds to Behold's words in the context of branches before and after the cross using Paul's words in post # 14
Concerning the branches before the cross and after Paul also writes
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
And Behold responds to mine concerning the branches not being spared after the cross in post # 19
Paul is talking about God's relationship to Israel and to the Gentiles.
He's not talking to a person about their sin.
Truly responds here
Branches were broken of because of unbelief (Rom 11:20-21) and likewise says
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
So when you stated the branches are only spoken of by Jesus to the JEWS while adding, "as the CHURCH is not created yet"
Paul had said, these same branches were broken off for unbelief in Romans, saying,
Rom 11:20-21 because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
And speaking of unbelief Hebrews also says,
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
You do not regard an evil heart of unbelief (for which, the former branches were broken off) is something that concerns us, because afterall the first branches that would be broken off were before the cross, and Paul does not know what he is talking about.
And back to this response to Johns words here which I posted in post #16
John says this also
2 John 9:19 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
And Behold responded to John's words this way in post #18
Every carnal you committed is a "trangresseth".
How many times have you confessed your sin?
So, your verse is saying that you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ.
Is that you?
If not, then dont post verses that you dont understand.
Truly asks in post # 21
What about the verse are you disagreeing with? And what do you believe I do not understand concerning it?
Behold responds
Im only pointing out that the verse is not suggesting that a Christian can lose Salvation.
Its interesting that so many Christians, seem to look for verses that they want to use to prove they can lose their salvation.
This is a mental problem, and a pride issue, where the person is trying to find a way to prove that Jesus doesn't keep them saved.
This is really bad theology, and its abusing the bible, and its denying God's Salvation as He designed it.
Listen, God didnt design Salvation so that it can be lost... He designed it so that its completely finished by Jesus and all we do is receive it as a GIFT.
The Gift of Salvation.
What does receiving the Gift of Salvation cause? It causes us to have eternal forgiveness of sin, and to be born again.
You can't stop being born again, as God caused this......and its an eternal spiritual birth that is not affected by your behavior.
Salvation is eternal life, and eternal life is not Temporary......its ETERNAL, and all the born again have it.
Truly responds in #25
I just posted the verse that speaks of not abiding in the doctrine of Christ is a trangression
And John tells us that person has not God who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ.
Now, if you believe a person can have God without abiding in the doctrine of Christ (unlike what John wrote) than just say so, that you believe John is wrong
And I will also add to that response. If someone is not abiding in Jesus Christ (by whom we come unto the Father John 14:6) not abiding in the doctrine of Jesus Christ (which was not even His own John 7:16) but God the Father's. How does one obtain or say they have eternal life (which is Jesus Christ 1 John 1:2) who also had the very words of eternal life (John 6:68) given him by the Father (John 17:8).?
How are you understanding what John says here concerning not having God the Father if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ.
2 John 9:19 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
How would this mean that a person actually does have God the Father despite rejecting the doctrine of Christ (or not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, of Christ in any way shape or form?
You last response in Post #27
And yet. you dont even understand what "the doctrine of Christ"......means.
I will respond,
By all means explain the doctrine of Christ to me and lets see how not abiding in your spin works with
2 John 9:19
You also posted concerning the scriptures I posted,
You are just posting verses.....trying to prove that God's Salvation is not eternal.
My response,
Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, its by him we have eternal life, but you apparently believe the branches that could be broken off in unbelief in Christ is eternal salvation. Or that someone can not abide in the doctrine of Christ and still have God the Father. I don't read your things typically I only know you snarky at the scriptures and lecture every verse posted (so I thought I would keep you busy). Because I post verses to confirm other verses (to confirm, not contradict and/ or gainsay them) even as I started out with JB, he posts a verse, I post another one confirming his verse, and then we can just stand back and watch you reply by barking at them and insulting people, calling the verses posted blaspheme
Behold posted
Thats actually blasphemy........as its insulting God's Grace.
Why would the doctrine of Christ which is according to godliness be insulting God's grace in some way when its by the grace of God that teaches us to deny Titus 2:11-12 ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world
How would any of the words of the apostles posted be considered blaspheme as written?
They weren't my words, they were their words.
And you can have the last word, (or barking session) at the words of scripture because I know how this goes with you, thats what you do.
So have fun with it (I just had some time to waste so I jumped in for a round)
Jesus admonished us to remain in Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Behold's replies to John's words this way in #3
That verse is written before Jesus died on The Cross.
Its written to JEWS.... as the CHURCH is not created yet.
Truly responds to Behold's words with Paul's in post # 14
Concerning the branches before the cross and after Paul also writes
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
JB also adds more of John's words in post # 16
The same John who authored the Gospel of John also stated the instruction to us in
1 John. 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
If a born again Christian does not remain in Christ then they no longer have eternal life.
It’s that simple. Eternal life is being joined to Christ, thus being in Christ.
Truly replies to JB with more of John's words in post # 16
John says this also
2 John 9:19 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Behold's replies to John's words this way in post #18
Every carnal you committed is a "trangresseth".
How many times have you confessed your sin?
So, your verse is saying that you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ.
Is that you? If not, then dont post verses that you dont understand.
But let's look at this again here...
JB posted in #2
Jesus admonished us to remain in Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Behold's replies to Jesus words concerning the branches this way in #3
That verse is written before Jesus died on The Cross.
Its written to JEWS.... as the CHURCH is not created yet.
Truly responds to Behold's words in the context of branches before and after the cross using Paul's words in post # 14
Concerning the branches before the cross and after Paul also writes
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
And Behold responds to mine concerning the branches not being spared after the cross in post # 19
Paul is talking about God's relationship to Israel and to the Gentiles.
He's not talking to a person about their sin.
Truly responds here
Branches were broken of because of unbelief (Rom 11:20-21) and likewise says
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
So when you stated the branches are only spoken of by Jesus to the JEWS while adding, "as the CHURCH is not created yet"
Paul had said, these same branches were broken off for unbelief in Romans, saying,
Rom 11:20-21 because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
And speaking of unbelief Hebrews also says,
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
You do not regard an evil heart of unbelief (for which, the former branches were broken off) is something that concerns us, because afterall the first branches that would be broken off were before the cross, and Paul does not know what he is talking about.
And back to this response to Johns words here which I posted in post #16
John says this also
2 John 9:19 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
And Behold responded to John's words this way in post #18
Every carnal you committed is a "trangresseth".
How many times have you confessed your sin?
So, your verse is saying that you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ.
Is that you?
If not, then dont post verses that you dont understand.
Truly asks in post # 21
What about the verse are you disagreeing with? And what do you believe I do not understand concerning it?
Behold responds
Im only pointing out that the verse is not suggesting that a Christian can lose Salvation.
Its interesting that so many Christians, seem to look for verses that they want to use to prove they can lose their salvation.
This is a mental problem, and a pride issue, where the person is trying to find a way to prove that Jesus doesn't keep them saved.
This is really bad theology, and its abusing the bible, and its denying God's Salvation as He designed it.
Listen, God didnt design Salvation so that it can be lost... He designed it so that its completely finished by Jesus and all we do is receive it as a GIFT.
The Gift of Salvation.
What does receiving the Gift of Salvation cause? It causes us to have eternal forgiveness of sin, and to be born again.
You can't stop being born again, as God caused this......and its an eternal spiritual birth that is not affected by your behavior.
Salvation is eternal life, and eternal life is not Temporary......its ETERNAL, and all the born again have it.
Truly responds in #25
I just posted the verse that speaks of not abiding in the doctrine of Christ is a trangression
And John tells us that person has not God who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ.
Now, if you believe a person can have God without abiding in the doctrine of Christ (unlike what John wrote) than just say so, that you believe John is wrong
And I will also add to that response. If someone is not abiding in Jesus Christ (by whom we come unto the Father John 14:6) not abiding in the doctrine of Jesus Christ (which was not even His own John 7:16) but God the Father's. How does one obtain or say they have eternal life (which is Jesus Christ 1 John 1:2) who also had the very words of eternal life (John 6:68) given him by the Father (John 17:8).?
How are you understanding what John says here concerning not having God the Father if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ.
2 John 9:19 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
How would this mean that a person actually does have God the Father despite rejecting the doctrine of Christ (or not abiding in the doctrine of Christ, of Christ in any way shape or form?
You last response in Post #27
And yet. you dont even understand what "the doctrine of Christ"......means.
I will respond,
By all means explain the doctrine of Christ to me and lets see how not abiding in your spin works with
2 John 9:19
You also posted concerning the scriptures I posted,
You are just posting verses.....trying to prove that God's Salvation is not eternal.
My response,
Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, its by him we have eternal life, but you apparently believe the branches that could be broken off in unbelief in Christ is eternal salvation. Or that someone can not abide in the doctrine of Christ and still have God the Father. I don't read your things typically I only know you snarky at the scriptures and lecture every verse posted (so I thought I would keep you busy). Because I post verses to confirm other verses (to confirm, not contradict and/ or gainsay them) even as I started out with JB, he posts a verse, I post another one confirming his verse, and then we can just stand back and watch you reply by barking at them and insulting people, calling the verses posted blaspheme
Behold posted
Thats actually blasphemy........as its insulting God's Grace.
Why would the doctrine of Christ which is according to godliness be insulting God's grace in some way when its by the grace of God that teaches us to deny Titus 2:11-12 ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world
How would any of the words of the apostles posted be considered blaspheme as written?
They weren't my words, they were their words.
And you can have the last word, (or barking session) at the words of scripture because I know how this goes with you, thats what you do.
So have fun with it (I just had some time to waste so I jumped in for a round)
Last edited by a moderator:
"The body is dead because of sin".
The Born again CHRISTian, is not the body....they are the spirit that is born again, that exists inside the dying body, and is released upon death or Rapture.
Our Glorified bodies arrive during the Rapture, when the dead in Christ shall rise, and those who are not dead......will all get a New Body that is Designed for the "born again Spirit".
These Jews are not dead......They are alive right now, and are called to be the 144,000.
Their are only 2 Proofs that prove someone is actually a Christian.
1.) "born again"
2.) Have received the Spirit of God........because """they that hath not the Spirit of God is none of God's""""
We get a new body, not a rebulit dead one.
God's Salvation is Jesus on The Cross.
So when we trust in Christ, Christ comes to live inside us as "spiritual union".
"Christ IN YOU>.. the hope of Glory"... (Glory is Heaven).
We are born again before we die, are we are never born again and die as unbelievers.
Paul teaches that """"the old man of sin is Crucified with Christ'.""""
Its Christ's BLOOD that deals with all sin.
The Christian is justified and sanctified the moment they are born again on Earth.
1 Corin 1:30 = KJV
The Rapture is not a process, it is a deliverance.
Paul teaches that "the old man of sin is crucifiec with Christ"
Christ is dead, and so is the "old man of sin".
This is why Paul told you to "reckon the old man DEAD".
The "doctrine of Christ" is not you trying to do good works.
What you are describing is "discipleship"..
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
The way I read Scripture it is not the eternal forgiveness, but the eternal cleansing. In the Old Testament they were forgiven by the blood of bulls and goats. Only Jesus can completely TAKE AWAY our sin so no sin enters heaven. King David understood the neccesity in Psalms 51.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Eternal Forgiveness is eternal cleansing.
= "The blood of Jesus cleanses our sin".....for Eternity.......not just past sins.....but all sin, always.
How can it not?
"Jesus is the One time ......ETERNAL.......sacrifice for sin".
Now, heretics teach that "only your sins that you committed before you were saved, are forgiven".
And that is a false doctrine, and it proves that these people can't read and can't think.., as if they could do both at the same time....then when they read that Jesus's Sacrifice for sin is """ETERNAL""""....they would not be on forums and in pulpits and in commentaries and on Youtube videos, LYING when they say its not an eternal sacrifice.
So, this is why endlessly confused Christians are "confessing sin". ..... Its becasue they dont understand that Jesus's Sacrifice for their sin is '"""""ETERNAL.""""""
And they dont understand that "Christ is the End of The Law for Righteousness".....and they dont understand that.. ."where there is no LAW, there is no SIN (found)"""... = THe born again are "NOT UNDER THE LAW.. but under Grace".
So, these Hebrews 6:1 heretic diaper babies.... have no understanding of Salvation as Christ's eternal Blood Atomentment.
And that is because they were taught a lot of garbage theology by carnal liars, and they believed it.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
How can it not be eternal cleansing......, as "Jesus is the one time ETERNAL sacrifice for sin".
The blood of Jesus , the Atonement, takes care of sin forever and because the Christian is "not under the law, but under Grace".. then the Law can't ever again define a Christians work of the flesh as a sin.
"where there is no Law, there is no Transgression (law)".
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
When we die we will be in the same state we were in when we died. In heaven only those who are righteous/sinless or holy/perfect will be there. There will be no further sins to be cleansed of. In other word, past tense and we have already been cleansed as much as we ever will be in eternity.
Its the born again who will be in Heaven.
They are currently already there.........as """seated in Heavenly Places, in Christ".
Every born again Christian is already "IN Christ", as "one with God".
"Jesus is the ONE TIME>......... Eternal........Sacrifice for sin".
Its completed on behalf of the World.....and its appled to one believer at a time.
John 3:17..Romans 4:8 and 2 Corin 5:19, explain that by Jesus's Blood Atonement, God is not charging sin.
But that is specific, and it means.....He is not charging sin to the CHRISTians.........as the unbelievers are still "in their sins".. and found here.
John 3:36
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Behold, do you agree that not all church goers, even for years, are actually born again?
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