where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

[The Learner]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

I never got a straigth answer to this question. The apostles were discipled and taught by Jesus himself. Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father? You will get run arounds like Jesus is god therefore he is the Father. That is not a text in their letters where they write. Jesus is the Father.

Where in the letters did they write literally that the Holy Spirit is the Father?

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "Jesus is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "holy ghost is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

Not in ether.,

 

[The Learner]

this is dealing with oneness petecostalism

 

[Cross8527]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

I never got a straigth answer to this question. The apostles were discipled and taught by Jesus himself. Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father? You will get run arounds like Jesus is god therefore he is the Father. That is not a text in their letters where they write. Jesus is the Father.

Where in the letters did they write literally that the Holy Spirit is the Father?

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "Jesus is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "holy ghost is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

Not in ether.,

John 10:30-38

New International Version

​

30 I and the Father are one.”

 

[Earburner]

And yet at the same time, Jesus states their existence with each other in the plural. John 14:23, 28.
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make  OUR abode with him.
[24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
[25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

I understand it this way: God the Father dwelling with-IN Jesus, being together as One, they together are the Gift of the Holy Spirit to usward.

Iow's without God the Father dwelling within Jesus first (Mat. 3:16) ,
God the Father could never permanently dwell within us at all!

 

[Jack]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

I never got a straigth answer to this question. The apostles were discipled and taught by Jesus himself. Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father? You will get run arounds like Jesus is god therefore he is the Father. That is not a text in their letters where they write. Jesus is the Father.

Where in the letters did they write literally that the Holy Spirit is the Father?

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "Jesus is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "holy ghost is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

Not in ether.,

The doctrine is clearly Bible!

Gen 1 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness.

Col 1 By Him all things were created.

 

[Lambano]

It depends on whether you accept the legitimacy of the Comma Johanneum.

Wanna open up that sack of snakes?

Oh, well. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all work for God, Inc. (LLC).

 

[FaithWillDo]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

I never got a straigth answer to this question. The apostles were discipled and taught by Jesus himself. Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father? You will get run arounds like Jesus is god therefore he is the Father. That is not a text in their letters where they write. Jesus is the Father.

Where in the letters did they write literally that the Holy Spirit is the Father?

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "Jesus is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "holy ghost is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

Not in ether.,

Dear Learner,
There isn't any NT scripture that says that Jesus is God the Father.

However, Jesus is mankind's Father because He created us and will give us our new birth. In this sense, Jesus is mankind's Father and that is why this scripture says He is:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And just as mankind has a Father, so does Jesus:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

2Cor 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

So to say that Jesus is God the Father is incorrect. They are two separate persons just as I am a separate person from another converted believer. But because Jesus has the Father's Spirit, scripture says that they are "one". The number one is a spirit word which means "unity". It does not mean that Jesus and the Father are the same person. And just as Jesus and the Father are one, converted believers are also "one" with each other.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

And in this same sense, a converted believer is also "one" with Jesus and God the Father.

As for the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit.

Joe

 

[The Learner]

John 10:30-38​

​

New International Version​

​

​

30 I and the Father are one.”

That is not the letters and one there refers from the greek grammar that they have the same divine nature of God.

In John 10:30, the Greek word for "one" is ἕν (hen), a neuter form, which scholarly debate suggests points to a unity of essence or nature shared by Jesus and the Father, rather than just a unity of purpose or personality. The reaction of the Jewish audience, who accused Jesus of blasphemy and attempted to stone him for claiming to be God, further supports the interpretation that Jesus was asserting his divinity, which is consistent with a shared divine nature rather than just an agreement.
Grammatical Nuance
The phrase "I and the Father are one": is written in Greek as Ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ Πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν (Egō kai ho Patēr hen esmen).
The key word is ἕν (hen), which is the neuter adjective for "one".
Had Jesus meant a unity of personality, he would have used the masculine form, εἷς (heis), as seen in other passages referring to single persons.
Interpretation of the Neuter "one"
Unity of essence: Many interpreters argue the neuter ἕν (hen) indicates a fundamental, ontological unity of divine substance or nature between the Father and the Son.
Contrast to unity of person: This is distinct from a unity of individual persons.
Agreement with God's nature: The use of "one" (ἕν) is similar to the statement in John 17:22 where believers are also made "one" (ἕν) with Christ, suggesting a unity of divine essence that could be shared.
Theological Implications
Divine nature: The use of the neuter "one" implies that Jesus and the Father share the same divine essence and nature.
Blasphemy of the Jewish audience: The Jews' reaction of picking up stones to kill Jesus for blasphemy (John 10:31-33) suggests they understood Jesus' claim of being "one" with the Father as an assertion of his deity, not just a functional unity. They explicitly stated, "You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (John 10:33).
Consistency with Johannine theology: This understanding aligns with other passages in John's Gospel, such as John 1:1 ("the Word was God") and John 20:28, where Thomas exclaims, "My Lord and my God".

 

[The Learner]

a logic error I often see online is:

Grapes are fruit

Cherries are fruit

Therefore, Grapes are Cherries.

When dealing with OP, they write

Jesus is God

The Father is God

Therefore Jesus is the Father.

very poor logic error on their part.

 

[The Learner]

And yet at the same time, Jesus states their existence with each other in the plural. John 14:23, 28.
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make  OUR abode with him.
[24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
[25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

I understand it this way: God the Father dwelling with-IN Jesus, being together as One, they together are the Gift of the Holy Spirit to usward.

Iow's without God the Father dwelling within Jesus first (Mat. 3:16) ,
God the Father could never permanently dwell within us at all!

Also, the Holy Spirit and Jesus indwells us, that does not make us either of them.

 

[The Learner]

The doctrine is clearly Bible!

Gen 1 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness.

Col 1 By Him all things were created.

Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father?

 

[The Learner]

Dear Learner,
There isn't any NT scripture that says that Jesus is God the Father.

However, Jesus is mankind's Father because He created us and will give us our new birth. In this sense, Jesus is mankind's Father and that is why this scripture says He is:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And just as mankind has a Father, so does Jesus:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

2Cor 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

So to say that Jesus is God the Father is incorrect. They are two separate persons just as I am a separate person from another converted believer. But because Jesus has the Father's Spirit, scripture says that they are "one". The number one is a spirit word which means "unity". It does not mean that Jesus and the Father are the same person. And just as Jesus and the Father are one, converted believers are also "one" with each other.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

And in this same sense, a converted believer is also "one" with Jesus and God the Father.

As for the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit.

Joe

Winner Joe

 

[Cross8527]

That is not the letters and one there refers from the greek grammar that they have the same divine nature of God.

In John 10:30, the Greek word for "one" is ἕν (hen), a neuter form, which scholarly debate suggests points to a unity of essence or nature shared by Jesus and the Father, rather than just a unity of purpose or personality. The reaction of the Jewish audience, who accused Jesus of blasphemy and attempted to stone him for claiming to be God, further supports the interpretation that Jesus was asserting his divinity, which is consistent with a shared divine nature rather than just an agreement.
Grammatical Nuance
The phrase "I and the Father are one": is written in Greek as Ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ Πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν (Egō kai ho Patēr hen esmen).
The key word is ἕν (hen), which is the neuter adjective for "one".
Had Jesus meant a unity of personality, he would have used the masculine form, εἷς (heis), as seen in other passages referring to single persons.
Interpretation of the Neuter "one"
Unity of essence: Many interpreters argue the neuter ἕν (hen) indicates a fundamental, ontological unity of divine substance or nature between the Father and the Son.
Contrast to unity of person: This is distinct from a unity of individual persons.
Agreement with God's nature: The use of "one" (ἕν) is similar to the statement in John 17:22 where believers are also made "one" (ἕν) with Christ, suggesting a unity of divine essence that could be shared.
Theological Implications
Divine nature: The use of the neuter "one" implies that Jesus and the Father share the same divine essence and nature.
Blasphemy of the Jewish audience: The Jews' reaction of picking up stones to kill Jesus for blasphemy (John 10:31-33) suggests they understood Jesus' claim of being "one" with the Father as an assertion of his deity, not just a functional unity. They explicitly stated, "You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (John 10:33).
Consistency with Johannine theology: This understanding aligns with other passages in John's Gospel, such as John 1:1 ("the Word was God") and John 20:28, where Thomas exclaims, "My Lord and my God".

No it is not the letter but why does it need to be the letters in particular?
And as for your take on the greek wording well firstly it says what it says we can discect it all day but the fact remains that Jesus said what he said. now even if in fact the personalities are different which they are he still claims to be God not the father but God nonetheless

But I do see your point about the personalities issue I have met both Jesus and the father and I can testify they do have different personalities

 

[PS95]

It depends on whether you accept the legitimacy of the Comma Johanneum.

Wanna open up that sack of snakes?

Oh, well. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all work for God, Inc. (LLC).

Romans 8
9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Ro 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption to sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
2 Cor 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Tim 1:14
Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Col 1:27
to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

1 Cor 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him

Ro 5:5
And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
John 14:16-17
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— / the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
Eph 1:13
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Phil 1:19
For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, 20according to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death.

1 John 4:12-16
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

I have no problem with the comma.

 

[The Learner]

No it is not the letter but why does it need to be the letters in particular?
And as for your take on the greek wording well firstly it says what it says we can discect it all day but the fact remains that Jesus said what he said. now even if in fact the personalities are different which they are he still claims to be God not the father but God nonetheless

But I do see your point about the personalities issue I have met both Jesus and the father and I can testify they do have different personalities

It is easy for them to misrepresent what is in the gopsels and acts. The authors of the Letters were taught by Jesus. Apostle Paul's authority comes directly from Jesus Christ, who personally called and commissioned him as an apostle on the road to Damascus, a pivotal event that established his divine authority to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. Romans 1:1 and Galatians 1:1.

1 Corinthians 2:16
As the Scriptures say, “Who can know what is on the Lord’s mind? Who is able to give him advice?” But we have been given Christ’s way of thinking.

In Galatians 1:11-12 Paul states:

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ"

with Pau's education and commission. We would expect major doctrine be in their letters.

 

[The Learner]

No it is not the letter but why does it need to be the letters in particular?
And as for your take on the greek wording well firstly it says what it says we can discect it all day but the fact remains that Jesus said what he said. now even if in fact the personalities are different which they are he still claims to be God not the father but God nonetheless

But I do see your point about the personalities issue I have met both Jesus and the father and I can testify they do have different personalities

John 21:25
There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I think the whole world would not be big enough for all the books that would be written.

No reason to believe they all heard everything Jesus said.

 

[The Learner]

We have "logos was God" which word for word truth. Since the gospels do not litterally say "Jesus is the Father". So, we would expected.

 

[Jack]

Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father?

John 14:9 He who has seen Me has seen the Father;

 

[Taken]

We have "logos was God" which word for word truth. Since the gospels do not litterally say "Jesus is the Father". So, we would expected.

It is a matter of something every generation of mankind has and will experience…
Knowledge, Prophecy, Truth, Trust, Patience, Fruition…
OR:
Knowledge, Prophecy, Doubt, Reluctance, Stubbornness, Shock…

Scripture routinely reveals centuries of Knowledge, Prophecies, Truths, Trust, Patience, Fruition…

You are asking / demanding proof of a Prophecy … Will, Shall, Has come into Fruition…which Has Not “YET.”

The knowledge, The prophecy, The Truth Has been revealed, According to Gods Order, Way, Words.

You are asking for “proof” of “your own words” to be proved to exist in Scripture.
They don’t.

You have been given Scriptural knowledge, Christ the Lord Jesus’ King, Father status IS forthcoming, Shall come into Fruition.

You, as all others have FREEWILL to Believe it or Not.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Learner]

It is a matter of something every generation of mankind has and will experience…
Knowledge, Prophecy, Truth, Trust, Patience, Fruition…
OR:
Knowledge, Prophecy, Doubt, Reluctance, Stubbornness, Shock…

Scripture routinely reveals centuries of Knowledge, Prophecies, Truths, Trust, Patience, Fruition…

You are asking / demanding proof of a Prophecy … Will, Shall, Has come into Fruition…which Has Not “YET.”

The knowledge, The prophecy, The Truth Has been revealed, According to Gods Order, Way, Words.

You are asking for “proof” of “your own words” to be proved to exist in Scripture.
They don’t.

You have been given Scriptural knowledge, Christ the Lord Jesus’ King, Father status IS forthcoming, Shall come into Fruition.

You, as all others have FREEWILL to Believe it or Not.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

not demanding proof of a Prophecy, only what the letters say