“It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption"
What is the “it” in that verse?
What is the corruption that “it” is sown into?
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What is the “it” in that verse?
What is the corruption that “it” is sown into?
PS95
Well-Known Member
what about the bodies of believers who are alive who will be changed when Jesus comes with those who died earlier?
Their bodies are changed as in transformed. Not all will die.
Jesus says no one who believes in him will die. That is the blessed hope that we are to comfort one another with.
We will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into the glorified NEW body and the old body will fall to the ground and rot. The way it has been from the beginning.
PS95
Well-Known Member
uhhh it doesnt say our old bodies will fall into the ground to rot. It says our bodies will be CHANGED.
Jesus' body did not rot. Never saw corruption. He was also changed.
PS95
Well-Known Member
You didn't address what I said. It doesn't matter what I am now. WE WILL BE CHANGED when He Comes. WE will not die - but our bodies will be CHANGED. You deny this.
Also, A resurrection is NOT a re-creation. It is a resurrection. Jesus' body rose. He was changed.
You’re old “body of death” doesn’t get a makeover, it rots in the ground and you’re given a new heavenly body. This what the whole seed analogy is about.
PS95
Well-Known Member
ok this is going in circles... you don't even believe in resurrections.. you have re-creations.
and
Those who are alive WILL BE CHANGED not destroyed, not rotted, CHANGED to be like Jesus.
One last attempt here.
Seed Analogy (Internal Seed vs. Seed Body)
- Seed body = the physical shell of the seed → what is sown in the ground.
- Internal seed = the life inside the seed → what allows a new plant to grow.
- Seed body decays (rots in the ground).
- Internal seed survives in a hidden way and produces new life (the plant).
2. Human Parallel (1 Cor 15:44)
- Natural body = the “seed body” → earthly, perishable flesh.
- Life/soul = the “internal seed” → the animating principle within the body.
- Natural body decays like the seed body.
- Life/soul persists → it is this life that is the “it” in “it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.”
- Spiritual body = the new creation, raised by God, animated by the same life/soul.
3. Key Insight
- The continuity from natural to spiritual body is not in the flesh, but in the internal seed—the life/soul.
- The physical, perishable body is discarded, just as the seed shell is discarded in the ground.
- Resurrection is a new creation brought forth by the life that persists, not a transformation of decayed flesh.
When a person dies, their body dies and decays over time.
When the resurrection of them in Christ takes place, the body is not resurrected back into it's old self, but into a incorruptible eternal body, caught up to meet the translated (raptured) living in Christ in the air, to meet Jesus to forever be with the Lord.
The resurrection is the redemption of our bodies. When we become Christians, it is our souls that are redeemed at that very moment and have eternal life in Christ.
The resurrection/rapture event is the redemption of bodies.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I understand, but stick around, these are exciting times.
Let me just make a statement on what I "believe", maybe this will help: I have not been discussing what I "believe." In fact, I came to "know" before I ever "believed"...so very little of what I do here is a discussion. You don't have to believe me or take my word for it, and I know would-be claims are a dime a dozen, but I--I alone was caught up to the third heaven and heard words unlawful to utter--until recently. I have written four books as a result--not really as a writer per se, I get corrected all the time on my grammar, etc. Anyway, my story is not unlike Paul's road to Damascus experience, quite literally the other bookend of the times of the gentiles. So, when I say something as if I merely believe it, like so many do--that is not the case, because I actually know.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
@Douggg
Paul did clarified, saying, "And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain" (1 Corinthians 15:37).
The body of flesh is not transformed or changed in the way of rejuvenation, but returns to the dust and is destroyed. To the contrary, Paul's overall message is regarding the new man and new creation born of the spirit of God and not flesh and blood at all, but greater--even perfect as He is perfect. Paul simply gave a good example, of what actually has not true comparison. Therefore, he did also give clarification.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Ok Scott. I don't know much about you at all. But if you disagree with scripture then I'm going to have to pass. I am waiting for my acct to be deleted since there is no way to check out of here like Hotel California..
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I agree, when we become Christians, our souls are brought from death into life. That is the Resurrection. I’m not arguing against that, in fact, that’s what I’m arguing for.
This Resurrection is purely about the soul. It doesn’t involve the raising of our earthly bodies.
The new body we ultimately receive isn’t part of the Resurrection itself, it’s a gift given because our souls were resurrected so that we can go directly to heaven when we leave this body.
I didn't see you use ANY... Bible Scriptures. Instead, you went on about some rant that the Dead Sea Scrolls contained things Jesus said. The Dead Sea Scrolls IS NOT THE BIBLE. Thus what you are suggesting is that the DSS is part of The Bible, when it AIN'T. And that just proves what I pointed to about the secret fraternities that TRY to claim heritage from the Essenes. You sound just like a member of one of those SECRET SOCIETIES.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
This verse plainly says that something is sleeping in the dust of the earth, and that what is sleeping in the dust of the earth shall awake at the time. In the meantime it is sleeping in the dust of the earth. No one can mistake this for heaven. Whatever is sleeping in the dust of the earth is not in heaven at the time if it is sleeping in the dust of the earth instead.
What then is sleeping in the dust of the earth that does not awaken until the resurrection meant in this verse takes place first? Unless you have an answer for that, what point are you trying to make in the meantime?
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Surely, Isaiah 26:19 is referring to a resurrection and that it has to be involving the same one meant in Daniel 12:2. Notice that it says the earth shall cast out the dead, not heaven shall cast out the dead.
Then there is the following event that already happened 2000 years ago, the point being, notice what the text states came out of the graves at the time---I have it underlined below.
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
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What you apparently are not recognizing is that not all their claims are the OSAS doctrine. If one still repents and asks forgiveness of future sin like The Bible teaches then that is NOT the OSAS doctrine. Those brethren are just confused, just like some who claim to believe the word 'rapture' by itself always means a Pre-trib rapture when it doesn't.
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