The Wrath of God - How is it love?

[pandaflower]

Did you watch Brad's 'Gospel in Chairs' presentation?

No. He's not a Christian pastor.

When I found his materials early on,I know enough not to pollute my temple of God with teachings from the pit.

 

[quietthinker]

No. He's not a Christian pastor.

When I found his materials early on,I know enough not to pollute my temple of God with teachings from the pit.

So there you go, you validate my previous statement about 'labelling'...post #231

 

[Hiddenthings]

@quietthinker

The legal model vs. the hospital model of the Gospels.

Do you think the Gospel as recorded references both?

 

[pandaflower]

So there you go, you validate my previous statement about 'labelling'...post #231

OK.
BTW, "Christian", is a label.


I'm just following the example of Jesus. We are to expose you. Not concede you're right.

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."



"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."

 

[Behold]

or is your projection a defence mechanism because you refuse to or can't answer my questions

You meant to say.... "why did you refuse to address my specific insinuation(s)".

Now if you ask me, if im seminary trained.. or what is my depth of scholastic study related to Grk Texts, or Manuscript evidence, or NT Studies... or what Offices ive held in the Chruch or what is my specific Ministry Call. ect, ect.....which would be legit questions, then i would answer you.

Let me know if you can figure that out @quietthinker

 

[quietthinker]

@quietthinker

The legal model vs. the hospital model of the Gospels.

Do you think the Gospel as recorded references both?

The Gospel is Gods message of kindness to fallen mankind. Does that fit into Calvin or Luther's legal model or Mother Teresa's hospital model?

What I know is that God is kind even to those who murder him.

 

[quietthinker]

BTW, "Christian", is a label.

It is.....a label with baggage. The type of baggage is determined by the one doing the defining.

I'm just following the example of Jesus. We are to expose you. Not concede you're right.

Watch Brad's clip....you don't need or have to concede anything.
Not having seen it and relying on the reports of others only puts you into the category warned by the texts you quoted below

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."

"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."

 

[quietthinker]

You meant to say.... "why did you refuse to address my specific insinuation(s)".

Now if you ask me, if im seminary trained.. or what is my depth of scholastic study related to Grk Texts, or Manuscript evidence, or NT Studies... or what Offices ive held in the Chruch or what is my specific Ministry Call. ect, ect.....which would be legit questions, then i would answer you.

Let me know if you can figure that out @quietthinker

You are spinning off into all sorts of imagining and projection Behold.

 

[pandaflower]

It is.....a label with baggage. The type of baggage is determined by the one doing the defining.

Good luck with that

Watch Brad's clip....you don't need or have to concede anything.
Not having seen it and relying on the reports of others only puts you into the category warned by the texts you quoted below

Wrong. See,you didn't read what I said.

Brad isn't a Christian. He said it. I believe him.

End of story.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The Gospel is Gods message of kindness to fallen mankind. Does that fit into Calvin or Luther's legal model or Mother Teresa's hospital model?

What I know is that God is kind even to those who murder him.

It’s admirable the way you emphasize God’s kindness. I don’t believe it gives the fullest balance, but there’s nothing wrong with exalting His goodness, so long as it’s not at the expense of recognizing His severity.

 

[quietthinker]

Wrong. See,you didn't read what I said.

Brad isn't a Christian. He said it. I believe him.

End of story.

Well there yer go...you've decided on labels (they become your defining 'end of story') and more than that, your definition of labels informs you without understanding HOW and WHY others use them...in their context.

 

[quietthinker]

It’s admirable the way you emphasize God’s kindness. I don’t believe it gives the fullest balance, but there’s nothing wrong with exalting His goodness, so long as it’s not at the expense of recognizing His severity.

We must see Jesus through the Father's eyes and we must see the Father through Jesus' eyes. This will give us balance. Any other view (and there are many) distort, malign and misrepresent the heart of God......irrespective of how learned or pious they appear.

 

[Hiddenthings]

We must see Jesus through the Father's eyes and we must see the Father through Jesus' eyes. This will give us balance. Any other view (and there are many) distort, malign and misrepresent the heart of God......irrespective of how learned or pious they appear.

I get the sense that you’re not very comfortable discussing the severity of God. Is it something you’d rather avoid, perhaps out of fear, or a tendency to overlook it?

 

[quietthinker]

I get the sense that you’re not very comfortable discussing the severity of God. Is it something you’d rather avoid, perhaps out of fear, or a tendency to overlook it?

I don't view it like that (one of discomfort)
I will say however that the severity of God seen independent of Jesus informs the logic of man's disposition to violence.
For example, consider the amount of posts on hell and punishment and their justifications as opposed to presenting Jesus so that he is organically attractive!

 

[Hiddenthings]

I don't view it like that (one of discomfort)
I will say however that the severity of God seen independent of Jesus informs the logic of man's disposition to violence.
For example, consider the amount of posts on hell and punishment and their justifications as opposed to presenting Jesus so that he is organically attractive!

As you know I do not hold to the traditional view of eternal torment.

Take Acts chapter 3 as an example.

This event was a deliberate unfolding of God’s purpose designed to vividly display both His goodness and His severity. In it, the two apostles would be seen first healing the afflicted (verses 2–11), and then bringing judgment upon the guilty (verses12–18).

The work is in harmony with God's balanced character.

How do you understand the Ananias and Sapphira event?

 

[quietthinker]

As you know I do not hold to the traditional view of eternal torment.

Take Acts chapter 3 as an example.

This event was a deliberate unfolding of God’s purpose designed to vividly display both His goodness and His severity. In it, the two apostles would be seen first healing the afflicted (verses 2–11), and then bringing judgment upon the guilty (verses12–18).

The work is in harmony with God's balanced character.

How do you understand the Ananias and Sapphira event?

Re Ananias and Sapphira .... The revelation of the truth which they conspired to conceal was too much for their emotional/ mental system. They died of heart/ brain failure induced by instant emotional/ mental overload.....as is, 'their hearts failing them for fear' idea.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Re Ananias and Sapphira .... The revelation of the truth which they conspired to conceal was too much for their emotional/ mental system. They died of heart/ brain failure induced by instant emotional/ mental overload.....as is, 'their hearts failing them for fear' idea.

The remarkable display of the supreme power and authority of the One they worshipped inspired deep reverence among the believers. This incident served not only as a warning to the church but also as a profound lesson in godliness. It underscored the necessity of complete and undivided loyalty to God, reminding them that while Yahweh is a God of grace and mercy, He is equally a God of justice and judgment.

 

[Brakelite]

Ultimately God wants to correct what sin is doing to us. IMHO

Absolutely.

Why should we be blamed for not being like God?

Most, unless their minds and hearts are changed into the image of Christ, behave in a manner that wrongly reflects what they do believe God to be like. And I speak of churchmen here, those who are quite happy to foresee and imagine an eternal suffering, and are willing to help God accomplish it.

The Fall set up His plan of redemption.
There would be no story without it.
Did God not anticipate this?

Sure. And He and His Son agreed on the remedy, if such a situation was to eventuate. This however didn't guarantee the fall. The plan of salvation was always plan B.
God certainly knows what will taken place in the future, for example the mark of the beast, but it does not mean He's deliberately orchestrating and manipulating society in such a way that the mark and His promised wrath becomes inevitable. On the contrary, what He is doing is operating within His own self imposed limits...love, mercy, and grace... To prepare His people to be strong enough to endure and throughout that crisis to exemplify and reveal the character of Christ, in regardless of the opposition that Satan, his demons, and the wicked governments of this world may choose to do against God and His chosen.

 

[pandaflower]

Well there yer go...you've decided on labels (they become your defining 'end of story') and more than that, your definition of labels informs you without understanding HOW and WHY others use them...in their context.

Brad labeled himself! And in so doing is not a Christian. As he said.

God labels people . If you read the OT you'll see he labeled them and then he killed them.

God,who was Jesus in the flesh, drowned the whole world. Except for 8 people,sinners,so the human fallen race could start a new. As sinners first.

Your liberal ideology isn't in scripture. It's sophistry.

You're promoting heresy and blasphemy. And you label others crudely because we see that

God's not warm and fuzzy. He's not all love all the time

One would have to read the Bible to face that. Because he tells us so.
The next time God destroys us? He'll burn us alive!

Feel the love.
The whole world goes to Hell at once.

If I pick up a book with spaceships on the cover, I want spaceships. If I see one with dragons, I want there to be dragons inside the book. Proper labeling. Ethical labeling. I don't want to open up my cornflakes and find that they're full of pebbles... You need to respect the reader enough not to call it something it isn't.
Margaret Atwood


We're done.
It isn't right to continue an exchange with an unbeliever of scripture.

 

[Brakelite]

The remarkable display of the supreme power and authority of the One they worshipped inspired deep reverence among the believers. This incident served not only as a warning to the church but also as a profound lesson in godliness. It underscored the necessity of complete and undivided loyalty to God, reminding them that while Yahweh is a God of grace and mercy, He is equally a God of justice and judgment.

I think in hindsight we may view it as such, but I think for those primitive Christians in their early growth and understanding, there would have been a certain compelling fear of judgement that coloured their future behaviour and loyalties. Such fear, today I believe is unjustified knowing and experiencing the all pervading love of Christ. Not to say judgement is a false narrative, but rather mercy and grace is a greater catalyst for righteousness and faithfulness.