Death will be no more, due to no more births.

[HealthyShape]

God the Father has been longsuffering for a very, very long time, not only for Israel to repent towards Him through faith in Jesus, but even more so, ALL the Gentiles of "whosoever will".

Unfortunately, the very people of Israel, of whom should have known who Jesus was, was rejected by them and then crucified to death. In that act of "abomination", that they committed, in "the shedding of the innocent blood" of God's only begotten Son (Prov. 6:17) they sealed their own fate of destruction and desolation and did receive that judgment in 70AD and onward, whereby altogether they as a people claiming to be of God and for God, have become nothing but a stumbling stone against the opportunity of God's Grace and salvation towards all people.

OK, but this does not answer my question. My question was if the New Testament was mistaken/wrong when it predicted the end of the world, the 2nd coming of Christ etc. to happen in their life time.

It seems to me you said that God changed the timing or something like that. And to that I asked how to make a sense of it, because God knows everything from eternity.

 

[Earburner]

I can think of about 25 passages where the NT says we are to be taught the word by the leadership in a church. The OT anointing was reserved for the leaders, not the Jews in general. For example, the priests were anointed to teach the people God's word. In the NT, the apostles, the Pastor-Teachers, and the elders were anointed to teach. There may be a different anointing that Christians have to be taught spiritual truth, but the teaching must be present first, and the Holy Spirit does not just do a data dump into your brain. You have to study to show yourself approved unto God. We have to renew our minds to become Christ-like. Jesus prayed that the Father would sanctify the Christians by the truth, the Word is truth.

2nd Cor 1.21 says,

21 Now it is God who makes both us and you (two groups) stand firm in Christ. He anointed us (not you),

22 set his seal of ownership on us (apostles, pastor-teachers, elders, etc), and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

So, the leaders are anointed, the congregation has the Holy Spirit in them to aide their learning of spiritual truth.

1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Apostle John is writing to the leaders about the false teachers and advised them that they don't need someone to teach them, they have already been taught by the Apostles and elders. Now it is the pastor's job (obligation) to teach the congregations. The congregation is to sit under the teaching of their pastor-teacher.

Paul even rebukes some of those of the congregation for being babes, they can't handle the meat of the word, not because the Holy Spirit failed, but because the babes were lazy and unmotivated. They don't just say, Holy Spirit give me wisdom and then just wait around for the Spirit to fill them with doctrine.

Thanks for the knowledge of your insight.
Most all of us do know that prior to 300 AD many Christians and their churches had to depend upon the limited availability of a hand written NT. Bible, and therefore did have to trust and depend on the early church fathers for the fundamental doctrines of truth. Eph. 4:1-32.

Today, for all who are born again of the Holy Spirit, only they are able to discern the written words of their Bibles, that shall clearly help them to be approved of by God, in whatever capacity God would guide and work through them by the Gifts and Fruit of His Holy Spirit.

As for all the denominational Bible colleges and Seminaries of today (church-ianity), they are altogether divided and have become the "approvers" of "the wisdom of men" and not that which is taught by the Lord's Holy Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

OK, but this does not answer my question. My question was if the New Testament was mistaken/wrong when it predicted the end of the world, the 2nd coming of Christ etc. to happen in their life time.

No, the NT is not mistaken/wrong. It's a matter of understanding and accepting what Jesus said about Who it is ONLY that knows when the end of the End shall be.
Mat. 24
[32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.**(please see note below).
[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation [of born again New creatures] shall not pass [away], till all these things be fulfilled.
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

It seems to me you said that God changed the timing or something like that. And to that I asked how to make a sense of it, because God knows everything from eternity.

God the Father is abiding and longsuffering within the time frame that He has allowed for satan to bring about God's decision of WHEN the end of the End (the consummation H3617- Dan. 9:27) shall be.
It will be satan's final act and manifestation of the "mark of the beast" that shall separate the sheep from the goats. Once that is accomplished, God will immediately send Jesus to redeem all of God's remaining remnant of born again Saints.

Edit:
Because God knows that satan's desire is "to be like the Most High" (Isa. 14:14), God knows that Satan will copy and mimick God in all that He Himself does. Therefore, what God did do in that of setting a "mark" on Cain, to keep any person from killing him, Satan in the end WILL DO THE SAME. Any person who has his "mark of the beast" will not be killed, but everyone that does NOT have his "mark", SHOULD be killed". Rev. 13:15
Please notice the word "should". It doesn't necessarily mean that they WILL be killed, because it may be that Jesus shall suddenly come precisely at that time, when we, God's "camp of the Saints" are being "compassed about". Rev. 20:9

**Note: in Mat. 24:32, I don't think there are many that see the significance and true meaning of the words:"...and putteth forth leaves".
For correct understanding of what that means and involves, we must connect it with the words in Rev. 22:2. "....and the leaves of the tree [of life] were for the healing of the nations.
No, it's not a physical mortal healing, but rather a spiritual inward healing of all born again believers in Christ in all the nations.
1 Peter 2
[24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Therefore, all born again saints that proclaim the gospel message to others, are the true church, and are the leaves of the Tree of Life for the (spiritual, inward) healing of the nations.

 

[HealthyShape]

No, the NT is not mistaken/wrong. It's a matter of understanding and accepting what Jesus said about Who it is ONLY that knows when the end of the End shall be.
Mat. 24
[32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation [of born again New creatures] shall not pass [away], till all these things be fulfilled.
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

God the Father is abiding and longsuffering within the time frame that He has allowed for satan to bring about God's decision of WHEN the end of the End (the consummation H3617- Dan. 9:27) shall be.
It will be satan's final act and manifestation of the "mark of the beast" that shall separate the sheep from the goats. Once that is accomplished, God will immediately send Jesus to redeem all of God's remaining remnant of born again Saints.

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son
Heb 1:2

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

We are not talking about specific hour or specific day in the first century, but the NT is clear - it had to happen soon.

 

[Lizbeth]

A. There shall be no more death,
Because:
B. There shall be no more births.

A. Rev. 21
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Because:
B. 2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Amen, no more death and tears if there is nobody left sinning....and in the end there will be no more death and tears in heaven for those who know the Lord.

And may I try to share something the Lord just showed me recently? He did begin to open my eyes to the fact that the book of Revelation sort of reiterates and restates or sums up the gospel three or four years ago. But i couldn't grasp that part about no more death and no more tears until just a day or two ago....when I was reading and meditating on this in Psalm 116 and the Lord was kind to illuminated it for me:

116:7-10

Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee.

For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.

I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.

I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted:

It is talking about the afflictions of being in sin and without God in the world......and how through faith in Christ, God gives life to the soul instead of spiritual death, that we may walk in the "land of the living" instead of being among the spiritually dead, and how He redeems and wipes away the tears that come with messing up our lives from going astray and being lost and not walking according to His ways.

 

[KUWN]

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son
Heb 1:2

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

We are not talking about specific hour or specific day in the first century, but the NT is clear - it had to happen soon.

The idea of a any moment return of Christ is known as pre-trib. That's what you see in some of these passages. The 'end' is near is an idiom for the end could happen any moment during the Church Age. The Bride will miss the Tribulation since the Tribulation is part of the Jewish dispensation and is intended for the Jews. The Tribulation corresponds the final 7 years of the Jewish dispensation. Again, this is self-evident IF you use the Literal interpretation method. That

"... because the time is near" simply means that the next prophetic event could happen at any time. Most seem to interpret this from using their understanding of the English translation. Paul said he was planning to go up with the Christians to heaven at the rapture. Paul wasn't mistaken, God very well could have had Jesus return in Paul's lifetime. Don't forget that not even Christ knew when his return would happen. We should live like Paul by expecting the Rapture to happen today or tomorrow. Paul knew that the Rapture was the next prophetic event (in the Church Age) so since it could have happened before he died, it could have happened the very day Paul wrote 1 Thes 4. Soon in English has many meanings, but that won't help us determine what the Greek means. One of the meanings of "soon" in Greek means "quickly." One could argue that the word 'soon' in Greek can be translated quickly. That would mean that the Rapture will happen quickly, whenever it happens. There are other interpretations for soon.

 

[HealthyShape]

... because the time is near" simply means that the next prophetic event could happen at any time.

"The time is near" simply means "the time is near". "These are the last days" simply means "these are the last days".

If they wanted to say "it can happen any time", they would say "it can happen any time", not "it will happen soon". The meanings are different.

 

[WPM]

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son
Heb 1:2

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

We are not talking about specific hour or specific day in the first century, but the NT is clear - it had to happen soon.

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative].

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative].

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

 

[WPM]

"The time is near" simply means "the time is near". "These are the last days" simply means "these are the last days".

If they wanted to say "it can happen any time", they would say "it can happen any time", not "it will happen soon". The meanings are different.

Our view of time is completely different from God's. There is a big difference between God’s heavenly eternal perspective and our earthly temporal perspective, something you do not seem to grasp. The phrases “a long time” and “a short time” are all subject to the one talking, their perspective and the subject matter under discussion. From man's perspective 2000 years is a long time. From God's perspective it is not. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2).

We either look at the events of life from God’s heavenly perspective or from man's earthly perspective. As humans, we tend to look at things from a natural, earthly, temporal standpoint. That is why we miss the deep meaning of heavenly truths.

For someone waiting at a bus stop for a late bus on a cold damp winter’s day, 20 minutes is a long time. To someone enjoying intimacy with their sweetheart, 20 minutes is so quick.

 

[HealthyShape]

Our view of time is completely different from God's. There is a big difference between God’s heavenly eternal perspective and our earthly temporal perspective, something you do not seem to grasp.

The New Testament was written to be read by people, not to be read by God. Therefore our view of time was take into consideration, why would not be?

 

[HealthyShape]

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative].

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand [Gr. eggizō]: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative].

Are you saying that this is not talking about the literal physical future coming of the Lord but rather Titus coming to Jerusalem and AD70?

Those verses are not meant to be about our future, but about the original audience' near future. Titus or 70 AD or "physical" is nowhere in the text, but the timing is roughly one generation.

The 66-70AD events are our historical interpretation, because we live after these events and we see nothing more fitting.

 

[WPM]

The New Testament was written to be read by people, not to be read by God. Therefore our view of time was take into consideration, why would not be?

Hello! We know who the author is. He tells us how He views time. It's completely different to which we do. So ignore that is to ignore the sense of statements He makes in regard to time. After all, Moses instructs in Psalms 90:3-5: “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.”

2 Peter 3:8-9 reinforces this thought: “beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack (or slow) concerning his promise, as some men count slackness (slowness).”

Preterists like yourself want to ignore this. The phrases “a long time” and “a short time” are all subject to the one talking, their perspective and the subject matter under discussion. From man's perspective 2000 years is a long time. From God's perspective it is not. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2).

The objective and informed Bible student will see the contrast between the thousand years in Revelation 20 which represents a long time and Satan's little season which represents a short period of time near the end.

 

[WPM]

Those verses are not meant to be about our future, but about the original audience' near future. Titus or 70 AD or "physical" is nowhere in the text, but the timing is roughly one generation.

The 66-70AD events are our historical interpretation, because we live after these events and we see nothing more fitting.

Are 40 years a short or long time to man?

 

[WPM]

The New Testament was written to be read by people, not to be read by God. Therefore our view of time was take into consideration, why would not be?

Most Bible-believing Christians rightly take such predictions from the Holy Spirit pertaining to Christ’s return like “quickly,” “shortly” and “near” as expressing time from God’s eternal standpoint, not man’s natural position. Amils equally take teaching and metaphoric phrases like the “thousand years” in Revelation 20 that expressly runs from from the first resurrection till a period of severe persecution before the literal physical return of Jesus, and the general resurrection/judgment as an actual literal lengthy time period, which we are now in. This corresponds with Matthew 25:14, 19-30 which describes the same intra-advent period and associated events. This is notably described by Jesus as “a long time.”

 

[HealthyShape]

Hello! We know who the author is. He tells us how He views time. It's completely different to which we do. So ignore that is to ignore the sense of statements He makes in regard to time. After all, Moses instructs in Psalms 90:3-5: “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.”

2 Peter 3:8-9 reinforces this thought: “beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack (or slow) concerning his promise, as some men count slackness (slowness).”

Preterists like yourself want to ignore this. The phrases “a long time” and “a short time” are all subject to the one talking, their perspective and the subject matter under discussion. From man's perspective 2000 years is a long time. From God's perspective it is not. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2).

The objective and informed Bible student will see the contrast between the thousand years in Revelation 20 which represents a long time and Satan's little season which represents a short period of time near the end.

God is able to understand the words like "generation", "soon", "end times", "will not taste death until" and how human readers understand those.

Trying to explain all these verses away with "it is written in God's language" is a bit silly. In such a case, we could not rely on any word in the New Testament.

 

[HealthyShape]

Are 40 years a short or long time to man?

The New Testament writings were written in various different times and some quite close to 66 AD.

So, when Paul, Peter, James, John write "soon", it is not full 40 years. In most cases, it is just few years between the writing and the 66-70 AD events. But it was roughly 40 years since the preaching of Jesus.

 

[HealthyShape]

Most Bible-believing Christians rightly take such predictions from the Holy Spirit pertaining to Christ’s return like “quickly,” “shortly” and “near” as expressing time from God’s eternal standpoint

You already said that. There are also plenty of verses without "soon" or "near", like:

"There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

or

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

or

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

 

[WPM]

God is able to understand the words like "generation", "soon", "end times", "will not taste death until" and how human readers understand those.

Trying to explain all these verses away with "it is written in God's language" is a bit silly. In such a case, we could not rely on any word in the New Testament.

Are 1000 years a long time?

 

[WPM]

The New Testament writings were written in various different times and some quite close to 66 AD.

So, when Paul, Peter, James, John write "soon", it is not full 40 years. In most cases, it is just few years between the writing and the 66-70 AD events. But it was roughly 40 years since the preaching of Jesus.

Stop avoiding. Are 40 years a long time?

 

[WPM]

You already said that. There are also plenty of verses without "soon" or "near", like:

"There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

or

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

Are Preterists able to see and embrace context, and let the Bible speak for itself?

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here (namely Peter, and James, and John), which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here (namely Peter, and James, and John), which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mar 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here (namely Peter, and James, and John), which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luk 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
Luk 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

While some give a good argument for Jesus speaking about Pentecost here, it seems more likely (in context) that He was talking about His transfiguration. There is nothing here that would suggest AD70, which Preterist are obsessed with.

or

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

This is simply alluding to the last days that Jesus ushered in.