Is it okay to blame God for stuff that is his fault?

[GodsGrace]

Those issues I addressed are all linked to man's perception of the character of God. That is the issue at stake here. And it began in heaven with a war of words and slander and politicking over whether God was worthy of ruling the government of heaven. Lucifer thought he could do better and began an insurrection.That controversy continues today. Before Jesus returns, everyone must decide whom they will serve. Or in other words, who do they trust to lead them. Even the vast vast majority of Christians today don't believe what God says in His word, and by that unbelief have fabricated doctrines to compensate, and those doctrines malign God's character.
Good character is on the line in the last days. Is He a God of love? Really?? Or is He a God of vengeance and capricious arbitrary law making? When you observe Christians in this forum, which version of God are Christians representing? That is the God they believe in. Your response depends on the character of God you believe to be truth. Do you judge God amidst the chaos of this world, or do you trust Him implicitly in the expectation that all things will work together for good. And why?

Oh......
I AM willing to discuss the character of God,,,,

GOD IS LOVE
GOD IS MERCY
GOD IS JUSTICE

Would you agree?

God is not CAUSING the chaos of this world.
I'd say that because we DO NOT obey God we have all this chaos.

I'd also say that it's caused by our free will and by the presence of the sin nature.

As far as distorting the nature of God....
The reformed faith/Calvinism is one of the only two topics I discuss....
since they do distort the nature of God.

So, yes, the proper representation of the character of God is very important to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

There's a further aspect to this. The church was designed to reflect Christ. Agreed? Not only in the NT, but throughout all history. God had His champions, yet at some time or other, they fell short of God's ideal, but never has God veered away from His ultimate purpose. To have a people on earth that would demonstrate implicit faith in Him as their sovereign Lord, and in their lives allow God to show forth the glory of the principles that undergird His kingdom.
Sadly, God's people more often than not have not represented Him well. Violence, compulsion and force, and threats of vengeance, even death, has characterised the church for millennia. Through union with the state powers, the church has inducted much suffering to those who sought a different path than the official line. It mattered not what line of Christianity was in charge, the result was very similar. Even the reformation came with its own problems, the truths discovered and taught such as Sola Scriptura, Sola Christus, Sola Fide, and Sola Gracia, were bound up in church/state conformity, being a carry over from mediaeval tyranny. If you wanted to be different, and you thought God was One Who was altogether different from the God the official church served, you had only 2 choices. Suffer and die for your faith, or move. When the new world was discovered, people moved. The result was the separation of church and state, each staying in their own lane and their own restricted parameters.
All was fine until the rise of secularism and the occult in the new world. And today, in the midst of a faith crisis, the church is confused on how to handle itself. Sadly, they are reverting back to their dark age roots, and seeking to impose religion through government legislation. This course now being followed in America is merely a reflection on how the church views it's God. They believe He is a God, like in the middle ages, who advocates for torture and force in order to impose truth and compel people to live in righteousness. In the last book of the Bible, it is revealed that the woman (the church) will ride the beast (state), enforcing doctrine (wine of Babylon) and killing those who refuse. Jesus said, the time will come when those who kill you will think they are serving God. Clearly, they have a completely wrong perception of who God is, and what He is like. That's the great controversy we are living in today. It all hinges around Who you believe God to be. A God Who requires obedience at the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun through government legislation, or a God of love and freedom?
The world today is being propelled toward honouring the Antichrist. The nations are in the process of being gathered together into a global union on the basis of commonly held fears. Climate change, environmental disaster, nuclear war, God shortages, economic collapse, moral decay etc etc. in order to create a new world order. This cannot, and is not, being accomplished with the active participation and leadership of the church. And the church, specifically the Vatican, had been working towards such global hegemony for centuries. Prophecy reveals this reality, and we are witnessing the inevitable culmination of this union of church and state, first in apostate Protestant America who will then join with the papacy .... “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. ”
Revelation 13:7 KJV
Unfeigned Bible what,/Revelation.13.7

That's the issue of theodicy. Who, and what do you think of God? What is He like? What kind of character does He possess? And is that the character we are told to represent to the world? I have an altogether different idea of the character of God than many on this forum. How about you?

Wow.
A lot here...
will have to wait till after dinner...
later.

 

[Wick Stick]

I was born a sinner in need of redemption.
Who should I blame for that?

Life is hard. Who should I blame for that?

Terrible things are happening every day.
Who should I blame for that?

Is it needful to blame someone? IMO, blame is only useful when it leads to a correction.

Like, if my son takes the last ice cream bar from the freezer and leaves the empty box sitting there... blame is appropriate because we can correct that behavior in the future.

If Bob in accounting is embezzling... blame is appropriate, because we can fire Bob and perhaps get some restitution.

If life is hard... how is blaming someone constructive? The only possible correction is my own behavior. So, blame myself, I guess?

I'm dying. Who should I blame for that?

[

Death is a blessing. We ought to be giving thanks rather than blame, on this one.

 

[St. SteVen]

Is it needful to blame someone? IMO, blame is only useful when it leads to a correction.

That's an interesting point.

My post was mostly rhetorical.
We find ourselves in a situation we did not create.
This can cause some frustration. (obviously)

And when God speaks to me, I don't feel bad
about reminding Him of the facts.

[

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

There's a further aspect to this. The church was designed to reflect Christ. Agreed?

Agreed.
Jesus came here for more than one reason...
and one was also to be a good example for us.
And, yes, the church (small c) is supposed to reflect what JESUS TAUGHT.

Not only in the NT, but throughout all history. God had His champions, yet at some time or other, they fell short of God's ideal, but never has God veered away from His ultimate purpose. To have a people on earth that would demonstrate implicit faith in Him as their sovereign Lord, and in their lives allow God to show forth the glory of the principles that undergird His kingdom.

Couldn't agree more.
I've said this many times.....
Many are fixated on Jesus for salvation....
and indeed His sacrifice was to atone for the sins of mankind.

But Jesus also sought to establish the Kingdom of God on earth....
He meant to teach us how to be members of that Kingdom...
He wants us to have Him be our Lord and not just our Savior.
Our Lord and Savior...Jesus Christ.
Some like to have Him as Savior...
but they don't care for the Lord part.

Some on these Forums refer to this as Lordship Salvation, as a denegrading title.
Well, actually, Jesus taught Lordship salvation.
If He is not our Lord...
we will not be saved.

Sadly, God's people more often than not have not represented Him well. Violence, compulsion and force, and threats of vengeance, even death, has characterised the church for millennia. Through union with the state powers, the church has inducted much suffering to those who sought a different path than the official line. It mattered not what line of Christianity was in charge, the result was very similar. Even the reformation came with its own problems, the truths discovered and taught such as Sola Scriptura, Sola Christus, Sola Fide, and Sola Gracia, were bound up in church/state conformity, being a carry over from mediaeval tyranny. If you wanted to be different, and you thought God was One Who was altogether different from the God the official church served, you had only 2 choices. Suffer and die for your faith, or move. When the new world was discovered, people moved. The result was the separation of church and state, each staying in their own lane and their own restricted parameters.

Correct representation of church history.
The problem is that MEN rule.....
although the church of Christ (not the denomination) is true and will always be pure...
the men that run it are not.

All was fine until the rise of secularism and the occult in the new world. And today, in the midst of a faith crisis, the church is confused on how to handle itself.

Yes sir.
Post modernism.

Sadly, they are reverting back to their dark age roots, and seeking to impose religion through government legislation. This course now being followed in America is merely a reflection on how the church views it's God. They believe He is a God, like in the middle ages, who advocates for torture and force in order to impose truth and compel people to live in righteousness. In the last book of the Bible, it is revealed that the woman (the church) will ride the beast (state), enforcing doctrine (wine of Babylon) and killing those who refuse. Jesus said, the time will come when those who kill you will think they are serving God. Clearly, they have a completely wrong perception of who God is, and what He is like. That's the great controversy we are living in today. It all hinges around Who you believe God to be. A God Who requires obedience at the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun through government legislation, or a God of love and freedom?

You're going to have to be more clear because I've been away from the states for a very long time and I'm not sure I'm following.
Who is seeking to impose Christianity on everyone?
Who is enforcing doctrine?
What I see from here is the ruination of America due to a liberal belief system that no longer uses any logic.

I don't believe in a theocracy.
I also don't believe in a God of love and TOTAL FREEDOM.

Please clarify.
Are you saying God can condone, let's say, homosexuality?
There are pastors/teachers that are promoting this belief.

The world today is being propelled toward honouring the Antichrist. The nations are in the process of being gathered together into a global union on the basis of commonly held fears. Climate change, environmental disaster, nuclear war, God shortages, economic collapse, moral decay etc etc. in order to create a new world order.

Agreed.

This cannot, and is not, being accomplished with the active participation and leadership of the church. And the church, specifically the Vatican, had been working towards such global hegemony for centuries. Prophecy reveals this reality, and we are witnessing the inevitable culmination of this union of church and state, first in apostate Protestant America who will then join with the papacy .... “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. ”
Revelation 13:7 KJV
Unfeigned Bible what,/Revelation.13.7

I'm not much for understanding eschatology....
I'd have to say, as I see it, that the CC is probably the denomination that is most holding back the OWO.
I also don't see the CC running any government...
it's unable to have ANY effect on the government of the country it's located in...so I doubt it could have much effect on
any other country.

That's the issue of theodicy. Who, and what do you think of God? What is He like? What kind of character does He possess? And is that the character we are told to represent to the world? I have an altogether different idea of the character of God than many on this forum. How about you?

What is your idea of the character of God?

And theodicy is the problem faced by Christianity....
The problem of evil....which is:
If God is all good AND all powerful...
why is there evil??
(not sure this is how you mean it).

 

[Brakelite]

I went for the low-hanging fruit.

Do you honestly believe Jesus is talking about your so-called evil angel in Luke 10:18? Seriously?

That’s just lazy reading of the text, nothing more.

What was the adversary the Lord rejoiced to see fall “like” lightning from heaven?

You should know better, Brakelite....you know the context right?

If you can't discern Luke 10:18 how on earth can you understand the Revelation?

Absolutely I stand by my reading of that text. Let us see it in context shall we...
“17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. ”
Luke 10:17-20 KJV

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“10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ”
Ephesians 6:10-12 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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Quote: Do you honestly believe Jesus is talking about your so-called evil angel in Luke 10:18? Seriously?

Absolutely I believe that. Revelation 12 confirms it.

“3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. ”
Revelation 12:3-4, 7-13 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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How plain could it be?

 

[Brakelite]

I was born a sinner in need of redemption.
Who should I blame for that?

Life is hard. Who should I blame for that?

Terrible things are happening every day.
Who should I blame for that?

I'm dying. Who should I blame for that?

[

And Jesus said, an enemy has done this.

 

[Brakelite]

Wow.
A lot here...
will have to wait till after dinner...
later.

I read through my post again and discovered a couple of errors giving an impression the opposite to what I intended. Blame Google, or fat fingers, not God.

 

[Brakelite]

And theodicy is the problem faced by Christianity....
The problem of evil....which is:
If God is all good AND all powerful...
why is there evil??
(not sure this is how you mean it).

That's exactly how I meant it. Bad things happening to good people is merely a symptom of that. Bad people surviving and influencing society far longer that we believe they ought to be. The expectation that God should act the moment we see evil and inflict vengeance on our behalf or someone else's behalf... Immediately.

Who is seeking to impose Christianity on everyone?
Who is enforcing doctrine?
What I see from here is the ruination of America due to a liberal belief system that no longer uses any logic.

I don't believe in a theocracy.
I also don't believe in a God of love and TOTAL FREEDOM.

Please clarify.
Are you saying God can condone, let's say, homosexuality?
There are pastors/teachers that are promoting this belief.

Have you not been hearing Trump and his close associates in government? The promises to give the church power. The promises to eradicate all evil wokism from society and "being the nation back to God". How else could any government accomplish this without legislation, for that is how a government speaks, and the promise or threat of penalties if contravened? How far can they go in establishing a nation as a Christian nation under God without such legislation advocating religion with compulsion and penalties? What particular brand of Christianity are they imposing? Obviously, the brand they view was best suits the majority right? And the minority Christian groups who disagree with their particular brand...

But Jesus also sought to establish the Kingdom of God on earth....
He meant to teach us how to be members of that Kingdom...
He wants us to have Him be our Lord and not just our Savior.
Our Lord and Savior...Jesus Christ.
Some like to have Him as Savior...
but they don't care for the Lord part.

Jesus sought to establish His kingdom in the hearts and minds of men, and they just happened to be on earth. The kingdom was never intended to be established as a physical theocratic entity. Sadly, Christian nationalism is alive and very very well in America and has the ear of government. Evangelicanism in America is Christian nationalism light. But still the same concept and ideas. And errors.

 

[Brakelite]

@GodsGrace
I think you will find this informative. Five Good reasons why there is suffering. First reason part 1, the other 4 part 2.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Absolutely I stand by my reading of that text. Let us see it in context shall we...
“17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. ”
Luke 10:17-20 KJV

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The passage does not say that Satan was in heaven or that he fell from heaven. Instead, Jesus uses a simile, “like lightning from heaven.” The comparison is not about Satan literally falling from heaven, but rather about the speed and suddenness of his downfall—just as lightning swiftly flashes down from the sky.

Are you familiar with Luke’s use of similes? If not, I recommend reviewing it; your interpretation of that section appears to misunderstand the author’s intent.

Here this will further help you Brakelite.

The Context is in Verse 9 Demons submit = healing sicknesses.

Luke 10:18 The disciples returned rejoicing that even demons (illness) were subject to them through Christ’s name (v.17). But Jesus warns them: Do not let pride take root. Remember Babylon’s king in Isaiah 14, lifted up in arrogance, yet swiftly brought down in judgment. Pride and self-exaltation always meet the same end.

Notice carefully: Jesus does not say that a supernatural devil was literally cast out of heaven. He uses a simile, “as lightning.” The point of comparison is swiftness and suddenness: lightning dazzles for a moment in the sky, but instantly crashes down. So too does human pride, no matter how exalted.

Scripture confirms this pattern: John 12:31; 16:11; Hebrews 2:14; 1 John 3:8; Revelation 12:7–9; 20:2 all show “Satan” as a symbol of sin, opposition, and human power under judgment. Consider also Judges 1:3–7: Adoni-bezek—literally “lord of lightning”—a ruler brought low in humiliation.

And what of Capernaum? In Luke 10:15, Jesus said: “And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.” The same language applies. The so-called greatness of godless cities, whether Capernaum or Babylon, falls like lightning—sudden, dramatic, and irreversible.

Therefore: When Jesus says, “I saw Satan fall like lightning,” he is not describing a supernatural devil hurled from heaven, but rather illustrating how human pride, self-exaltation, and resistance to God are swiftly overthrown. His warning to the disciples is sharp: Do not repeat the same mistake. Rejoice not in power, but that your names are written in heaven (v.20).

Brakelite - you have no context, no anchor in Scripture, no identity of your being.

“10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ”
Ephesians 6:10-12 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

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Those who know not the truth often jump context and fail to understand the meaning. These passages are unrelated.

Quote: Do you honestly believe Jesus is talking about your so-called evil angel in Luke 10:18? Seriously?

Absolutely I believe that. Revelation 12 confirms it.

“3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. ”
Revelation 12:3-4, 7-13 KJV

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How plain could it be?

(head slap) always run to Rev 12 - you know absolutely nothing about Rev 12 if you think your creature resides there. Again, no context, no identity and no link between the verses you randomly plucked from thin air.

This is terrible exegesis.

 

[Brakelite]

@Hiddenthings
I'm going to tackle this one question at a time.
You said,

“Satan” as a symbol of sin, opposition, and human power under judgment.

First question.
Where did the sin, opposition, and human power under judgement come from in the context of Genesis 1 and 2.

 

[Brakelite]

Next question. You said,

The passage does not say that Satan was in heaven or that he fell from heaven. Instead, Jesus uses a simile, “like lightning from heaven.”

Actually, it does say exactly that.

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ”
Luke 10:18 KJV

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You claim Satan is non personal, but rather an idea or ideology or concept that opposes God's people. Can you explain that in context with Job1, and the discussion between the Lord and Satan? Was the Lord challenging an idea and giving this idea permission to attack Job? Whose idea was it in the beginning? God's? Was He giving Himself permission to attack Job? Or someone else?

 

[Hiddenthings]

First question.
Where did the sin, opposition, and human power under judgement come from in the context of Genesis 1 and 2.

Note: The carnal mind was introduced through the cunning of an animal which God had made.

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the Lord God had made.” — Genesis 3:1

Just so you know, Brakelite, this very verse and the obvious questions it evokes caused this forum months of turmoil, and only one to two members were able to answer it honestly.

I don’t expect you to do so either.

Take a look here and you’ll see what I mean: Unlocking Genesis 3:1

It got so heated that Aunty Jane practically blew a valve, avoiding Genesis 3:1 like it was COVID!

 

[Brakelite]

You're going to have to be more clear because I've been away from the states for a very long time and I'm not sure I'm following.
Who is seeking to impose Christianity on everyone?

They aren't enforcing doctrine... Yet. But the impetus at the moment is heading quickly in that direction. The Charlie Kirk assassination will only flame the fire. And the Republican party was during on free speech and constitutional rights. Now they've cancelled Jimmy Kimmel because they were threatened by a government department on advice from a Trump associate. Although one could quite easily believe that Jimmy got an attractive "compensation" and will happily retire. Politics is all a game. You can't trust any of them to tell you the truth. And now the US is getting hot under the collar to introduce hate speech. In other words, one will no longer be permitted to say anything the government hates. The entire political and religious paradigm growing now in the US is becoming increasingly in harmony with a society that could easily and quickly turn against religious minorities that teach anything against what they accept as the "common good".

 

[Hiddenthings]

Next question. You said,

Actually, it does say exactly that.

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ”
Luke 10:18 KJV

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You claim Satan is non personal, but rather an idea or ideology or concept that opposes God's people. Can you explain that in context with Job1, and the discussion between the Lord and Satan? Was the Lord challenging an idea and giving this idea permission to attack Job? Whose idea was it in the beginning? God's? Was He giving Himself permission to attack Job? Or someone else?

I suggest you read up on similes and how Luke employed them, it's clear you're having difficulty with this literary device

Don't resist Brakelite, it's not a good look.

Here is a list of all the similes Luke used - good luck!

Similes in Luke’s Gospel

1. Luke 3:22 – “And the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove.”
2. Luke 6:48 – “He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock.”
3. Luke 6:49 – “But the one who hears and does not act is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation.”
4. Luke 7:31 – “To what then shall I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like?”
5. Luke 7:32 – “They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another…”
6. Luke 10:3 – “Go your way; behold, I am sending you out like lambs in the midst of wolves.”
7. Luke 11:44 – “Woe to you! For you are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without knowing it.”
8. Luke 12:27 – “Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these.”
9. Luke 12:36 – “Be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the wedding feast.”
10. Luke 12:37 – “Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at table, and he will come and serve them.” (implied simile—servants being like watchful ones).
11. Luke 12:38 – “If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them awake, blessed are those servants.” (again, servants pictured like watchful men).
12. Luke 12:40 – “You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” (followers to be like ready servants).
13. Luke 13:18-19 – “What is the kingdom of God like? It is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his garden.”
14. Luke 13:20-21 – “To what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour.”
15. Luke 17:6 – “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed…”
16. Luke 17:24 – “For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.”
17. Luke 17:26 – “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be…”
18. Luke 17:28 – “Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot…”
19. Luke 19:17 – “You shall have authority over ten cities.” (parable imagery functions like simile, though implicit).
20. Luke 21:29-30 – “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near.” (disciples to discern signs like seeing leaves).
21. Luke 22:26 – “…the greatest among you become like the youngest, and the leader as the one who serves.”
22. Luke 22:31 – “Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat.”
23. Luke 22:44 – “…his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”
24. Luke 24:37 – “But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit.” (implied: Jesus appeared like a spirit to them).

O, and one more

Luke 10:18 – “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Now that you understand how the Simile is used now apply its understanding what fell LIKE lightening.

Not hard!

 

[Hiddenthings]

The next issue we have for those unable to answer the questions around Genesis 3:1 is Paul's understanding of it in 2 Corinthians 11.

Where Paul refers to the events of Gen 3:1–13.

But I am afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by his treachery (cunning), your minds may be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ 2 Co 11:3.

No mention of a fallen angel, or a ventriloquist event.

Confirms the creature God had made used its cunning as it was created!

This is not the type of evidence those holding to a fallen angel need.

Why didn't Paul introduce this creature here? it's the perfect context to do so!

In fact by extension of his analogy, this refers to the deceitfulness of Paul’s opponents in Corinth. These people cast doubt on God’s promises and Paul’s apostolic authority but not mention of an angelic mastermind at work.

This is where the discussion ultimately led.

Both Paul and Christ refer to the cunning of the serpent that God had made - no mention of any supernatural fallen angel!

Not one member in the forum over a period of 3 months and so many threads could show the identity of their evil creature.

@Brakelite I’m not sure the forum would want you to reopen this Pandora’s box! There were so many threads, and so many questions left unanswered. I could dig them up for days...weeks!

But if you want to I am always willing!

 

[Brakelite]

Note: The carnal mind was introduced through the cunning of an animal which God had made.

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the Lord God had made.” — Genesis 3:1

Just so you know, Brakelite, this very verse and the obvious questions it evokes caused this forum months of turmoil, and only one to two members were able to answer it honestly.

I don’t expect you to do so either.

Take a look here and you’ll see what I mean: Unlocking Genesis 3:1

It got so heated that Aunty Jane practically blew a valve, avoiding Genesis 3:1 like it was COVID!

Two separate and distinct beings. You deny one, and you cannot discern outside your own thought paradigm. Accept the word of God as truth, and the situation explains itself. You don't go to the extreme of claiming Balaam's donkey was anything other than a donkey, because no other creature off mentioned, so despite its ability at that time to speak, yet you understand that some supernatural act is in evidence. Why baulk when it comes to the serpent? You are told elsewhere that the devil is described metaphorically as a serpent, knowing full well that the Bible describes him originally as a spirit... An angel. Therefore the logical conclusion is that knowing this serpent in the garden was wise and obviously very beautiful, and this intriguing to look upon, He used this fascinating creature as a medium. Just like in the occult to this day, evil spirits impersonating dead people through mediums. It isn't that complicated.

 

[Brakelite]

I suggest you read up on similes and how Luke employed them, it's clear you're having difficulty with this literary device

Don't resist Brakelite, it's not a good look.

Here is a list of all the similes Luke used - good luck!

Similes in Luke’s Gospel

1. Luke 3:22 – “And the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove.”
2. Luke 6:48 – “He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock.”
3. Luke 6:49 – “But the one who hears and does not act is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation.”
4. Luke 7:31 – “To what then shall I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like?”
5. Luke 7:32 – “They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another…”
6. Luke 10:3 – “Go your way; behold, I am sending you out like lambs in the midst of wolves.”
7. Luke 11:44 – “Woe to you! For you are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without knowing it.”
8. Luke 12:27 – “Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these.”
9. Luke 12:36 – “Be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the wedding feast.”
10. Luke 12:37 – “Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at table, and he will come and serve them.” (implied simile—servants being like watchful ones).
11. Luke 12:38 – “If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them awake, blessed are those servants.” (again, servants pictured like watchful men).
12. Luke 12:40 – “You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” (followers to be like ready servants).
13. Luke 13:18-19 – “What is the kingdom of God like? It is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his garden.”
14. Luke 13:20-21 – “To what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour.”
15. Luke 17:6 – “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed…”
16. Luke 17:24 – “For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.”
17. Luke 17:26 – “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be…”
18. Luke 17:28 – “Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot…”
19. Luke 19:17 – “You shall have authority over ten cities.” (parable imagery functions like simile, though implicit).
20. Luke 21:29-30 – “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near.” (disciples to discern signs like seeing leaves).
21. Luke 22:26 – “…the greatest among you become like the youngest, and the leader as the one who serves.”
22. Luke 22:31 – “Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat.”
23. Luke 22:44 – “…his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”
24. Luke 24:37 – “But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit.” (implied: Jesus appeared like a spirit to them).

O, and one more

Luke 10:18 – “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Now that you understand how the Simile is used now apply its understanding what fell LIKE lightening.

Not hard!

Your language lesson on similes is impressive. Over the top however and utterly unnecessary. I know what a simile is. But thanks anyway. Thing is this. The text in question, Luke 10:18, likening Satan's fall to lightening, is exactly that. The simile applies to his speed of descent, not to Satan himself. You are deliberately confusing the issue in order to defend the indefensible. I say deliberately, because you are clearly to intelligent to be mistaken.

 

[Brakelite]

This is where the discussion ultimately led.

Both Paul and Christ refer to the cunning of the serpent that God had made - no mention of any supernatural fallen angel!

Not one member in the forum over a period of 3 months and so many threads could show the identity of their evil creature.

@Brakelite I’m not sure the forum would want you to reopen this Pandora’s box! There were so many threads, and so many questions left unanswered. I could dig them up for days...weeks!

But if you want to I am always willing!

I also could ask numerous questions, as could most people, regarding a plethora of topics and accuse you of being dumb or ignorant because you don't have all the answers. But the Bible doesn't tell us everything. Many questions remain unanswered that God in his wisdom has left deliberately obscure. What we must not do is what you are doing with the scriptures regarding Satan, by improvising and inserting your own imaginative answers in order to fill gaps that don't suit your theology. You have some curious claims regarding the nature of Satan and demons and devils etc, but none of come from scripture. The old adage, scripture interprets scripture, is a good one. We follow that. You haven't. There's nothing in scripture to corroborate your ideas regarding Satan as an idea or ethereal non personal being port human power. One scripture I gave you specifically refutes that possibility.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ”
Ephesians 6:12 KJV

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You would have us believe that we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with flesh and blood.