Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[NotTheRock]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

 

[HealthyShape]

What is your source for studying preterism? Because there may be some good arguments against some poor/sketchy website versions of preterism, but those may not work against some well articulated version of preterism.... So, it is a bit subjective.

 

[IndianaRob]

There's full preterism where everything is centered around 70 AD, incuding the second coming and what they say about the milenium. Pretty much all of that full preterist view is wrong.

Then there's full preterism where everything was fulfilled at the cross and resurrection with the resurrection being the second coming. This is a minority view and has been badly damaged by the other full preterism.

I don't know of any books to point you to, sorry.

 

[Jay Ross]

If you read the Bible and compare what has been prophesised in it, then you may see the historical evidence that either supports or contradicts that understanding of the Prophecy.

Take for instance the Daniel 8 prophecy of the Little Horn being given armies to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts for 2,300 days, i.e. prophetically for 2,300 years.

The Book of the Mcabees presents the story that this prophecy happened around 160 BC, however if you ask the question, "Has the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts stopped yet?", then the answer is no. The Israelites, God's earthly hosts, are still being trampled today as is evident by the Islamic desire to kill all Jews that are presently living.

The fourth beast in collusion with the Little Horn have presently 7 religions through which they are speaking blasphemy against God trying to prove that the gods that they worship are more powerful than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that Judaism and Christianity also worship.

If you ask the right question, then you can see that Preterist hold to the wrong understanding of what has and will happen with respect to what God has foretold to us will happen.

I believe that the Preterist's understanding of prophetic scriptures is a man/devil made fabrication to distort what God has told us will be.

Keep reading the scripture and asking God for the right understanding of His recorded words.

Shalom

 

[3 Resurrections]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

The Scriptures themselves tell us which prophecies were fulfilled and which were not. Daniel was told to "seal up" the prophecies he was given until "the time of the end" (Dan. 12:4 & 9) which was going to be the "latter days" of Israel as a people (Dan. 10:14) when the power of that holy people would be shattered (Dan. 12:7) - which it was in AD 70.

But in Revelation, there is only the one verse (Rev. 10:4) where John is told to "seal up the prophecies which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not". That is because those particular prophecies given by the seven thunders were to be reserved for generations yet to come after John's days (including our future). For all the rest of Revelation's prophecies, the seals were broken as a symbol that they were soon to be fulfilled in John's days. That first-century generation was "the time of the end" for the ethnic people of Israel which Daniel's "sealed up" prophecies had pointed forward to. They were being unsealed in John's days.

Zechariah 14:16 prophesied about the continued record of history taking place in a "year to year" progress of time after Christ's second coming return to the Mount of Olives in Zech. 14:4-5. At present, we are living in that "year to year" progress of time, waiting for the last bodily resurrection event at the final third coming of Christ, as Paul listed them in sequential order in 1 Cor. 15:22-24. The Full Preterists do not acknowledge this.

 

[KUWN]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

There is a doctor's dissertation on the internet that demonstrates that the date of the writing of Revelation was around 95 AD. If you can handle a dissertation you can get your answer. I guarantee you he has put an end to preterism.

https://www.pre-trib.org/media/k2/assets/Documents/hitchcock-dissertation.pdf

Don't speculate just read the facts. The only possibility for Preterism to be true, is for Revelation to have been written before 70 AD. But, even so, the Preterist position is very weak. Reading doctoral dissertation to arrive at the truth is one of the best ways to keep you from going astray. I have read plenty of these dissertations, and I don't believe everything i read. You will have an authoritative answer to your question about Preterism, at least the date of Revelation.

 

[ScottA]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

Referring to the day that He came for the house of Israel, Jesus broke it down in this way, saying, "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected" (Luke 13:32). In which He included the coming day--the times of the Gentiles--that sheep fold He "must also bring"; and the third day referring to the resurrection (perfection).

But the simple (biblical) fact is: "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8). Meaning, no complete fulfillment at 70AD. Biblically impossible.

 

[Douggg]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

In the bible, there are a total of 15 time of the end time frames of events given. Those events have not been fulfilled yet.

One of the time frames is Ezekiel 39:9 of 7 years that will follow the latter day/latter years Gog/Magog attack on Israel. All of the time of the end time frames fit within that 7 years.

Gog's armies will be destroyed and a huge grave site created for the burial of the bodies. Ezekiel 39:11-16

Since that grave site does not currently exist, nor has ever existed - it proves that the full preterist view is invalid.

The Gog/Magog event and what follows is still future.

 

[Bladerunner]

In the bible, there are a total of 15 time of the end time frames of events given. Those events have not been fulfilled yet.

One of the time frames is Ezekiel 39:9 of 7 years that will follow the latter day/latter years Gog/Magog attack on Israel. All of the time of the end time frames fit within that 7 years.

Gog's armies will be destroyed and a huge grave site created for the burial of the bodies. Ezekiel 39:11-16

Since that grave site does not currently exist, nor has ever existed - it proves that the full preterist view is invalid.

The Gog/Magog event and what follows is still future.

View attachment 69446

Yes, Either Preterist or half Preterist that is within the Amillennialism is wrong. If you want to talk about it one needs to start with the Main topic on why you believe the future has already happened?

 

[Truth7t7]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

There are so many different sects its hard to nail full preterism down however they almost all deny a literal future resurrection of the believer and the future second coming of Jesus Christ

I see the majority of (Full Preterist) claiming the resurrection of believers is seen when a person accepts salvation and they are raised from the dead spiritually

I see the majority of (Full Preterist) claiming the second coming of Jesus Christ takes place at a person's individual personal death, when their soul goes to be with the Lord

Conclusion: Full Preterism is a false heretical cult in denial of a future literal resurrection of the believer and a future literal second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just a few dishonorable mentions there are several

 

[Lambano]

Personally? I'm skeptical of Full Preterism 'cuz this don't look like the New Heavens and New Earth, where every tear has been dried. Meet the New Earth. Same as the Old Earth. That promise has yet to be realized.

So, when do we experience the New Heaven and New Earth? The Church has over time "spiritualized" the promise of Resurrection as something that occurs on a different plane of existence, e.g. we "go to Heaven" when we die. As NT Wright points out in Surprised By Hope (which I recommend) that there are several problems with this spiritualization. First, it disconnects us from the original (Jewish) hope of the Kingdom of God as understood and proclaimed by Jesus and the Apostles. Second, it trivializes Jesus's own resurrection. Third, this worldview promotes an escapist view that diverts God's people from having to care about the problems of this Age. Things like poverty, hunger, injustice, violence... About living under the Kingship of Messiah NOW.

I'm not convinced that there is historical evidence that the Church was raptured and there were mass resurrections in 70 AD. Certainly no evidence in the writings of the post 70 AD Church Fathers. In fact, Preterism implies that the Church today is descended from those whom Jesus "Left Behind" in 70 AD. I suppose that would explain much...

 

[Scott Downey]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

I don't see why full preterism is in any way attractive.
It is not in accordance with scriptures that tell us for example of the coming Day of Judgment.
Or a new earth which is full of righteous inhabitants.

There is the problem that evil still happens in our world today and strife and suffering, sickness and death.

The last enemy to be destroyed is DEATH, and people today get sick, age and die. That proves all the 'former things' are still being experienced and remembered


Rev 21
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4

And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

8 But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would pay little attention to anything a full preterist says, as they are corrupted in their thought process.
I have talked with them and it always comes back around to this idea we are living on the New Earth today.

 

[Behold]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled.

Hebrews 13:9......(KJV) says that many are caught up in "doctrines of Devils"......
These are man made religious theories that pretend to be true.

Here are a few.

MaryCult
Calvinism
Christian Science
Islam
Preterism.

So, a simple way to realize that Preterism is a theological Baloney sandwich being fed to religious people who are looking for "something new" to believe in, today, and something else to believe in tomorrow.......is this.

You have the Apostle John.
He lived 30 yrs, after PRETERISM stated that Jesus came back and went back.
And in the 30 Yrs after this is claimed to have happened by lying Preterists........John never said a word about Jesus showing up again.
And John, and all the Apostles, waited for JESUS to come back, every day of their LIVES.
So, would Jesus come back and not tell John?.......or.....would John know about Jesus's 2nd coming and not write about it, at all?

A.) NO

 

[3 Resurrections]

There is a doctor's dissertation on the internet that demonstrates that the date of the writing of Revelation was around 95 AD. If you can handle a dissertation you can get your answer. I guarantee you he has put an end to preterism.

Your "guarantee" of this link putting an end to preterism is a mere assumption. I found this Dallas Theological Seminary dissertation as full of holes as Swiss cheese - no disparagement to my favorite cheese intended.

To be equally impartial, I also find Dr. Kenneth Gentry's dissertation to have quite a few holes in it. His book "Before Jerusalem Fell" really needs some revision to tighten the proof of an early date composition for Revelation, which from its internal evidence was written somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60. No earlier, and no later.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Personally? I'm skeptical of Full Preterism 'cuz this don't look like the New Heavens and New Earth, where every tear has been dried. Meet the New Earth. Same as the Old Earth. That promise has yet to be realized.

No, these present conditions of the New Heavens and New Earth are not the same as the old. You are presuming that "every tear has been dried" means no more conditions in the entire world which would cause someone to weep. That idea forgets the context in which this sorrowful weeping would occur. Christ Jesus spoke of a particular period of persecution of His disciples by the Jewish Sanhedrin councils which would be part of "the beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8 cp. Luke 218-19). That particular period of "sorrows", begun by Jewish persecution of Christ's disciples in the first century, would come to an end when the ethnic nation of Israel was shattered and its temple destroyed by AD 70. By God destroying the disciples' first-century persecutors, that "beginning of sorrows" would come to an end. Tears of sorrow for that particular period of persecution would all be dried when God avenged His own servants by slaying their persecutors.

Isaiah 65's description of the New Heavens and New Earth still included the birth of children, physical death for all still occurring, the presence of sinners, building, harvesting, prayers ascending to God, etc. All of which NHNE conditions exist for us today. Just as in Revelation 22, where there would still be sinners and sinful activity going on outside the open gates of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:14-15) in the conditions of the New Heavens and New Earth which Revelation 21:1 referred to.

Hebrews 12:22 spoke about this New Jerusalem - "ye have come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem" at the time in which this book of Hebrews was written. The New Jerusalem was a then-present reality even for the first-century readers of Hebrews. We are not waiting for these NHNE Jew Jerusalem conditions to arrive in our future; they are already here, as we anticipate Christ's final coming return and the last bodily resurrection event.

I'm not convinced that there is historical evidence that the Church was raptured and there were mass resurrections in 70 AD. Certainly no evidence in the writings of the post 70 AD Church Fathers. In fact, Preterism implies that the Church today is descended from those whom Jesus "Left Behind" in 70 AD. I suppose that would explain much...

Only bodily-resurrected saints were "raptured" to heaven in AD 70 at Christ's return. The living saints who had not yet died remained on earth to continue the growth of Christ's kingdom in this world. For those Christians to write proof of those mass resurrections of the saints in AD 70, they would have had to break open the tombs of all those known to be saints to observe their absence. A bodily-resurrected, glorified saint has no need for their casket or tomb to be broken open before they can exit that grave. A glorified, bodily-resurrected Christ left His sealed sepulchre without the stationed guards over that tomb noticing anything at all unusual - until the next morning when the angel of the Lord had rolled back the stone.

 

[HealthyShape]

The living saints who had not yet died remained on earth to continue the growth of Christ's kingdom in this world.

Would not that break the promise:

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3

?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I would pay little attention to anything a full preterist says, as they are corrupted in their thought process.
I have talked with them and it always comes back around to this idea we are living on the New Earth today.

The New Heavens and the New Earth are not the period on the end of the sentence of human history. They are a semi-colon in the middle of the sentence. Those who don't realize the blessings of the NHNE conditions we currently live under today in the promised growth of the kingdom of God in this world tend to be morose and pessimistic in their outlook of the effectiveness of the Holy Spirit's ongoing work in this world. Christ was much more optimistic in His promises that all power had been given unto Him in heaven and in earth, and this power was available to the disciples (and to us) to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Would not that break the promise:

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3

?

All the Twelve disciples had physically died or had been martyred by the time AD 70's bodily resurrection occurred. They were all "raptured" to heaven with the returning Christ at that time. So no, Christ did not break His promise to them.

Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles longed to be part of that coming bodily resurrection at Christ's return. "To know him, and the power of his rising up, and the mutual participation of his sufferings, being rendered conformable to his death; If somehow I may arrive at the rising up of the dead..." (Philippians 3:10-11 SLT). Paul wanted to be physically dead, soon enough in time for him to arrive at and participate in that coming bodily resurrection and judgment event that he had told both Felix and Timothy was "about to be" (Acts 24:15 and 2 Tim. 4:1).

 

[Scott Downey]

The New Heavens and the New Earth are not the period on the end of the sentence of human history. They are a semi-colon in the middle of the sentence. Those who don't realize the blessings of the NHNE conditions we currently live under today in the promised growth of the kingdom of God in this world tend to be morose and pessimistic in their outlook of the effectiveness of the Holy Spirit's ongoing work in this world. Christ was much more optimistic in His promises that all power had been given unto Him in heaven and in earth, and this power was available to the disciples (and to us) to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

There is no evangelizing when the new earth and heavens are created. That is something not found in man's recorded history is it.

When the first earth and heavens pass away with a great noise, there is no more living flesh on the earth as it is burned with fire and dissolved. Believers are taken up into the air, off the earth. Then the earth is regenerated, and it is the age of the resurrection, and there is no more marriage (all marriages cease, no more babies born) and people are like the holy angels, and they do not get evangelized, they do not need saving do they! You are therefore greatly [h]mistaken.

Mark 12

18 Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 “Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife.”

24 Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore [g]mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly [h]mistaken.”

Luke 20

27 Then some of the Sadducees, who deny that there is a resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 28 saying: “Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, having a wife, and he dies without children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. And the first took a wife, and died without children. 30 And the second [g]took her as wife, and he died childless. 31 Then the third took her, and in like manner the seven [h]also; and they left no children, and died. 32 Last of all the woman died also. 33 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife does she become? For all seven had her as wife.”

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”

2 Peter 3

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

For the New earth and new heavens to be here, requires, the resurrection of all the dead and the final judgment.

 

[HealthyShape]

All the Twelve disciples had physically died or had been martyred by the time AD 70's bodily resurrection occurred. They were all "raptured" to heaven with the returning Christ at that time. So no, Christ did not break His promise to them.

There is no proof that all the twelve died by AD 70. It is actually known only about Peter and James.