26 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[Scott Downey]

This is to counter Davies false teaching of ungodly survivors, left alive on earth, when Christ comes back.
He promotes that false teaching based on what he thinks of Zechariah 14, a chapter of symbolism, apocalyptic writings, not hard doctrine.

All should take note of what Christ teaches here.
Are you going to believe in Jesus words, or the words of Davy?
Or anyone else contrary to the sound words of Christ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Luke 17
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.”

22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them.

24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Matthew 24
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[WPM]

You mean CHRIST'S DOCTRINE for that is what I have covered directly from His written Word.

You are MOCKING HIS WORD OF TRUTH with your vanity of following men's stupid insane false-Jews doctrines instead.

So why don't you go back to your Jewish synagogue and report back to those blind Pharisees how you FAILED to convince but only a stupid few to believe THE FALSENESS that you push.

Why do you avoid every single biblical argument? Why is your only argument bitterness and insults?

 

[Davy]

Your doctrine is foolishness and falsehoods, your own curses fall upon you.

The real Christ warned his disciples that false christs would arise and deceive many people.
A false Christ is in opposition to the reality of What Christ said.

If you do not agree with the sound words of Christ, you know nothing and are puffed up by your fleshy mind.

Thing is, I HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SOUND WORDS OF CHRIST'S WORD directly FROM The Bible, but people like YOU keeps DENYING THEM!

 

[WPM]

Thing is, I HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SOUND WORDS OF CHRIST'S WORD directly FROM The Bible, but people like YOU keeps DENYING THEM!

The opposite is the truth.

 

[Scott Downey]

Thing is, I HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SOUND WORDS OF CHRIST'S WORD directly FROM The Bible, but people like YOU keeps DENYING THEM!

I can't help it if you choose to be ignorant.

Everyone should treat people like that in this way

Titus 3
9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second [a]admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

'Foolish disputes' come from warped individuals. And they condemn themselves by their own words.

 

[Davy]

I can't help it if you choose to be ignorant.

Everyone should treat people like that in this way

Titus 3
9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second [a]admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

'Foolish disputes' come from warped individuals. And they condemn themselves by their own words.

You really don't know how much you are actually pointing to YOURSELF with the above. You need to learn the difference in God's Word when it is giving LITERAL TRUTH vs. symbolic metaphors.

 

[WPM]

You really don't know how much you are actually pointing to YOURSELF with the above. You need to learn the difference in God's Word when it is giving LITERAL TRUTH vs. symbolic metaphors.

You spiritualize the literal and literalize the spiritual.

 

[WPM]

Thing is, I HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SOUND WORDS OF CHRIST'S WORD directly FROM The Bible, but people like YOU keeps DENYING THEM!

When are you going to address the Op? The fact you avoid it like the plague is testimony to the fact that it is watertight. You have nothing to bring to the table. The reader can see that for himself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is to counter Davies false teaching of ungodly survivors, left alive on earth, when Christ comes back.
He promotes that false teaching based on what he thinks of Zechariah 14, a chapter of symbolism, apocalyptic writings, not hard doctrine.

All should take note of what Christ teaches here.
Are you going to believe in Jesus words, or the words of Davy?
Or anyone else contrary to the sound words of Christ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Luke 17
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.”

22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them.

24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Matthew 24
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Davy, like all premillennialists, doesn't accept the clear, straightforward teachings of Jesus and of New Testament scriptures like the one you shared here. They seem to think that they somehow have a better understanding of Old Testament prophecies than Jesus and the NT authors had because Jesus and the NT authors definitely did not teach premillennialism and they often referenced OT prophecies.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When are you going to address the Op? The fact you avoid it like the plague is testimony to the fact that it is watertight. You have nothing to bring to the table. The reader can see that for himself.

He's all noise. He gets very loud in sharing his nonsensical opinions, but when he is challenged to address our arguments, he just runs away or avoids them at all costs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You really don't know how much you are actually pointing to YOURSELF with the above. You need to learn the difference in God's Word when it is giving LITERAL TRUTH vs. symbolic metaphors.

Remind us again of how you interpret the following passage. I need a good laugh...

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Davy]

Remind us again of how you interpret the following passage. I need a good laugh...

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Why don't you take the time out of your busy hot air running mouth and look up the Greek for that KJV "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 and tell me what it means per the Greekl?

Also, explain for us just HOW is it that Zechariah 14 shows Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, bringing all His 'FAITHFUL' saints with Him there, if the earth is completely destroyed on that "day of the Lord."

And just how is it that Zechariah 14:16-19 reveals there will be LEFTOVERS of the NATIONS AFTER Jesus returns that will have come up against Israel on the last day of this world and were not destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming? And how is it that Zech.14 Scripture says those unsaved leftovers will be required to come up to Jerusalem to worship The KING, Jesus Christ from year to year, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles, and if they do not, there will be no rain upon their lands!

And just what does Zech.14:16 mean when it says "year to year"? What timing does that reveal it is then? CHRIST'S FUTURE THOUSAND YEARS REIGN OVER THE UNSAVED NATIONS, the very subject of the Revelation 20 Chapter!

 

[WPM]

Why don't you take the time out of your busy hot air running mouth and look up the Greek for that KJV "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 and tell me what it means per the Greekl?

Also, explain for us just HOW is it that Zechariah 14 shows Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, bringing all His 'FAITHFUL' saints with Him there, if the earth is completely destroyed on that "day of the Lord."

And just how is it that Zechariah 14:16-19 reveals there will be LEFTOVERS of the NATIONS AFTER Jesus returns that will have come up against Israel on the last day of this world and were not destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming? And how is it that Zech.14 Scripture says those unsaved leftovers will be required to come up to Jerusalem to worship The KING, Jesus Christ from year to year, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles, and if they do not, there will be no rain upon their lands!

And just what does Zech.14:16 mean when it says "year to year"? What timing does that reveal it is then? CHRIST'S FUTURE THOUSAND YEARS REIGN OVER THE UNSAVED NATIONS, the very subject of the Revelation 20 Chapter!

More avoidance!

You have to. The Book exposes your doctrine!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why don't you take the time out of your busy hot air running mouth

How ironic for you to say this to me. LOL! You are not to be taken seriously. I may have told you that before. But, it's 100% true.

and look up the Greek for that KJV "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 and tell me what it means per the Greekl?

Your ignorance never ends. Like almost all words, it has multiple meanings. One of which is the physical elements of the universe or the sky, which is very obviously what 2 Peter 3:10-13 is referring to. If you deny that, then you'd have to deny that it's talking about the literal heavens and the literal physical earth as well. Do you want to go there? Are you that desperate to keep your doctrine afloat?

Also, explain for us just HOW is it that Zechariah 14 shows Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, bringing all His 'FAITHFUL' saints with Him there, if the earth is completely destroyed on that "day of the Lord."

And just how is it that Zechariah 14:16-19 reveals there will be LEFTOVERS of the NATIONS AFTER Jesus returns that will have come up against Israel on the last day of this world and were not destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming? And how is it that Zech.14 Scripture says those unsaved leftovers will be required to come up to Jerusalem to worship The KING, Jesus Christ from year to year, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles, and if they do not, there will be no rain upon their lands!

And just what does Zech.14:16 mean when it says "year to year"? What timing does that reveal it is then? CHRIST'S FUTURE THOUSAND YEARS REIGN OVER THE UNSAVED NATIONS, the very subject of the Revelation 20 Chapter!

How about you explain why Jesus and none of the NT authors taught Premil? They clearly had a different understanding of Zechariah 14 and other OT prophecies than you have or else they would have clearly referred to some earthly kingdom being established when Jesus returns with mortals on the earth, but we don't see any description anything like that anywhere in the NT.

 

[Davy]

How ironic for you to say this to me. LOL! You are not to be taken seriously. I may have told you that before. But, it's 100% true.


Your ignorance never ends. Like almost all words, it has multiple meanings. One of which is the physical elements of the universe or the sky, which is very obviously what 2 Peter 3:10-13 is referring to. If you deny that, then you'd have to deny that it's talking about the literal heavens and the literal physical earth as well. Do you want to go there? Are you that desperate to keep your doctrine afloat?

That's what you WANT KJV "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 to mean, but per Greek stoicheion it also has another meaning you failed to mention...

NT:4747
stoicheion (stoy-khi'-on); neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of NT:4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):

KJV - element, principle, rudiment.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


HOW do we know which meaning for Greek stoicheion used by Peter is correct? a destruction of material matter, or a destruction of a serial world age? Simple...

Firstly, let's see how other KJV Scripture brought that Greek word stoicheion into English...

Gal 4:3
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
KJV

Gal 4:9
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
KJV

Col 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
KJV

Col 2:20-22
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
KJV

Heb 5:12
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
KJV

Are any... of the above New Testament verse speaking of material elements of the earth like the periodic table of atomic weight elements? No, of course not. Yet all of those examples in red are the SAME GREEK word stoicheion.

HOW else can we know Greek stoicheion is meant in the 2 Peter 3:10 verse? By actually KEEPING THE FLOW OF THE SUBJECT THERE IN 2 PETER 3 THAT PETER WAS PREACHING ABOUT!

And what was Peter preaching about in 2 Peter 3? The THREE WORLD AGES.
1. "the world that then was"
2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now"
3. "new heavens and a new earth"

Though many don't know it, that 1st world earth age was of the time PRIOR to Lucifer's rebellion when he had been made "perfect in his ways,..." (Ezek.28). God ended that 1st world age using a flood of waters when Lucifer rebelled against Him in coveting God's Throne for himself.

No. 2 is about this PRESENT 2ND WORLD EARTH AGE, which is preserved to be destroyed by fire. (The flood of Noah's day happened within this 2nd world earth age.)

No. 3 is God's future ETERNITY, a third world earth age, the new heavens and a new earth.

QUESTION: Did God totally and completely destroy the WHOLE EARTH when He ended the time of Lucifer's original rebellion? NO, He refurbished the earth into today's... 2nd world earth age. God merely cleansed the earth's surface without destroying the earth completely.

Did God literally destroy the earth completely with the flood of Noah's day? NO.

Likewise, when God ends this present 2nd world earth age using fire, it will NOT destroy the earth completely either. The FACT that Zechariah 14:1-5 shows Christ's FEET TOUCHING DOWN UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES EAST OF JERUSALEM ON THE DAY OF HIS FUTURE RETURN is PROOF of the earth still existing on the day of His coming, which is the SAME DAY Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's what you WANT KJV "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 to mean, but per Greek stoicheion it also has another meaning you failed to mention...

LOL. The context is very clearly in relation to the physical earth and the heavens, so that means it's referring to the physical elements as well. Very simple, yet you still can't understand it because of your extreme Premil bias.

NT:4747
stoicheion (stoy-khi'-on); neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of NT:4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):

KJV - element, principle, rudiment.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


HOW do we know which meaning for Greek stoicheion used by Peter is correct? a destruction of material matter, or a destruction of a serial world age? Simple...

Firstly, let's see how other KJV Scripture brought that Greek word stoicheion into English...

Gal 4:3
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
KJV

Gal 4:9
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
KJV

Col 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
KJV

Col 2:20-22
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
KJV

Heb 5:12
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
KJV

Are any... of the above New Testament verse speaking of material elements of the earth like the periodic table of atomic weight elements? No, of course not. Yet all of those examples in red are the SAME GREEK word stoicheion.

HOW else can we know Greek stoicheion is meant in the 2 Peter 3:10 verse? By actually KEEPING THE FLOW OF THE SUBJECT THERE IN 2 PETER 3 THAT PETER WAS PREACHING ABOUT!

And what was Peter preaching about in 2 Peter 3? The THREE WORLD AGES.
1. "the world that then was"
2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now"
3. "new heavens and a new earth"

Though many don't know it, that 1st world earth age was of the time PRIOR to Lucifer's rebellion when he had been made "perfect in his ways,..." (Ezek.28). God ended that 1st world age using a flood of waters when Lucifer rebelled against Him in coveting God's Throne for himself.

No. 2 is about this PRESENT 2ND WORLD EARTH AGE, which is preserved to be destroyed by fire. (The flood of Noah's day happened within this 2nd world earth age.)

No. 3 is God's future ETERNITY, a third world earth age, the new heavens and a new earth.

What a bunch of gibberish. You are going far out of your way to avoid the obvious context of 2 Peter 3:10-13. Pathetic. The context is clearly in relation to the burning up and dissolving of material things (heavens, earth, elements).

QUESTION: Did God totally and completely destroy the WHOLE EARTH when He ended the time of Lucifer's original rebellion? NO, He refurbished the earth into today's... 2nd world earth age. God merely cleansed the earth's surface without destroying the earth completely.

Did God literally destroy the earth completely with the flood of Noah's day? NO.

Likewise, when God ends this present 2nd world earth age using fire, it will NOT destroy the earth completely either. The FACT that Zechariah 14:1-5 shows Christ's FEET TOUCHING DOWN UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES EAST OF JERUSALEM ON THE DAY OF HIS FUTURE RETURN is PROOF of the earth still existing on the day of His coming, which is the SAME DAY Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4!

Hello? When did I say anything about God annihilating the earth? Never. So, you wasted all this time arguing with a strawman. I believe He will renew the heavens and the earth by fire, resulting in the new (renewed) heavens and earth that Peter said we should be looking for in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming. He did not say we should be looking for an imaginary earthly millennial kingdom instead.

 

[Wish-it]

Also Brethren in Christ...

Don't pay attention to any Amillennialist that tries to claim that all Premill believers are on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory. If Amillennialists are confused about the origins of the false Pre-trib Rapture theory and attribute that false idea to Premill, then it shows they don't understand what The Bible teaches about at all.

The 1st century Church fathers believed in a Premill idea, which is the actual order of the written Bible Scripture. It means on the day of Christ's future return AFTER the tribulation, at that point Christ's LITERAL "thousand years" reign with His elect begins. Premill means understanding that "thousand years" as a LITERAL period, not an allegory like Origen and occultists try to claim.

Since the 1st century Church fathers held to a Premil belief, then how could they believe in a false Pre-trib Rapture theory, simply because the Pre-trib Rapture theory was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby?!?

I didn't know John Darby was around in the 1st century A.D. to preach that false Pre-trib Rapture Theory to the 1st century Church fathers; did you know that?? Yet that is exactly the STUPID idea that Amillennialist try to use against Premils, because they well know the 1st century Church fathers were all Premillennialists!

Davy, I tend agree with your premill position, but probably consider the only way to debate the amill position is using scripture. The early church fathers were after all simply believers like you and I, who could be, and would be incorrect often in their walk, like us. From my shortish look at the arguments put forward, there seems to be a number of scriptures that may dispute the amill view. It'd be a long discussion, im not sure I could devote time to currently.

 

[Wish-it]

LOL. The context is very clearly in relation to the physical earth and the heavens, so that means it's referring to the physical elements as well. Very simple, yet you still can't understand it because of your extreme Premil bias.


What a bunch of gibberish. You are going far out of your way to avoid the obvious context of 2 Peter 3:10-13. Pathetic. The context is clearly in relation to the burning up and dissolving of material things (heavens, earth, elements).


Hello? When did I say anything about God annihilating the earth? Never. So, you wasted all this time arguing with a strawman. I believe He will renew the heavens and the earth by fire, resulting in the new (renewed) heavens and earth that Peter said we should be looking for in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming. He did not say we should be looking for an imaginary earthly millennial kingdom instead.

Can we keep the debate civil without personal attacks, its a good discussion to have. Memo for all parties.

 

[Davy]

Davy, I tend agree with your premill position, but probably consider the only way to debate the amill position is using scripture. The early church fathers were after all simply believers like you and I, who could be, and would be incorrect often in their walk, like us. From my shortish look at the arguments put forward, there seems to be a number of scriptures that may dispute the amill view. It'd be a long discussion, im not sure I could devote time to currently.

No need to run me through all that. I already understand enough Bible Scripture that refutes the Amill position, and it's a lot of Bible Scripture that refutes it.

 

[WPM]

No need to run me through all that. I already understand enough Bible Scripture that refutes the Amill position, and it's a lot of Bible Scripture that refutes it.

When are you going to address the Op? When are you going to stop avoiding.