You are so full of yourself. Pride comes before a fall.
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false
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Okay, fair enough; I say the same of you.
Actually I agree with this promise, of course, but again, the issue is the understanding of what it actually means "sit upon" this "throne" to all generations. And now the same applies to "last days," which is spoken of by the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 1:2... "...in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son..."
You're welcome to your opinion, as I have said many times.
...to disregard your posts about this from now going forward. I mean, I may or may not, which is my prerogative. <smile>
Not true, but fair enough. But regarding Matthew 19:28 in particular, as I have said many times, Jesus's "sitting on his glorious throne" in "the new world" is a very different thing that what you woodenly suppose it to be. That's the problem. Yours, of course, but the problem it is.
No, I... kind of think you're embarrassing yourself. <smile> By acting the ass... (and this is most certainly not the first time). But to each his own.
In the wooden ~ or metal, or plastic, or whatever other material... see what I did there? ~ sense you are thinking of David's throne, no one is. No one, Davy.
Grace and peace.
Davy
Well-Known Member
No, that is a lie from men's doctrines.
The Revelation 20, Zechariah 14, Isaiah 24:22, Revelation 22:14-15, John 5:28-29, and Revelation 3:9 Scriptures are just a few of the many examples of the wicked still existing after Christ's future return.
I don't care what men's doctrines call the Biblical evidence of what I'm saying, Premill or whatever. It is what is actually... written... in God's Word that counts, not men's attempts to categorize everything into tethers.
Do you know what a tether is? It's a rope tied to a post, and it only allows whatever is tied to it to reach out only a certain distance. That is what men's traditions do, they tied a tether on the believer. It is comparable to Christ's parable that you don't put the 'new wine' in old bottles lest they break. You put the 'new wine' in 'new bottles' so both are preserved. That's what men's traditions are, like old bottles.
You are only pointing that to yourself by your Biblical illiteracy.
What? Is using terms like "cognitively dissonant" supposed to make you sound educated, or something? I assure you, my cognitive abilities are not dissonant. But I do know how to compose dissonant music for film and TV! That's mostly what film action music is.
For you to be able to understand that above Scripture by Apostle Paul, you would first have to have understood about the 'crept in unawares' compared to simple people that have not had their opportunity to hear The Gospel yet. I'd almost bet that your preachers tell you all the time that everyone during this present world has had opportunity to hear The Gospel and believe. That's lie. Many haven't yet, even the Jews which Paul showed that God spiritually blinded away... from The Gospel so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles! (Rom.11).
The following Scripture is for AFTER Christ's future return, for during His future reign of Revelation 20:
Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Why are only those leftovers of the nations that will have come up against Jerusalem at the end (Armageddon) be left? For those who understand what this present world is about with its temptations by the devil, it should be obvious why that will happen. Many will be DECEIVED, which is who those leftovers of the nations represent. That means then... those DESTROYED among them represent who? Those destroyed on the day of Christ's coming will be the actual servants of the devil, and who are NOT DECEIVED. They know who they follow (the devil). It is so... strange that so many brethren do not realize that Satan has his own elect just like God and Lord Jesus has His elect.
Another example of those of Satan's elect, the foreigner crept in unawares among the Jewish elders and chief priests and scribes that provoked the multitude to yell out, "Crucify Him!", just like how modern mob infiltrators work to stir up crowds of people. By the time of Jesus' 1st coming, the Pharisees and priests and scribes had been taken over by Canaanites and descendants from Esau.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV
Egypt today is an Islamic nation. The majority there do not recognize Jesus of Nazareth as The Son of God, The Christ. They only see Jesus as a prophet, like Moses, etc. It makes sense then in that future time after Christ's future return, that some of those nations who traditionally reject Lord Jesus will continue in their religious tradition even AFTER Jesus has returned, so that there is no excuse. Thus no rain on their lands, their continued rebellion being handled the hard way by Lord Jesus, and there's... the "rod of iron" idea of Psalms 2 and Revelation 12:5 that it is promised Lord Jesus will REIGN with in that future time after His coming.
Uh oh. <smile> The destruction of the wicked happens because of the judgment... being on the wrong side of it (on Jesus's left; Matthew 25:41-46).
Well, as a result of the judgment, they enter into the second death. They are sent away by Christ, and they depart. Neither their body nor their spirit is destroyed in the sense of annihilation, but rather that they are brought to complete ruination. And will not be with us in the new heaven and new earth.
No, they just were, and then... well, see above. Remember what Jesus said... "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29). For those who have done evil, having been resurrected to it, they will enter into this judgment, and there remain for eternity. <shudder> Away from the new heaven and new earth, in a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a tormented existence to be sure, in the sense of absolute anguish and without hope of escape or redemption. <shudder>
Grace and peace to you, Scott.
You're a nit picker for sure.
They are destroyed with an everlasting destruction, at the second coming, when He comes in that Day, they perish in fire, die and are resurrected to be judged all in the same Day, you know it is true.
I am quoting the scripture, it says they experience 'everlasting destruction' and they go into eternal punishment.
An eternal punishment implies it is never ending punishment, they will never get out. Some people immediately jump on the idea of 'everlasting destruction' with objections, happened to me several times on various forums, just quoting scripture gets some people upset. I just laugh.
Do you realize that the Day when Christ comes is the resurrection of all and the day of judgement, a lot of people don't agree, they believe in a second judgment by God later on as in after a 1000 years delay, after the return of Christ, which is error.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Davy
Well-Known Member
But the Book of Revelation and Book of Zechariah with Chapter 14 does not exist in YOUR Bible. You have TORN it out. So why should any God-fearing Bible believer heed the above?
LOL! Well, I like for things to be clear and unambiguous and correct, yes... <smile>
Right, but you seem to be getting the order wrong, and ~ just in this assertion at face value ~ seem to be misunderstanding what this "everlasting destrction," and their "perishing in fire" really are.
You are, yes. <smile> Again, no cut-off intended.
Well I don't know about "upset," but what you say and how you say it is... ambiguous. It's quite possible I'm not understanding correctly exactly what you're saying and exactly what you mean. But that's not because I'm stupid... <smile>
I do, yes. "An hour" (John 5:28), yes.
Okay, grace and peace to you.
Some destruction verses related to death and hell. Destruction in scripture implies and or both physical death and spiritual death.
Please stop saying it is something else, as it can be ambiguous, as shown in these verses.
Acts 25:16
To them I answered, ‘It is not the custom of the Romans to deliver any man to destruction before the accused meets the accusers face to face, and has opportunity to answer for himself concerning the charge against him.’
1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
Leviticus 27:29
No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Romans 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Philippians 3:18-20
New King James Version
18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well I think that is enough verses to show this
Please stop saying it is something else, as it can be ambiguous, as shown in these verses.
Acts 25:16
To them I answered, ‘It is not the custom of the Romans to deliver any man to destruction before the accused meets the accusers face to face, and has opportunity to answer for himself concerning the charge against him.’
1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
Leviticus 27:29
No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Romans 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Philippians 3:18-20
New King James Version
18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well I think that is enough verses to show this
Well, here are some more for your enjoyment to study
- 1 Timothy 6:9
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:1
Destructive Doctrines
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:3
By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:6
and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making the man example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Not always. In different contexts, yes, one or the other. But the second death is not physical; they are not... well, not annihilated. Many are... will be, of course... resurrected to judgment. Whether you agree or disagree with this, I'm not sure.
"here are some more for your enjoyment to study"... Do you mean to imply, Scott, that I haven't studied? Surely not... <smile>
"Please stop saying it is something else, as it can be ambiguous"... It is what it is. No offense intended, of course, Scott, but the ambiguity here seems to be coming from you, as I have said.
Grace and peace to you.
Pinseeker, you seem to be looking to dispute about words here.
and
Is there a chip on your shoulder begging for me to push it off?
What with the snarkyness going on.
"here are some more for your enjoyment to study"... Do you mean to imply, Scott, that I haven't studied? Surely not... <smile>
And not going to respond to this banter anymore.
I am just not built that way, it is not me, not how I think.
Ephesians 5
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For [a]this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For [a]this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Nope. Not to "dispute," per se, but words are important, no?
Of course not.
You're reading that into it. Not that you mean to be, but in a venue like this, the communication roles are completely reversed at times ~ the receiver has to apply his or her own non-verbal communication to what has just been said by the other person. And that often leads to real communication issues... miscommunication.
I didn't mean anything by it other than what is was. There was never any "banter" on my part; I don't do "banter." You seemed to be making that very implication, insinuating that very thing. So, I asked if you were, to which... you could have just answered, "no," Scott. But suit yourself, certainly.
Grace and peace to you.
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