WHO IS THE ROCK? JESUS OR PETER

[NayborBear]

Christ said that Peter is the "rock" of "His (Christ's) Church!"
So Peter founded Christ's Church here on earth during "this" generation!

 

[ScottA]

[Mat 16:18-19 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

[Psa 18:2 KJV] 2 The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, [and] my high tower.

[Psa 62:6 KJV] 6 He only [is] my rock and my salvation: [he is] my defence; I shall not be moved.

[Psa 18:31 KJV] 31 For who [is] God save the LORD? or who [is] a rock save our God?

Jesus is the rock. Jesus would build his church.

[Gal 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Peter was given an apostleship to Israel, so in a sense the church was founded upon Peter.

Along with this apostleship, Peter was given authority to loose and bind.

[Jhn 20:23 KJV] 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

Peter would have the authority to loose and bind sins. This begs the question as to whether this pertained to when the kingdom on earth was established.

Peter being the rock that Jesus would build His Church upon, is the "lie" causing "strong delusion" spoken of and foretold by Paul.

 

[CTK]

Christ said that Peter is the "rock" of "His (Christ's) Church!"
So Peter founded Christ's Church here on earth during "this" generation!

I don't see it the same way... please consider---Jesus blesses Peter for a revelation the Father gave him—“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God”—and then entrusts him with “the keys,” which in Jewish usage mark a steward/teacher’s role (Matthew 13:52; Luke 11:52). In that setting, “binding and loosing” is legislative/interpretive authority—teaching what is permitted and what is not—rather than priestly absolution in that moment. Peter is thus a first steward of the revealed confession, not the cornerstone; Christ remains the foundation and builder (1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20). And the same authority is soon shared with the wider apostolic body (Matthew 18:18), which is exactly what we see in Acts 15 when Peter helps “loose” the Gentiles from the yoke of the Judaizers. In short: the church is built on the revealed truth of Jesus’ identity; Peter is entrusted to steward and teach that truth.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Matt 16:18 . . I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it.

Now, this "church" that the Lord spoke of: What's so special about his that
there's no chance of it ever being confined in a sinner's prison?
_

 

[Behold]

The NT church was formed when Christ appeared to Israel. The believed he was their Messiah

Jesus was crucified because the Jews, rejected their Messiah.

So, once Christ offered His Body and Blood to God, ..... = God then offered it to the Gentiles, specifically.

Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles".......and if you read Acts 28:28, you will read where Paul tells the Jews, that He's taking the Gospel to the Gentiles, who will "hear" it.

The church the body of Christ was formed

Acts 2 has 3000 Jews becoming born again Christians.
Paul was not yet called by Jesus to be an apostle at that time.

The Cross of Christ birthed the NT Church......as you have to have a SAVIOR dying on The Cross to begin the "church"., as that is how and where it began.

 

[Doug]

I don't see it the same way... please consider---Jesus blesses Peter for a revelation the Father gave him—“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God”—and then entrusts him with “the keys,” which in Jewish usage mark a steward/teacher’s role (Matthew 13:52; Luke 11:52). In that setting, “binding and loosing” is legislative/interpretive authority—teaching what is permitted and what is not—rather than priestly absolution in that moment. Peter is thus a first steward of the revealed confession, not the cornerstone; Christ remains the foundation and builder (1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20). And the same authority is soon shared with the wider apostolic body (Matthew 18:18), which is exactly what we see in Acts 15 when Peter helps “loose” the Gentiles from the yoke of the Judaizers. In short: the church is built on the revealed truth of Jesus’ identity; Peter is entrusted to steward and teach that truth.

[Mat 16:18-19 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The keys will be given to Peter to lose or bind in the prophetic earthly kingdom.

 

[Doug]

Jesus was crucified because the Jews, rejected their Messiah.

Yes, but there was a believing remnant who received him and formed that church

 

[Doug]

So, once Christ offered His Body and Blood to God, ..... = God then offered it to the Gentiles, specifically.

Paul's gospel was for Jew and Gentiles

 

[CTK]

[Mat 16:18-19 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The keys will be given to Peter to lose or bind in the prophetic earthly kingdom.

Ok, you copied the verse in Matthew 16:18-19, and then followed it up with a 16 word opinion.... would you mind supporting or elaborating why you believe what you do? Thanks.

 

[Doug]

Acts 2 has 3000 Jews becoming born again Christians.
Paul was not yet called by Jesus to be an apostle at that time.

Those Jews were added to the NT church not the body of Christ. They believed that Jesus was their Messiah.

 

[Doug]

Ok, you copied the verse in Matthew 16:18-19, and then followed it up with a 16 word opinion.... would you mind supporting or elaborating why you believe what you do? Thanks.

Sure, glad to

[Daniel 7:18 KJV] 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

[2Samual 7:13 KJV] 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Believing Israel will inherit an earthly kingdom. 2 Samual is the Davidic covenant.

[Mat 4:17 KJV] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

This prophetic kingdom was being offered to Israel. The kingdom was at hand.

[1Corinthians 15:23 KJV] 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This is the kingdom Peter was given the keys to. Peter will be resurrected to enter the kingdom at the coming of Christ.

 

[CTK]

Sure, glad to

[Daniel 7:18 KJV] 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

[2Samual 7:13 KJV] 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Believing Israel will inherit an earthly kingdom. 2 Samual is the Davidic covenant.

[Mat 4:17 KJV] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

This prophetic kingdom was being offered to Israel. The kingdom was at hand.

[1Corinthians 15:23 KJV] 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This is the kingdom Peter was given the keys to. Peter will be resurrected to enter the kingdom at the coming of Christ.

I do not believe you understood what I was asking you... no problem, thanks.

 

[pandaflower]

Christ Jesus is the rock. Alone. Not Peter.
1 Corinthians 10
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under athe cloud, all passed through bthe sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same cspiritual food, 4 and all drank the same dspiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Matthew 16:18: Is Peter the Rock of the Church? - Becoming Christians

Discover the true meaning of Matthew 16:18—Is Peter really the rock of the Church? Uncover powerful biblical evidence showing that Jesus Christ is the true foundation.

becomingchristians.com

 

[Behold]

Yes, but there was a believing remnant who received him and formed that church

To become a Christian, you "must be born again".

This Happens, becasue The Cross of Christ , that is John 3:16......has started.

Do we see God offering Jesus as the sin bearing Savior, when Jesus was preaching to the Jews for 3.5 yrs?
We do not.

So, when Jesus was first offered as the "sin bearer".....as John 3:16, is when the Church began, and that was just as Soon as Jesus died on the Cross and Rose again.
The reason that Paul's Gospel is "The preaching of THE CROSS"........"we preach Christ Crucified", is becasue this is how and why and where CHRISTIANITY begins.
This is the BIRTH of the NT "church"...as if you have no Cross, you have no Christianity, and because OF The Cross of Christ and His Resurrection, you have the START of the NT Church.

 

[Bladerunner]

Well this all depends on your view.

The body of Christ was formed after Paul was converted. Before that, he persecuted the church, so there had to be a church before the body of Christ. The church before Paul was the believing remnant of Israel. Peter's apostleship was for the remnant church.

Paul persecuted the Christians at the various Christian churches around the area. The Church that Jesus built is a spritiual church full of souls of those that believe in the Gospels of Jesus Christ according to 1 Cor 15:3-4. There have been many remnants of Israel since the beginning. God has saved many who during the OT times who believed and was obedient during their lifetimes thus given the mercy and Grace of GOD himself. Paul's teachings were for both Jew and Gentile.

Could Peter still be considered a foundation for the body of Christ? It depends on how you view the verse below

[Eph 2:20 KJV] 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

The churches was the foundation of the apostles. Rem, the Prophets ended with John the Baptist. Rem, also Jesus is a Prophet, King and Priest from the Melchizedek order. Jesus is the corner stone not of the individual churches for those are made of man. He is the corner stone of His Church, His body, His Wife to be.

It could be Peter is a foundation of the body of Christ. It could also be the apostles and prophets in the body of Christ. Either way Christ is THE FOUNDATION.

There is only one way and the Bible makes it very clear, Jesus is the foundation of His Church, His Body.

 

[Doug]

I do not believe you understood what I was asking you... no problem, thanks.

I would be happy to answer your question s, so please elaborate and restate it for me

 

[Doug]

This Happens, becasue The Cross of Christ , that is John 3:16......has started.

John 3:16 is for Israel

John 3:16 is a wonderful verse. We are to believe in him as well as Israel. There is no cross in this verse however. read it again to see we know about the cross and therefore insert it when it isn't there.

Israel had to believe in his name for eternal life. They had to believe he was Christ, the Son of God not the cross Look at John 3:18 and read that they had to believe on his name.

 

[Doug]

The reason that Paul's Gospel is "The preaching of THE CROSS"........"we preach Christ Crucified", is becasue this is how and why and where CHRISTIANITY begins.

Salvation is by the cross not at it

All that was accomplished by the cross was not revealed until Christ gave it to Paul.

This is how Peter preached the cross...........[Act 2:23 KJV] 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:....................Peter didnt preach salvation by the cross, but rather he convicted them of killing Jesus

 

[Doug]

The Church that Jesus built is a spritiual church full of souls of those that believe in the Gospels of Jesus Christ according to 1 Cor 15:3-4.

Is this the church Jesus said he would build in Matthew 16:18 you are talking about? If so what gospel did they have to believe?

 

[Doug]

The churches was the foundation of the apostles. Rem, the Prophets ended with John the Baptist.

The prophets didnt end with John only prophecy about the kingdom on earth.......the kingdom was at hand.....and also maybe prophecy concerning Jesus's suffering and death ended.....Jesus fulfilled all of his prophecies about his death and resurrection