Understanding PARABLES

[ScottA]

Parables in the scriptures are not the same as parables elsewhere.

Parables elsewhere may have multiple meanings too--even a hidden meaning, or not. But in the scriptures parables have their own structure not at all common elsewhere. In no other literature are there parables that include a greater spiritual word from God, not obvious at face value. In fact, in parables in scripture the object of comparison, is never the greater subject. So, yes, the lesser moral saying and comparison may have a simple meaning and benefit--but that is not why they are a part of the eternal word of God. The moral, worldly part ends when the world ends, but the greater spiritual part which is not always obvious, is true and relative forever.

Jesus gave the answer to why God speaks in parables, saying, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables" (Mark 4:11). In other words, the scriptures--the word of God--is protected and limited to those who are God's. Paul then elaborates, saying, "the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14).

But the reason I have posted this thread...is that even here, there are many who endlessly debate the simple, moral words of parables as if that is the greater spiritual message, which they are not. The scriptures themselves tell us that. Which, sadly, shows a lack of understanding the word of God--which is spirit.

Jesus gave examples of how the meaning of parables is to be stated--which He did by translating. An example would be The Parable of the Sower, where the object is "seed", but then He explained or translated the meaning saying, "The seed is the word of God." That one seems simple--even foolish to talk about. But there is a thread currently being debated about The Unjust Steward, where the debate continues to be about money, when money was simply the object of the parable, having nothing to do with the greater meaning. And every Christian needs to know that the object of God's parable language--is not the greater reason for it being written.

While we are at it--please, PLEASE notice in the Mark 4:11 passage above it says "all things come in parables." Meaning, everything available to the evils among the general public--"all" scripture comes "in parables"...therefore, having greater spiritual meaning.

 

[Hiddenthings]

But the reason I have posted this thread...is that even here, there are many who endlessly debate the simple, moral words of parables as if that is the greater spiritual message, which they are not. The scriptures themselves tell us that. Which, sadly, shows a lack of understanding the word of God--which is spirit.

While we are at it--please, PLEASE notice in the Mark 4:11 passage above it says "all things come in parables." Meaning, everything available to the evils among the general public--"all" scripture comes "in parables"...therefore, having greater spiritual meaning.

A surface reading of your words seems to contain a contradiction. Maybe you can explain further.

 

[ScottA]

A surface reading of your words seems to contain a contradiction. Maybe you can explain further.

There is a simple, though often profound, context associated with many parables that is good, however limited. But that is not the purpose of the common parables, or the overall parable nature of all scripture. In other words, God has indeed given in the scriptures words to live by in this world--but this world has a greater purpose--and even if God has given us tips on how to endure life in this world--that is not the priority or the greater purpose for parable usage in the scriptures.

God's greater purpose with those things that are often overlooked in the parable language of the scriptures, is revelation--revelation of what was, is, and is to come--not actually how to conduct ourselves meanwhile.

 

[Hiddenthings]

There is a simple, though often profound, context associated with many parables that is good, however limited. But that is not the purpose of the common parables, or the overall parable nature of all scripture. In other words, God has indeed given in the scriptures words to live by in this world--but this world has a greater purpose--and even if God has given us tips on how to endure life in this world--that is not the priority or the greater purpose for parable usage in the scriptures.

God's greater purpose with those things that are often overlooked in the parable language of the scriptures, is revelation--revelation of what was, is, and is to come--not actually how to conduct ourselves meanwhile.

I ask you if you could see your contradiction in your original post?...I even highlighter it for you...happy for to have another go!

If you cannot discern the original context and audience, what hope do you have of bringing these lessons to 2025? I suggest, no hope.

 

[ScottA]

I ask you if you could see your contradiction in your original post?...I even highlighter it for you...happy for to have another go!

If you cannot discern the original context and audience, what hope do you have of bringing these lessons to 2025? I suggest, no hope.

You simply did not understand what I wrote. Read it again.

Meanwhile, I have elaborated as you asked, though it was not warranted based on your noted distain.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Parables in the scriptures are not the same as parables elsewhere.

Dear ScottA,
The scripture below gives us additional information on why Christ taught in parables:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

The truth of Christ's New Covenant teachings are veiled from this world and this includes "babes in Christ" who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Babes remain carnally minded, spiritual blind and unconverted. They are still waiting on the Lord to "come again" and convert them. While a babe waits, they do so on the "earth". But after Christ converts a babe, He will gather them to "heaven" so that they will dwell with Him.

Mat 24:29-31 shows the conversion event when an Elect person is gathered to heaven.

Note: In Christ's spiritual language, unbelievers dwell in the "sea", babes dwell on the "earth" and converted believer dwell in heaven. These three "spirit" words represents a person spiritual state of being and are not literal locations.

At the time that the Apostles walked with Christ, they had only received the Early Rain and were babes. They could not understand the parables. But after Christ converted them on the Day of Pentecost (Latter Rain & judgment), they could finally begin to understand them.

Not only does Christ teach His spiritual truths by parables, he also teaches them by analogies (a form of parables), prophecies and types.

Here is a "type" that teaches when Christ removes the veil from a person's eyes:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual teachings of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they brought a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when a person is called to be a saint and when they enter the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for babes who walk by sight (the flesh/marred spirit with a carnal & religious spiritual nature) rather than by faith & the Holy Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their marred spirit & carnal mind still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better to them:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the works of Christ.

Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Peter makes this statement because the believers (babes) to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we can know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, the man will come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith and by the Spirit. After the man dies and is resurrected from the grave, He will receive the reward of life during the final age where he will reign with Christ.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

One last point; all the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation.

Joe

 

[Bob]

Thank you for your post.

Perhaps you are saying, and I find it quite true, that parables need some “soak time,” and reflection, and even a new perspective from a pastor. It also helps to actively live one’s faith and then return for additional insights.

Question: Perhaps the Garden of Eden story is one of the greatest parables ever written. It could have been a central teaching for Israelite children for centuries. (Ok, many in this forum will vehemently disagree.)

Blessings.

 

[ScottA]

Thank you for your post.

Perhaps you are saying, and I find it quite true, that parables need some “soak time,” and reflection, and even a new perspective from a pastor. It also helps to actively live one’s faith and then return for additional insights.

Question: Perhaps the Garden of Eden story is one of the greatest parables ever written. It could have been a central teaching for Israelite children for centuries. (Ok, many in this forum will vehemently disagree.)

Blessings.

From your comment, perhaps you are replying to @FaithWillDo and rightly so, he has given a good word of explanation.

Paul also referred to that time between the early and the latter rain (the water below and the water above the firmament), as seeing "through a glass dimly, but then face to face." As this refers to parables in scripture, yes, in the beginning we walk only by faith, not fully seeing. So, yes, we then benefit from the moral of many parables not even aware there is a greater spiritual message to much of scripture hidden from those who cannot yet see fully, while especially hidden from those who are not first drawn by God as not chosen, for He knows who are His and who are of the devil.

As for the Garden of Eden--it is a preview of everything that follows. And if God making man in his own image were no parable also--then there are no parables, only empty words given to the dead. But indeed--it is all parables (Mark 4:11)!

 

[ScottA]

@Hiddenthings ...This:

The scripture below gives us additional information on why Christ taught in parables:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

The truth of Christ's New Covenant teachings are veiled from this world and this includes "babes in Christ" who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Babes remain carnally minded, spiritual blind and unconverted. They are still waiting on the Lord to "come again" and convert them. While a babe waits, they do so on the "earth". But after Christ converts a babe, He will gather them to "heaven" so that they will dwell with Him.

Mat 24:29-31 shows the conversion event when an Elect person is gathered to heaven.

Note: In Christ's spiritual language, unbelievers dwell in the "sea", babes dwell on the "earth" and converted believer dwell in heaven. These three "spirit" words represents a person spiritual state of being and are not literal locations.

At the time that the Apostles walked with Christ, they had only received the Early Rain and were babes. They could not understand the parables. But after Christ converted them on the Day of Pentecost (Latter Rain & judgment), they could finally begin to understand them.

Not only does Christ teach His spiritual truths by parables, he also teaches them by analogies (a form of parables), prophecies and types.

Here is a "type" that teaches when Christ removes the veil from a person's eyes:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual teachings of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they brought a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when a person is called to be a saint and when they enter the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for babes who walk by sight (the flesh/marred spirit with a carnal & religious spiritual nature) rather than by faith & the Holy Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their marred spirit & carnal mind still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better to them:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the works of Christ.

Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Peter makes this statement because the believers (babes) to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we can know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8).

 

[FaithWillDo]

@Hiddenthings ...This:

Dear ScottA,
I looked at the website you posted. However, there is nothing there that is true. The end-time prophecies presented in Mat 24 and the book of Revelation are spiritual teachings that present the steps of the pathway to salvation that all the Elect (since Paul's death) will travel. Those prophecies teach absolutely nothing about world events that happen at the literal end of this age.

This truth is made very clear in the verses below:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

The Elect (the "blessed") will keep the sayings of the book because the "sayings" are presenting the spiritual steps that the Elect will take which will led them to their moment of conversion/salvation. John states that the "time is at hand" in the first and last chapters and even says that the prophecy is NOT SEALED. John says this because the spiritual events were already taking place in the lives of the Elect when he received the vision.

In Rev 22:7, Christ even says that He will come quickly, and He does come quickly to each of His Elect before they die. Christ's second coming is NOT a one-time outward world event - it is a spiritual event that occurs when the Kingdom of Heaven comes to an Elect person.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Because the Second Coming of Christ is a spiritual event that come upon each of the Elect at their moment of conversion/salvation, John describes it as a reoccurring event:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned.

Before I was converted in 2005, I used to teach end-time prophecy in the church I attended. At that time, I understood end-time prophecy very much like those on this forum do. But after Christ healed my spiritual blindness and the scales fell from my eyes, I quickly learned that everything I had been teaching was completely false.

If a person could just accept the few scriptures that I presented above, the foundation of their understanding of end-time prophecy would start crumbling to its death.

The veiled nature of the parables is no different from the veiled nature of end-time prophecy. To understand what Christ is teaching in the parables, one must have their spiritual blindness healed. And as I stated in my first post, the parables are mostly teaching the steps of the pathway to salvation - the same steps that end-time prophecy teaches.

Joe

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
I looked at the website you posted. However, there is nothing there that is true. The end-time prophecies presented in Mat 24 and the book of Revelation are spiritual teachings that present the steps of the pathway to salvation that all the Elect (since Paul's death) will travel. Those prophecies teach absolutely nothing about world events that happen at the literal end of this age.

This truth is made very clear in the verses below:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

The Elect (the "blessed") will keep the sayings of the book because the "sayings" are presenting the spiritual steps that the Elect will take which will led them to their moment of conversion/salvation. John states that the "time is at hand" in the first and last chapters and even says that the prophecy is NOT SEALED. John says this because the spiritual events were already taking place in the lives of the Elect when he received the vision.

In Rev 22:7, Christ even says that He will come quickly, and He does come quickly to each of His Elect before they die. Christ's second coming is NOT a one-time outward world event - it is a spiritual event that occurs when the Kingdom of Heaven comes to an Elect person.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Because the Second Coming of Christ is a spiritual event that come upon each of the Elect at their moment of conversion/salvation, John describes it as a reoccurring event:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned.

Before I was converted in 2005, I used to teach end-time prophecy in the church I attended. At that time, I understood end-time prophecy very much like those on this forum do. But after Christ healed my spiritual blindness and the scales fell from my eyes, I quickly learned that everything I had been teaching was completely false.

If a person could just accept the few scriptures that I presented above, the foundation of their understanding of end-time prophecy would start crumbling to its death.

The veiled nature of the parables is no different from the veiled nature of end-time prophecy. To understand what Christ is teaching in the parables, one must have their spiritual blindness healed. And as I stated in my first post, the parables are mostly teaching the steps of the pathway to salvation - the same steps that end-time prophecy teaches.

Joe

Joe,

Good--we are very close!

The website was not my post, but rather my signature line. No coincidence I should think. We have much to collaborate on.

I am not sure what exactly you were referring to on my website, but you have made many of the same arguments that I too have made and are stated in my books. What is perhaps missing or misunderstood, is that I was not claiming that the prophecies of the book of Revelation were sealed. But rather that, just as it is written, what the seven thunders uttered was not to be written or revealed at that time, but would only be revealed when the mystery of God would be finished as he declared to his servants the prophets...not until the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, marked by 'time no longer."

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe,

Good--we are very close!

The website was not my post, but rather my signature line. No coincidence I should think. We have much to collaborate on.

I am not sure what exactly you were referring to on my website, but you have made many of the same arguments that I too have made and are stated in my books. What is perhaps missing or misunderstood, is that I was not claiming that the prophecies of the book of Revelation were sealed. But rather that, just as it is written, what the seven thunders uttered was not to be written or revealed at that time, but would only be revealed when the mystery of God would be finished as he declared to his servants the prophets...not until the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, marked by 'time no longer."

Dear ScottA,
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I looked at your webpage a second time but I still can't say that I agree with what I read.

I noticed that you mentioned Rev 10 and the Seven Thunders and the "little book". I will briefly explain what that chapter is teaching.

Here are the first verses of that chapter:

Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

In verse 1, the "mighty angel" represents Christ.

In verse 2, the "little book" is the same as the "roll of the book" which comes from Ezekiel chapters 2 & 3. The roll of the book mentioned in Eze 2:10 is the same as the "little book". The book represents Christ, the Word of God. Written within and without on the book are "lamentations, and mourning, and woe."

In verses 3 & 4, it mentions the "seven thunders". The number seven is a spirit word that means "perfection". The spirit word "thunder" means the voice of God. The Seven Thunders represents the "perfect voice of God", His perfect Word.

Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him tht liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

In verse 5, the "sea" represents unbelieving mankind and the "earth" represents babes who are apostate. Both groups represent the whole of unsaved mankind.

In verses 6 & 7, it mentions that there should be "time no longer". This is the same as the when the "end of the ages" come upon an Elect person.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

With the sounding of the seven trumpet, the Elect person will be converted and saved. In other words, the seventh trumpet is the conversion event when Christ returns with the Latter Rain and judgment to convert the person from being a child of the Devil to being a child of God. This is also when the person is gathered to heaven from the earth (this represents the change to their state of being, not a literal location change).

The mystery of God that is referred to in verse 7 is "Christ in you" and is from this scripture:

Col 1:27 Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Here are the final verses from chapter 10:

Rev 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

In verses 8 & 9, the Elect person takes the little book from Christ and eats it up. In their mouth, it tastes as sweet as honey since the person is now converted and has eyes that can see the true Christ.

In verse 10, the little book (since it is full of lamentations, and mourning, and woes) makes the Elect person's belly turn bitter. This happens to the Elect person because they are now converted and have Christ in them - and just as Christ was rejected by this world, they, too, are rejected by this world.

In Ezekiel chapter 3, the same thing happens to Ezekiel after he eats the book and then give his testimony to the Nation of Israel.

Eze 3:2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll. 2 And he said unto me, son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness. 4 And he said unto me, son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.

After Ezekiel did as the Lord commanded, Israel rejects his words and Ezekiel went his way in bitterness.

Eze 3:14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me.

What Ezekiel experienced also happens to all the converted Elect when they present God's Word to the unconverted babes in the church. I have experienced it many, many times on this forum and others.

None of what is presented in Revelation chapter 10 is unfulfilled prophecy. All the Elect will eat the little book and have their belly turn bitter before they die.

Joe

 

[Hiddenthings]

God's greater purpose with those things that are often overlooked in the parable language of the scriptures, is revelation--revelation of what was, is, and is to come--not actually how to conduct ourselves meanwhile.

Scott, this is so far from the truth that it is difficult to comprehend your delusion.

From the beginning I’ve sensed something off in your approach, it hasn’t sat right at all. You know that feeling in your gut when you discern someone’s outlook is false? That’s exactly what your perspective on the Word gives off - strongly.

“Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it” (Rev. 1:3).

Christ taught in parables and prophetically so that we might first read, then study and digested, and finally apply and keep (conduct ourselves meanwhile). This is the true goal of faithful Bible study, something you clearly neglect. Perhaps you are influenced by inner voices or false impressions, but whatever it is, it is not aligned with the careful study of Christ’s words that allows us to see life from God’s perspective.

Your words reveal your true character and knowing this helps me make sense of your entire approach. I missed this upon first reading your words which is why I asked you to clarify - my mistake.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Thank you for your post.

Perhaps you are saying, and I find it quite true, that parables need some “soak time,” and reflection, and even a new perspective from a pastor. It also helps to actively live one’s faith and then return for additional insights.

Question: Perhaps the Garden of Eden story is one of the greatest parables ever written. It could have been a central teaching for Israelite children for centuries. (Ok, many in this forum will vehemently disagree.)

Blessings.

It's the seedbed of the entire writ.

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I looked at your webpage a second time but I still can't say that I agree with what I read.

I noticed that you mentioned Rev 10 and the Seven Thunders and the "little book". I will briefly explain what that chapter is teaching.

Here are the first verses of that chapter:

Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

In verse 1, the "mighty angel" represents Christ.

In verse 2, the "little book" is the same as the "roll of the book" which comes from Ezekiel chapters 2 & 3. The roll of the book mentioned in Eze 2:10 is the same as the "little book". The book represents Christ, the Word of God. Written within and without on the book are "lamentations, and mourning, and woe."

In verses 3 & 4, it mentions the "seven thunders". The number seven is a spirit word that means "perfection". The spirit word "thunder" means the voice of God. The Seven Thunders represents the "perfect voice of God", His perfect Word.

Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him tht liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

In verse 5, the "sea" represents unbelieving mankind and the "earth" represents babes who are apostate. Both groups represent the whole of unsaved mankind.

In verses 6 & 7, it mentions that there should be "time no longer". This is the same as the when the "end of the ages" come upon an Elect person.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

With the sounding of the seven trumpet, the Elect person will be converted and saved. In other words, the seventh trumpet is the conversion event when Christ returns with the Latter Rain and judgment to convert the person from being a child of the Devil to being a child of God. This is also when the person is gathered to heaven from the earth (this represents the change to their state of being, not a literal location change).

The mystery of God that is referred to in verse 7 is "Christ in you" and is from this scripture:

Col 1:27 Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Here are the final verses from chapter 10:

Rev 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

In verses 8 & 9, the Elect person takes the little book from Christ and eats it up. In their mouth, it tastes as sweet as honey since the person is now converted and has eyes that can see the true Christ.

In verse 10, the little book (since it is full of lamentations, and mourning, and woes) makes the Elect person's belly turn bitter. This happens to the Elect person because they are now converted and have Christ in them - and just as Christ was rejected by this world, they, too, are rejected by this world.

In Ezekiel chapter 3, the same thing happens to Ezekiel after he eats the book and then give his testimony to the Nation of Israel.

Eze 3:2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll. 2 And he said unto me, son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness. 4 And he said unto me, son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.

After Ezekiel did as the Lord commanded, Israel rejects his words and Ezekiel went his way in bitterness.

Eze 3:14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me.

What Ezekiel experienced also happens to all the converted Elect when they present God's Word to the unconverted babes in the church. I have experienced it many, many times on this forum and others.

None of what is presented in Revelation chapter 10 is unfulfilled prophecy. All the Elect will eat the little book and have their belly turn bitter before they die.

Joe

Joe,

Your account is as good or better than I have seen, yet not perfect, suffering still from the aftermath of false teachings causing many to explain away all that is true--which in you is very little. But I will have to take them one at a time, for the influence of errors is ages old. Before I begin, I would ask that you refrain from being offended--I know you are well studied and are advanced in the Spirit--but what we are embarking on is written as what was under restraint until He who restrains is taken out of the way. If you were born a generation ago, we would not even be able to have this conversation--which is not a conversation so much as it is a revelation. Which I do not say lightly or loosely, but as one chosen and appointed by God to a task. More later perhaps--I'll start here:

1. The "sea" in Revelation 10:5 refers rather to the waters above the firmament (while the "land" refers to that which is made manifest in the world out of the waters below the firmament). And you are right to refer to Christ in these passages as He who has one foot on the land and one on the sea, for He is firstfruits and all things are at His hand.

2. As for Revelation 10:6-7 and "time no longer", it is not referring to "the end of the ages", for it is before the end, and only when the seventh angel "is about to sound."

3. As for "the mighty angel" and "the little book", how are they both Christ (according to your explanation)? I do understand you sighting Ezekiel, for both prophesy the same event--each, Ezekiel and John, both confirming the other.

4. As for what is presented in Revelation 10--you are just now correct. For it is just recently that the seventh angel is about to sound.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe,

Your account is as good or better than I have seen, yet not perfect, suffering still from the aftermath of false teachings causing many to explain away all that is true--which in you is very little. But I will have to take them one at a time, for the influence of errors is ages old. Before I begin, I would ask that you refrain from being offended--I know you are well studied and are advanced in the Spirit--but what we are embarking on is written as what was under restraint until He who restrains is taken out of the way. If you were born a generation ago, we would not even be able to have this conversation--which is not a conversation so much as it is a revelation. Which I do not say lightly or loosely, but as one chosen and appointed by God to a task. More later perhaps--I'll start here:

1. The "sea" in Revelation 10:5 refers rather to the waters above the firmament (while the "land" refers to that which is made manifest in the world out of the waters below the firmament). And you are right to refer to Christ in these passages as He who has one foot on the land and one on the sea, for He is firstfruits and all things are at His hand.

2. As for Revelation 10:6-7 and "time no longer", it is not referring to "the end of the ages", for it is before the end, and only when the seventh angel "is about to sound."

3. As for "the mighty angel" and "the little book", how are they both Christ (according to your explanation)? I do understand you sighting Ezekiel, for both prophesy the same event--each, Ezekiel and John, both confirming the other.

4. As for what is presented in Revelation 10--you are just now correct. For it is just recently that the seventh angel is about to sound.

Dear ScottA,
I no longer get offended when anyone disagrees with me so you can speak freely to me in your posts.

In your understanding of Rev 10 and all the other teachings of the book, you must apply these two scriptures that begin the book and end the book.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

If a person's understanding contradicts what these two verses teach, they need to reconsider their understanding. Why? Because all the Elect of this age will "keep the sayings of the prophecy".

The Elect will keep all seven trumpets, all seven seals, all seven vials, the prophecy of the Two Witnesses, all of chapter 13 where they will become a Seven Headed beast (apostate believer). They will also have the second beast (spirit of anti-Christ) indwell them and they will receive the mark of the beast.

All the prophecies presented in the book teach certain aspects of the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel to their moment of conversion. This most certainly includes a time of being under Satan's deceptions and following his false gospel. If a person does not keep ALL the sayings, they are not one of the blessed.

The only event that is unfulfilled and is still in the future is the bodily resurrection from the grave when all mankind will appear before Christ at the White Throne (Rev 20:11-15) All the Elect will experience this moment, too, but only after they have physically died and have been resurrected.

Your understanding of the book of Revelation is carnal and not spiritual. The events happen within the Elect because this is where the Kingdom of Heaven comes to them. The events are not one-time outward events that only some will experience.

Also, the mighty angel is Christ and the little book is also Christ as the Word of God. It is the Word of God that an Elect believer consumes at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This event happens after Christ heals the converted person's spiritual blindness. This is what allows them to consume the little book.

The spiritual fulfillment of the Lord's Supper is also the same event as the Marriage Supper.

Paul experienced the Marriage Supper of the Lamb/Lord's Supper/the eating of the little book when He was converted:

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

All the Elect will experience eating the little book just as Paul did.

Joe

 

[Jack]

Luke 16:19-26
The rich man died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hell ,he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
I no longer get offended when anyone disagrees with me so you can speak freely to me in your posts.

In your understanding of Rev 10 and all the other teachings of the book, you must apply these two scriptures that begin the book and end the book.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

If a person's understanding contradicts what these two verses teach, they need to reconsider their understanding. Why? Because all the Elect of this age will "keep the sayings of the prophecy".

The Elect will keep all seven trumpets, all seven seals, all seven vials, the prophecy of the Two Witnesses, all of chapter 13 where they will become a Seven Headed beast (apostate believer). They will also have the second beast (spirit of anti-Christ) indwell them and they will receive the mark of the beast.

All the prophecies presented in the book teach certain aspects of the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel to their moment of conversion. This most certainly includes a time of being under Satan's deceptions and following his false gospel. If a person does not keep ALL the sayings, they are not one of the blessed.

The only event that is unfulfilled and is still in the future is the bodily resurrection from the grave when all mankind will appear before Christ at the White Throne (Rev 20:11-15) All the Elect will experience this moment, too, but only after they have physically died and have been resurrected.

Your understanding of the book of Revelation is carnal and not spiritual. The events happen within the Elect because this is where the Kingdom of Heaven comes to them. The events are not one-time outward events that only some will experience.

One thing at a time.

Above you say that "the Elect will travel to their moment of conversion" as if meaning "each one in his own order"--that much is good and correct. But then you go on to say what "is unfulfilled" until a "future" "bodily resurrection from the grave"...as if not "each one in his own order", but in mass, yet in the future. Perhaps you should explain just how those two statements reconcile.

 

[ScottA]

In your understanding of Rev 10 and all the other teachings of the book, you must apply these two scriptures that begin the book and end the book.

That sounds like a formula of perhaps the best practices of men. However, I have a better formula, called being "caught up to the third heaven." I wasn't going to jump right into that, but felt the need to be clear on this point.

 

[ScottA]

Also, the mighty angel is Christ and the little book is also Christ as the Word of God. It is the Word of God that an Elect believer consumes at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This event happens after Christ heals the converted person's spiritual blindness. This is what allows them to consume the little book.

The spiritual fulfillment of the Lord's Supper is also the same event as the Marriage Supper.

Paul experienced the Marriage Supper of the Lamb/Lord's Supper/the eating of the little book when He was converted:

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

All the Elect will experience eating the little book just as Paul did.

You have not shown how "All the Elect will experience eating the little book just as Paul did", let alone how John did. Nor have you shown how all Elect since Pentecost ate what was under restraint--that is not what Paul wrote of He who restrains. You also have not shown how all the Elect came to know "the mystery of God as he declared to his servants the prophets" but did not declare it. Or how it was reported that the seventh angel had sounded in the hearing of any Elect who gave witness, not even John or Paul, for they did not declare it as having come to them. But John rather reported that the angel had not come except as prophecy, and that he was not allowed to even write all that was revealed to him. In short, you have not shown reconciliation of all the scriptures.

Now, I know how all these things reconcile--but you have not shown that you are clear on it. But I fear that we have already made it a contest, which it need not be. In which case, I would ask you to consider whether you know these things from God--or have only determined that you have.