The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[Wick Stick]

My claim is that Jesus was deconstructing the law.
If it's not a law, He wasn't breaking it.
He declared that He was Lord of the Sabbath.
It was His call.

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What do you mean by deconstructing?

I think of it in terms of taking something apart. But if I take apart my pool pump, that doesn't make it not-a-pool-pump.

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you mean by deconstructing?

I think of it in terms of taking something apart. But if I take apart my pool pump, that doesn't make it not-a-pool-pump.

How much pool could a pool pump pump if a pool pump couldn't pump pool?

I think a deconstructed pool pump is no longer a pool pump.

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[Wick Stick]

How much pool could a pool pump pump if a pool pump couldn't pump pool?

I think a deconstructed pool pump is no longer a pool pump.

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Only if you don't put it back together.

"But I say to you" seems like a puttin-it-back-together sort of thing.

 

[St. SteVen]

Only if you don't put it back together.

"But I say to you" seems like a puttin-it-back-together sort of thing.

Like building a cabin out of old wood pallets.
It's not a stack of pallets anymore, it's a cabin.

I also find it interesting that Jesus spoke about the law as if it was hearsay.

"You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..."

The word "BUT" indicates a contrast.

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[Davy]

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

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Not good enough, that link leaves out quite a bit more that Apostle Paul had to say about God's law.

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

Is Paul above talking about 'your' interpretation of "the law of Christ"? No. He is talking about God's laws written in the Old Testament Books. And he said that is "According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust." That means The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Note what Paul said in Romans 13...

Rom 13:9
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
KJV

Paul above quoted God's law written in the Old Testament Books, and he linked those laws directly to that "royal law", "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"! So HOW can you TRY to ISOLATE God's laws written in the Old Testament Books that Jesus DID NOT NAIL TO HIS CROSS? You simply have not understood the difference between the old covenant handwriting of ordinances vs. God's laws.


The "law of Christ" is about greater APPLICATIONS of God's laws per The New Covenant, while doing away with the ritual ordinances in the old covenant, like that Col.2:12-17 Scripture states. Yet "the law of Christ" cannot be properly understood with trying to ISOLATE it apart from God's laws, which is what your post and that link is trying to do. And I am speaking from a Protestant Christian standpoint; I am not Jewish, nor SDA, nor JW.

James 2:8-13
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

That "royal law" is... the "law of Christ", as that underlined above is what Jesus quoted in Matthew 19:19, and is originally written in Leviticus 19:18. Lord Jesus also explained some of the differences in Matthew 5, but in more detail from God's laws in Matthew 22, Mark 12.

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He That said, 'Do not commit adultery', said also, 'Do not kill.' Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
KJV

With the "law of liberty" in Christ Jesus, we are actually held to a higher SPIRITUAL standard REGARDING God's laws. Under the old covenant, the Leviticus 19 commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself was applied 'within' the children of Israel and the strangers with them under the old covenant, but not to all peoples, but only those under the old covenant God gave through Moses to the children of Israel. Under Jesus, that Leviticus 19 commandment applies to ALL peoples, regardless of birth.

Under the old covenant, Israel was not to eat outside of God's healthy list of meats given to be received. Thus pork was outside that list, and even today the majority of orthodox Jews still do not eat pork. Under the "law of liberty" in Christ, we are not to be judged of what we eat. However, our flesh still won't be as healthy if we continually eat outside of God's healthy meat list. So we cannot just try and do away with many of God's laws first written in the Old Testament Books, because they are not the same thing as the 'old covenant' of ordinances that Jesus nailed to His cross.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not good enough, that link leaves out quite a bit more that Apostle Paul had to say about God's law.

What is God's law?
Get your definitions straight please.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Wick Stick]

Like building a cabin out of old wood pallets.
It's not a stack of pallets anymore, it's a cabin.

This begs a question. If Jesus took apart the Law, and then put it back together as something different...

...what was it?

 

[MatthewG]

All I know is that Jesus was the only person ever to truly love God and love others, without having to make any sacrafices for sin.
Jesus paid the price of sin, as he was beaten by the 40 men in the Roman room which people were beaten, and struck. Jesus was spit on his face, and also he was hit, and also he was put a throny crown, which had to hurt, before they robed him back up and sent him out carrying the cross, which i think peter or someone showed up and helped Jesus. Jesus died the very same day he was nailed to the cross, it was not very long and then they came back and got the body and prepared it for burial. The woman anonited him with perfume, and people had a fit about it, but anyway. Jesus went to hell, preached to the place talked about founded in "Parable of Rich Man and Lazarus."

Whatever he preached to the people in this place where sin was not yet taken care of yet, which separated everyone from God. Jesus went in to this place when he fulfilled what was he said he would fulfill, which he was the only ever one to love God with all his heart, and to love his neighbor as himself. Even the rich person who had done everything but failed in one area, realized he could never be perfect in a manner like Jesus is shown, whom is the representation of God's heart, as the Word of God incased that body of Flesh, also known as "God with us" Immanuel.

Its interesting how Jesus went to hell when he gave up his life for his Father and for humankind because he loves you and continues to love you, and I believe these are also good things to remember continue to go and walk in faith knowning it is Jesus and his righteousness and his doing and fulfilling of the law, a person because of Yeshua, is now given the ability to become a child of God if they so choose to be born again by the spirit of God that God gives to all people but if they open up or spiritually awake you might not be able to tell unless there is some type of change.

From a dark, hard, heart, to a good, soft, kind, heart with God working and on your own soul.

I think there is a lot of good merit to go back and look at some of the scriptures we have and check out what one can find. No one should ever trust me or believe me.

 

[MatthewG]

I would also simply like to share the rewritten - copilot ai rewrite tool had come up with for anyone who wants to read this in an entirely different way.

All I know is this: Jesus is the only person who ever truly loved God with all his heart and loved others perfectly—without needing to make sacrifices for his own sin. He was sinless, yet he bore the full weight of sin for humanity.

He was beaten by Roman soldiers—forty men in a room designed for punishment. They struck him, spit on him, mocked him, and pressed a crown of thorns into his head. After that, they robed him again and sent him out to carry the cross. It wasn’t Peter, but Simon of Cyrene who helped him bear it. Jesus was crucified and died that same day. His body was taken down and prepared for burial. A woman anointed him with perfume beforehand, and though people objected, it was a beautiful act of devotion.

After his death, Jesus descended to the place described in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus—a realm where souls were separated from God because sin had not yet been dealt with. There, he preached to those who had been waiting. He fulfilled everything he said he would, because he alone loved God fully and loved his neighbor as himself.

Even the rich man who had kept all the commandments but failed in one area realized he could never be perfect like Jesus. Jesus is the embodiment of God’s heart—the Word made flesh, Immanuel, “God with us.”

It’s profound to think that Jesus entered that place of separation after giving up his life for the Father and for humankind. He did it out of love—love that continues even now. Because of his righteousness and his fulfillment of the law, we are given the chance to become children of God. But it’s a choice. To be born again by the Spirit of God is to awaken spiritually, and that awakening often shows itself through change.

A hardened heart becomes soft. A bitter soul becomes kind. God begins working within us.

There’s great value in returning to Scripture and exploring what it reveals. I’m not asking anyone to believe me blindly. I just think it’s worth seeking—and letting the truth speak for itself.

 

[St. SteVen]

This begs a question. If Jesus took apart the Law, and then put it back together as something different...

...what was it?

Good question.
I think he stripped away the outer layer to find the heart of God's law.
(the law that preceded the law given to the Israelites by God through Moses)
He referred to the OT law as hearsay to get at the real issues.

The OT law was by the book. Jesus was introducing a whole new way to view it.

Therefore, I don't think Jesus was dissembling and then reconstructing the OT law.
I use the word deconstructing. Like the pallets used to make that cabin.
No resemblance to the former material. (or its purpose)

Romans 5:13-14 NIV
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command,
as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

Ephesians 2:14-16 NIV
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one
and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,
by which he put to death their hostility.

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[Lambano]

What is God's law?
Get your definitions straight please.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

[

That's what C.S. Lewis, in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe called the "Deeper Magic". The Law behind the Torah. A concept that long ago captured my imagination when I first read The Chronicles of Narnia.

 

[St. SteVen]

That's what C.S. Lewis, in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe called the "Deeper Magic". The Law behind the Torah. A concept that long ago captured my imagination when I first read The Chronicles of Narnia.

Agree.
Why was it sin for Cain to murder his brother?
What law was in place? (God's law)
The law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses did not arrive until Exodus chapter 20.
Sabbath law in Exodus 16. (manna collection)

[

 

[Lambano]

What law was in place? (God's law)

This "law" was always in the heart of God.

 

[amigo de christo]

You can easily discern those who preach CHRIST
verses those who might think they do yet preach their religoin .
I dont go around trying to convince folks to be baptist , catholic , or anything
BUT SIMPLY CHRISTAIN and TO FOLLOW CHRIST .
TO FOLLOW and obey CHRIST . many think they are often preaching Christ
when they are really preaching LETS be catholic , or lets be this or that .
I SAY LETS BE THOSE WHO SERVE JESUS and not men . Lets get in the BIBLE to learn for us .
But many seem to preach calvin or whatever else men taught them .
THEIR evangelising is for their denomination , their church . IT SHOULD BE CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED
and all things HE did teach and later the apostels taught that we should be focused on instead .
Many go about to make converts to their places of worship ,; to their system
BUt it ought to be CONVERTS TO CHRIST .
I have ,by grace , always preached JUST JESUS and BIBLICAL DOCTRINE . not trying to
get men into any certain denomination OR catholicism . JUST JESUS . I SUGGEST EVERYONE does the same .
Because we are and have been being LIED TO by many men and specially more so in these last hours .
LET US who are HIS preach JESUS THE CHRIST .
WE are christains , not methodist , not catholic, not baptist , not whatever else men decided .
WE are Christain and let us preach JESUS and all biblical doctrine . WHILE there still be time to do so .

 

[St. SteVen]

This "law" was always in the heart of God.

Reminded me of this:
Everyone did what was right in their own eyes. (Judges 21:25)

This phrase refers to a time in ancient Israel, specifically in the Book of Judges,
when there was no king, and people acted according to their own beliefs and desires,
leading to moral chaos and disorder. It highlights the dangers of a society where individuals
define right and wrong for themselves without a common standard. (ai generated)

[

 

[Lambano]

Reminded me of this:
Everyone did what was right in their own eyes. (Judges 21:25)

This phrase refers to a time in ancient Israel, specifically in the Book of Judges,
when there was no king, and people acted according to their own beliefs and desires,
leading to moral chaos and disorder. It highlights the dangers of a society where individuals
define right and wrong for themselves without a common standard.

[

Yep. Like our ISO 9000 compliance officer said, "First, you have to have a well-defined process. Then you at least know what you're deviating from."

 

[Lambano]

Reminded me of this:
Everyone did what was right in their own eyes. (Judges 21:25)

Also reminds me of Romans 3:20 and 7:13.

3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

7:13 Therefore did that which is good become death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by bringing about my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Luther and the Reformers took the position regarding the Old Testament that the primary purpose of those 613 mitzvot isn't to obey them per se (though it's a good idea to not commit adultery, murder, idolatry, etc.); their purpose is to identify sin as sin.

 

[Wick Stick]

The law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses did not arrive until Exodus chapter 20.
Sabbath law in Exodus 16. (manna collection)

I don't think that's true.

Moses appears to have received much of The Law from his father-in-law. Since Jethro was an Edomite, it stands to reason that the Edomites had The Law BEFORE Moses gave it to Israel.

The prophet Habbakuk remembers a time when God rode forth out of Edom, not Israel:

Chapter 3: 3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from Mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. 4 And [his] brightness was as the light; he had horns [coming] out of his hand: and there [was] the hiding of his power. 5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet. 6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways [are] everlasting.

 

[amigo de christo]

Reminded me of this:
Everyone did what was right in their own eyes. (Judges 21:25)

This phrase refers to a time in ancient Israel, specifically in the Book of Judges,
when there was no king, and people acted according to their own beliefs and desires,
leading to moral chaos and disorder. It highlights the dangers of a society where individuals
define right and wrong for themselves without a common standard. (ai generated)

[

You can easily discern those who preach CHRIST
verses those who might think they do yet preach their religoin .
I dont go around trying to convince folks to be baptist , catholic , or anything
BUT SIMPLY CHRISTAIN and TO FOLLOW CHRIST .
TO FOLLOW and obey CHRIST . many think they are often preaching Christ
when they are really preaching LETS be catholic , or lets be this or that .
I SAY LETS BE THOSE WHO SERVE JESUS and not men . Lets get in the BIBLE to learn for us .
But many seem to preach calvin or whatever else men taught them .
THEIR evangelising is for their denomination , their church . IT SHOULD BE CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED
and all things HE did teach and later the apostels taught that we should be focused on instead .
Many go about to make converts to their places of worship ,; to their system
BUt it ought to be CONVERTS TO CHRIST .
I have ,by grace , always preached JUST JESUS and BIBLICAL DOCTRINE . not trying to
get men into any certain denomination OR catholicism . JUST JESUS . I SUGGEST EVERYONE does the same .
Because we are and have been being LIED TO by many men and specially more so in these last hours .
LET US who are HIS preach JESUS THE CHRIST .
WE are christains , not methodist , not catholic, not baptist , not whatever else men decided .
WE are Christain and let us preach JESUS and all biblical doctrine . WHILE there still be time to do so .

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
The law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses did not arrive until Exodus chapter 20.
Sabbath law in Exodus 16. (manna collection)

I don't think that's true.

Moses appears to have received much of The Law from his father-in-law. Since Jethro was an Edomite, it stands to reason that the Edomites had The Law BEFORE Moses gave it to Israel.

I agree that the Books of the Law (capital L) were gathered (curated) from various sources.
But I am referring to "the law". The law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses which did not arrive until Exodus chapter 20.
Sabbath law in Exodus 16. (manna collection)

God dictated THESE laws to Moses and he wrote them down. (later) ??? See Exodus chapters 20-31.

Exodus 31:18 NIV
When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai,
he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law,
the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

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