Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ

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Aunty Jane

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My point is that they don't need to.
Jesus said that they do.....and for a very good reason....it “separates the wheat from the weeds”...as it is supposed to when each one of us is judged by showing God’s appointed judge, exactly where our heart is.....caught in the act of being who we truly are in God’s eyes, not our own.

Jesus words in Matt 7:21-23 show that the majority will be receiving a stinging rebuke and rejection amid a lot of excuses...none of which will alter the outcome. There are no second chances and no fence to sit on. It’s decision time.
 

PS95

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What are doctrines? Are they not beliefs? Do we not all subscribe to them according to what we believe is true? How important are our beliefs? Where do we get them? Are these not the things that divide us?

The question is why are there so many dividing beliefs?...and all supposedly coming from one source...
Did Jesus know this would happen? YES! He predicted it. So if he told us about the “wheat and the weeds”...how do we tell the difference?

The fact is, that many are claiming to be part of “the body of Christ” and if God is the one who chooses them, would he not make sure that they held to one unalterable truth? What would be the point of allowing them all to hold different beliefs if there is only one truth? Does that make logical sense to you?

Not doctrine but belief....about who God is....who Jesus is....what role does the Holy Spirit play?
Do we have an immortal soul? What happens when we die? Does it matter what morality we uphold?

Then this describes the whole of Christendom!
Isn’t the remedy to divorce yourself from that accepted yet divided “establishment” and follow Jesus only?

“By their fruits you will recognize them”......Not what doctrines they believe but what kind of people they produce.....godly, obedient people who do not make excuses to break the law of the Christ.
Oh my. It is Ok to use that scary word, DOCTRINE, Jane. Really, you're intelligent and know that it only means a belief. I remember well how JWs avoid certain words out of fear. Doctrine is not a bad word.
The alternative to these various groups who dont agree on every single thing is to force them to do so. Maybe they could become like the JWS?
By threat- agree with us & teach it to others or get out and be shunned!! Even if we know you are right and we are wrong--- we are going to teach it and believe it until the men behind the curtain say otherwise!!! Those men speak for God so if He wants us to believe and teach lies, we will! See how l loving we are with our unity? o_O
 

PS95

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Jesus said that they do.....and for a very good reason....it “separates the wheat from the weeds”...as it is supposed to when each one of us is judged by showing God’s appointed judge, exactly where our heart is.....caught in the act of being who we truly are in God’s eyes, not our own.

Jesus words in Matt 7:21-23 show that the majority will be receiving a stinging rebuke and rejection amid a lot of excuses...none of which will alter the outcome. There are no second chances and no fence to sit on. It’s decision time.
But JWs Do teach a second chance, Jane.
Won't these lovely people here be resurrected sinless if they die before Armageddon according to Jws? So they can be taught how to obey God in the paradise earth by JWS over the 1000 year judgment?
 

Aunty Jane

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Hello @Aunty Jane = you are included in this post.

God's POV is that we overcome division by these:
a.)
b.)
c.)

@St. SteVen and @Aunty Jane = Your Mission, should you accept it, is to find a,b,c in the Scriptures which declare God's POV on healing the division(s).
Is this a mission impossible? :hmhehm I remember a time when I thought so, but not anymore.
If you find more then a,b,c - please add them

Thank You
I believe I already outlined a number of them in post # 113 above....
You see Jesus stated that the majority will cling to false doctrine, whereas the ”wheat” cling to the truth in spite of what the established but divided church system teaches. Truth is more important than blind faith and conformity for the sake of not being viewed as a heretic.

Putting it in an A, B or C formula, the three main doctrines that divide the “wheat” from the “weeds” are the three foundational beliefs that were carried over from the apostate Catholic church and found their own foundation also in Protestantism.....none of which are taught in Scripture unless it is taken completely out of context or mistranslated to make Scripture say what it never did.

A) Is the subject we are not allowed to discuss. Not once did Jesus claim to be what the established church teaches. That being the case “the only true God” (John 17:3) has been substituted and supplanted with another “god”, in a case of mistaken identity. They undertook the worship of a “god” that also worships the true God himself....
John 20:17....after his resurrection Jesus said to Mary Magdalene....
“Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Jesus has “brothers”, his Father has “sons”. Your sons cannot be your brothers.

He is also “the one mediator between God and men”.....(1 Tim 2:5)....a “mediator” being the facilitator of communication between two estranged parties....God cannot be one of the parties. And we don’t need a mediator between us and Jesus.

B) That we have an “immortal soul” that departs from the body at death to go instantly to another place.
There is no such thing as an immortal soul because those words do not appear side by side in any passage of Scripture. Souls are mortal...they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

C) The destinations for the “souls” that are claimed to be immortal.
Heaven was never a place designed for human souls to live because a “soul” in the Bible is never a disembodied spirit. Adam “became” a “soul” when God started him breathing. (Gen 2:7)
So that eliminates “hell” as well......even though there are people here who relish the thought of it....it is absolutely the opposite of Jehovah’s perfect justice. No law of God carried a penalty that involved suffering, especially not for all eternity, with no way to repent.
 

PS95

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Is this a mission impossible? :hmhehm I remember a time when I thought so, but not anymore.

I believe I already outlined a number of them in post # 113 above....
You see Jesus stated that the majority will cling to false doctrine, whereas the ”wheat” cling to the truth in spite of what the established but divided church system teaches. Truth is more important than blind faith and conformity for the sake of not being viewed as a heretic.

Putting it in an A, B or C formula, the three main doctrines that divide the “wheat” from the “weeds” are the three foundational beliefs that were carried over from the apostate Catholic church and found their own foundation also in Protestantism.....none of which are taught in Scripture unless it is taken completely out of context or mistranslated to make Scripture say what it never did.

A) Is the subject we are not allowed to discuss. Not once did Jesus claim to be what the established church teaches. That being the case “the only true God” (John 17:3) has been substituted and supplanted with another “god”, in a case of mistaken identity. They undertook the worship of a “god” that also worships the true God himself....
John 20:17....after his resurrection Jesus said to Mary Magdalene....
“Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Jesus has “brothers”, his Father has “sons”. Your sons cannot be your brothers.

He is also “the one mediator between God and men”.....(1 Tim 2:5)....a “mediator” being the facilitator of communication between two estranged parties....God cannot be one of the parties. And we don’t need a mediator between us and Jesus.
God the Father is the God of Jesus- the trinity affirms that
Yes, God the "Father" is our Father-- ... and Jesus is our brother- That agrees with the trinity too.
Yes, Jesus is our only mediator- not men of the watchtower. His blood is between God the Father and our sins forever.

I think you don't understand that the trinity understands two persons ( Father and Son) who are distinct but One- .Or you would not ask silly questions. --I have a silly question for you!

Perhaps you can tell me how many payments God requires for sins? One or two?
I have been told ONE by Jws.
That leaves me with a question though.
Did Jesus' blood pay for your sins?
Wouldn't that be enough? One payment.
So why do you teach that physically dying is how you pay for your own sins so they are acquitted?
Why two payments?
Which payment is right?
B) That we have an “immortal soul” that departs from the body at death to go instantly to another place.
There is no such thing as an immortal soul because those words do not appear side by side in any passage of Scripture. Souls are mortal...they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

C) The destinations for the “souls” that are claimed to be immortal.
Heaven was never a place designed for human souls to live because a “soul” in the Bible is never a disembodied spirit. Adam “became” a “soul” when God started him breathing. (Gen 2:7)
So that eliminates “hell” as well......even though there are people here who relish the thought of it....it is absolutely the opposite of Jehovah’s perfect justice. No law of God carried a penalty that involved suffering, especially not for all eternity, with no way to repent.
Well, Jesus said that man can not kill our soul, but only God can destroy it in Gehenna.
The Watchtower teaches that Jesus' soul went to heaven. That surprised me when I read it. It doesn't make sense along with Michael's life force went back to heaven to re- create Michael. Which is it?

We may not all agree with each other on everything but the watchtower even rarely agrees with itself.
 
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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.
Wouldn't that be divisiveness in itself though?
No. Because there is no attempt to divide when we accept others as they are.

Build bridges, not walls.

[
 

St. SteVen

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Jesus said that they do.....and for a very good reason....it “separates the wheat from the weeds”...
I thought the point was that the weeds (tares) were to be left where they were in order to be sorted out at harvest time.
How are we complying with that order when we remove them ourselves? We are losing wheat in the process.

Matthew 13:28-30 NIV
“‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds,
you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest.
At that time I will tell the harvesters:
First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned;
then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

[
 
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amigo de christo

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A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic.

Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ.

Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

]
spoken by a true progressive liberal . tribalism . whats next zenophobism .
You been sitting under the wrong stuff my friend .
Your beef is not with me , IT IS WITH HE WHO INSPIRED the pure and lovely doctrine in that bible .
And that is no place you or anyone else wants to be .
Always going around trying to make deceptoin seem as a good cause and making
those who actually speak doctrine seem as naught but haters .
You are working for the wrong one and its love and its unity . You all will not
be getting the beloved utopia and peace n safety you beleive will come from all of this .
Always remember the devil is a liar and he does not desire good for you or the world ,
BUT HE DARN SURE KNOWS how to make it seem as though he does desire good for you and for the world .
BIBLE TIME .
 
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amigo de christo

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He overlooked his own paradox
You want to know what i find most strange and so sad in these last hours upon earth .
That we have folks , like st steven , going around and doing all
to downplay the dire importance of knowing scripture .
And focusing rather on , lets just find us some common ground and unity .
That my friend is why and how FOLKS WILL TRULY BE DECEIVED .
For while we both know that satan does NOT desire the good of us , of humanity ,
HE DARN SURE can pretend HE DOES . but all the while HE is pulling folks away FROM THE TRUTH OF SCRIP
and right into the lie. AND HE SURE does make it seem as though its love and loving
and for a good cause that is best for humanity . BUT HE IS A LIAR .
BUT NOT GOD .
IN fact our saying is LET GOD be TRUE but every man a liar . STICK TO IT my friend . These days
will get worse . In churches more and more are going the way of st steven .
Its all becoming about this other unity , this other merger , this finding common ground .
AND IT DARN SURE aint UNDER GOD OR CHRIST . NO sir its omitting TRUTH and more and more truth by the day and by the hour .
The delusion is growing . Let us stay Planted in CHRIST JESUS and all biblical doctrine which is for our good .
 
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pandaflower

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St. SteVen said:
Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

No. Because there is no attempt to divide when we accept others as they are.

Build bridges, not walls.

[
Jesus built the bridge.

Heaven has a gate and a vetting process.
 

amigo de christo

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Jesus built the bridge.

Heaven has a gate and a vetting process.
and you bet this gate and this vetting process WILL NOT allow access in by means of a false sensual sin accepting
fat ol broad path unbelief accepting pile of dung . A pile of utter dung , yet many see it as love and as loving
as good and as the means that came of GOD . it came of satan who by the lustful hearts of mankind
sold them the very lie they desired to beleive all along . and it was a lie that they loved
and all who made and loved a lie , LAKE OF FIRE be their end . not a place any would desire to have gone .
 

amigo de christo

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Jesus built the bridge.

Heaven has a gate and a vetting process.
No white robe , NO ENTRANCE . Any guesses on how one even attains such a robe .
A HINT , b udda dont give it , muhammed dont give it
and all the false love of the world dont give it .
JESUS DOES . JESUS DOES .
and another jesus cannot give it . The word BELEIVE as in BELEIVE IN JESUS is quickly being omitted
from the hearts and lips of this generation . THEY RUNNING to universalism big ol fat lovey do road it cliams
is of GOD . ONLY , I KNOW WHO THE FATHER TESTIFIED OF
IT WAS JESUS THE CHRIST , not some lovey do good works it dont matter what or who one BELEIVED .
Sorry to have to report that CHRISTENDOM in large is swallowing that cup of harlot punch RIGHT DOWN
as though it be truth and it be love and it be of GOD . WHEN ITS NONE OF THE ABOVE .
But unto he who makes and loves a lie , Well the lake of fire will be their home at their end .
BUT UNTO ALL WHO LOVED THE TRUTH , WERE BORN OF GOD and BELIEVED IN JESUS THE CHRIST
their home gonna be absolutely wonderful . THANKS BE TO GOD and TO HIS CHRIST .
 

amigo de christo

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Jesus built the bridge.

Heaven has a gate and a vetting process.
JESUS did not build the bridge my friend . HE IS THE BRIDGE .
Hope that encourages you my friend . budda , muhammed and all them false religoins
THEY AINT ON THAT BRIDGE and they and their ideals WILL NEVER LEAD ONE TO THAT BRIDGE .
I sound harsh i know , i sound grave , BUT SOMEONE GOTTA DO and SAY SOMETHING .
SO , i suppose i will by grace just have to continue to do so no matter how hated i be for doing so .
CAUSE i know a secrete , one that was kept secrete from even the foundation of the WORLD
BUT WAS MADE MANIFEST . THAT ETERNAL LIFE , THE WORD that was WITH GOD and was GOD .
AND HE made it darn clear there is no other way TO THE FATHER and that one MUST BELEIVE IN HIM OR PERISH .
SEEING JESUS said it , I BANK ON IT AS BEING TRUTH .
And let us remember , JESUS dont honor any sin , so he wont be holding rainbows and hundred dollar bills yall .
THAT is another jesus and that one graves and cannot save .
 

amigo de christo

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Jesus built the bridge.

Heaven has a gate and a vetting process.
this is why for years i have also been warning us all about this building bridges
and breaking down walls WE KEPT GETTING SOLD .
IT was all a lie . they broke down walls of divisoins all right . THE WRONG ONES
they pushed OUT DOCTRINE FROM GOD in order to get everyone to just get along
and that bridge they built , OH it may sound lovely to them
BUT IT DARN sure dont LEAD TO GOD and it darn sure AINT JESUS . IT has OMITTED HIM .
I knew what was coming years ago when i first seen it at work .
I KNEW IT WOULD END THE GOSPEL , that it was there to simply merge the denominations and the false relgions
ALL INTO a concept they would all see as love and beleive was OF GOD . IT was all a lie . A lie .
WE really should have TRUSTED IN CHRIST , HIS WORDS , THE TRUTH and the TRUTH the apostels had left for us to also read in their
own letters . But men have trusted in men and hoped in men
and cursed is the man whose hope and trust is in man .
BUT BLESSED IS the man whose hope and truset was IN GOD and thus IN HIS CHRIST and IN HIS WORDS .
 

Aunty Jane

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I thought the point was that the weeds (tares) were to be left where they were in order to be sorted out at harvest time.
Yes...if you read the parable carefully and the explanation that the disciples asked for, you see who the players are and where it all takes place.

Matt 13:24-30...
“He presented another illustration to them, saying: “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. 25  While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. 26  When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. 27  So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ 28  He said to them, ‘An enemy did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29  He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.” . . . .
Vs 36-43...
“Then after dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” 37  In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38  the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39  and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40  Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in end of the age. 41  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen.”

So we have the “sower” of the “wheat” who is Jesus. And the “wheat” are identified as those who became his disciples.
“While men were sleeping” (either a spiritual drowsiness, or the death of the apostles who were acting as a restraining influence on the coming apostasy.... as either explains how Christianity came to be oversown with weeds in the first place) an “enemy” identified as “the devil” sowed these “weeds” (counterfeit wheat) in “the world”.
The “harvest time” is “the end of the age” or the removal of all that is wicked from this earth when Jesus comes as judge....and the “reapers are angels”.

How are we complying with that order when we remove them ourselves? We are losing wheat in the process.
We are not “removing them ourselves”....we are removing ourselves from being among them in “the world”, where these “weeds” have been flourishing for centuries. If the “wheat” separate themselves from the “weeds”, it is history repeating as Jesus said it would. Just as the Christians separated themselves from apostate sectarian Judaism, so Christ’s true disciples would separate themselves from its modern day counterpart...apostate Christendom. The separation is exactly what Jesus spoke about in delivering John’s Revelation.

“Babylon the great” is identified as a harlot, ‘in bed’ with those who are God’s enemies....it is of the devil’s making as a counterfeit religious system, ‘sleeping’ with the world’s political leaders in the hope of having their favour. (James 4:4) Confidently sitting atop “the wild beast” that she has been riding for centuries, having “a kingdom over the kingdoms of the world” whom the devil claimed were all his. (Rev 17:15-18; Luke 4:5-7)

Read about the fate of “Babylon the great” in the 18th chapter of Revelation.
We are told to “get out of her” if we do not want the same punishment that is about to be meted out to her.
Matthew 13:28-30 NIV
“‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds,
you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest.
At that time I will tell the harvesters:
First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned;
then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
Yes...both have grown “in the world” “together”....but at this juncture...(the time of Christ’s return) a clear separation has occurred just as it did in the first century.....the Christians eventually, completely separated from the established Jewish faith, which Jesus exposed as a hypocritical sham. (Matt 23:13-15)

The Pharisees and Sadducees were enemies of one another, but united in their condemnation of Jesus and his apostles, preaching a different way to God....Jesus was “the way, the truth and the life”.
Instead of coming out of apostate Judaism, the majority chose to stay there under the old covenant...and they are still there, and still suffering God’s abandonment all these centuries later, never having moved forward. (Matt 23:37-39) Still waiting for a Messiah who has come and gone because they rejected him.

There is a certain pride in the Jewish people that will not allow them to accept the title of “Christians”.
So even those who claim to accept Jesus as their Savior, do so under their own terms...there is still a lingering problem with gentiles. They will call themselves “Jews for Jesus” or “Messianic Jews” still clinging to their national pride as if being “Jewish” in the old way is still necessary. Paul spoke of a new kind of “Jew” who was one “on the inside with a circumcision of the heart”. (Rom 2:28-29) God showed Peter that what was once unclean in his eyes, was now accepted, as his purpose in connection with Israel was fulfilled in the person of Jesus the Christ.

Examining the Scriptures carefully and without Christendom’s blinders, yields a very uncomfortable truth for the majority....but one that is fully embraced by those who believe it, and who come into a united spiritual family who know what true peace is, in a global brotherhood that are in full agreement with one another in love.....not part of the confused world, but preaching God’s solution among the lost.
 
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Marvelloustime

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JESUS did not build the bridge my friend . HE IS THE BRIDGE .
Hope that encourages you my friend . budda , muhammed and all them false religoins
THEY AINT ON THAT BRIDGE and they and their ideals WILL NEVER LEAD ONE TO THAT BRIDGE .
I sound harsh i know , i sound grave , BUT SOMEONE GOTTA DO and SAY SOMETHING .
SO , i suppose i will by grace just have to continue to do so no matter how hated i be for doing so .
CAUSE i know a secrete , one that was kept secrete from even the foundation of the WORLD
BUT WAS MADE MANIFEST . THAT ETERNAL LIFE , THE WORD that was WITH GOD and was GOD .
AND HE made it darn clear there is no other way TO THE FATHER and that one MUST BELEIVE IN HIM OR PERISH .
SEEING JESUS said it , I BANK ON IT AS BEING TRUTH .
And let us remember , JESUS dont honor any sin , so he wont be holding rainbows and hundred dollar bills yall .
THAT is another jesus and that one graves and cannot save .
@amigo de christo
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