The Great Tribulation Began in 70AD and Continues to This Very Day

[Truth7t7]

Satan will be bound for the first 1,000 years of it

- but just as he was allowed to deceive Adam and Eve in paradise the first time, so he will be given one final opportunity after being released at the close of that first 1,000 years to deceive the nations again - just as Revelation 20 tells us - before you go and change it, corrupting what scripture says.

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by his fire (The End)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by his fire (The End)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

It's alright. As long as you're there in His Kingdom after He's made all things new I don't care what you believe. Hopefully you believe that something follows "THE END" you speak of.

 

[Jay Ross]

The premise in the title is flawed.

The Great Tribulation is still in our distant future, about 1,000 plus years from now.

 

[Truth7t7]

.

It's alright. As long as you're there in His Kingdom after He's made all things new I don't care what you believe. Hopefully you believe that something follows "THE END" you speak of.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hopefully you believe that something follows "THE END" you speak of.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-6KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

[quietthinker]

The Great Tribulation Began in 70AD and Continues to This Very Day​

Human history past and present is a record of Great Tribulation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So problematic.
No white horse rider.
No mark.
No beheading for refusing it.
No flying scorpions.
No hailstones of fire.
No 144k sealed.

DOA.
Huge grand canyon leap.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You present the standard false teachings found in John N. Darby 1830's and C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference Bible that maintained Darby's teachings in the Margin's, better known as "Dispensationalism" with the world headquarters being found at "Dallas Theological Cemetary" that finds its foundational roots in Adulterer C.I. Scofield's Dallas Church, with (Lewis S. Chafer) being a disciple of Scofield and a church member

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy "Future" Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 "Future" literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time, where (The Beast) and (Two Witnesses) will be present on this earth together, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharoh of Egypt in literal plagues brought by the (Two Witnesses) upon this world as often as they will Revelation 11:6, the sealed church is protected from these plagues

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Nope, Jacobs trouble is 7 years and it is Israel's trouble, not the church.
The tribulation Kicks off with the white horse rider. He has a Crown and a bow and he kills Christians. That is why he is the Antichrist. He masquerades as a false Christ, right from the start of the tribulation. which is 7 years.

 

[Truth7t7]

Nope, Jacobs trouble is 7 years and it is Israel's trouble, not the church.
The tribulation Kicks off with the white horse rider. He has a Crown and a bow and he kills Christians. That is why he is the Antichrist. He masquerades as a false Christ, right from the start of the tribulation. which is 7 years.

There will be a future 3.5 year tribulation starting when the antichrist is revealed in a future Jerusalem proclaiming to be God Messiah to Israel's Judaism

 

[rebuilder 454]

There will be a future 3.5 year tribulation starting when the antichrist is revealed in a future Jerusalem proclaiming to be God Messiah to Israel's Judaism

He is revealed at the white horse.
He carries a bow signifying covenant.
The 144k are persecuted badly enough they're ushered to safety.
Daniel says at the middle of the week the temple is desecrated.
3.5 yrs of the ac reign BEFORE the temple desecration.
He arrives with a bow and crown.
A covenant and world leader.
Jacob's trouble. 7 yrs.

 

[Truth7t7]

He is revealed at the white horse.
He carries a bow signifying covenant.
The 144k are persecuted badly enough they're ushered to safety.
Daniel says at the middle of the week the temple is desecrated.
3.5 yrs of the ac reign BEFORE the temple desecration.
He arrives with a bow and crown.
A covenant and world leader.
Jacob's trouble. 7 yrs.

Where do you get 7 years please explain?

 

[Wish-it]

Revelation 20:11-15, the great white throne judgment will not take place until after the thousand year reign of Christ is over and after the last rebellion of the nations.

View attachment 69139

Great diagram, but only the resurrection of the martyred saints? There's a few versions of Rev 20.4. My preference is the ones which seem to indicate it includes the resurrection of all the saints,
Berean Standard Bible
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rather than New International Version.
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years

The NIV seems to exclude us, the Berean seems to include us.
Tho the NIV 2011has a footnote 4b. Or God; I also saw those, etc
Which I consider is acceptable.
which is shown by 1 Thess 4.15-17.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[Douggg]

Great diagram, but only the resurrection of the martyred saints? There's a few versions of Rev 20.4. My preference is the ones which seem to indicate it includes the resurrection of all the saints,
Berean Standard Bible
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rather than New International Version.
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years

The NIV seems to exclude us, the Berean seems to include us.
Tho the NIV 2011has a footnote 4b. Or God; I also saw those, etc
Which I consider is acceptable.
which is shown by 1 Thess 4.15-17.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Hi Wish-it,

The rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-17 could happen at any time between right now (i.e today) and the day that the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:4.

 

[HealthyShape]

Neither "it is future" nor "it is for the whole history" is biblical.

People are just trying to invent nonsensical readings of the text and force their wishes into it, because they do not like the fact that, the text places everything into the 1st century AD.

If we read the eschatological texts of the New Testament in its proper cultural and textual context, it either happened in the 1st century or the warnings and promises failed (the inspiration was not absolute). Anything else is an invention foreign to the text and a coping mechanism.

 

[Wish-it]

Hi Wish-it,

The rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-17 could happen at any time between right now (i.e today) and the day that the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2

Ok, that explains the diagram and my misunderstanding. I'm dont believe the rapture can happen at any time. I tend to consider John 6.39,40,44,54 as the time of the Lords coming, post trib i presume would its classifiction. My reasoning is there us still too much to be fulfilled. Because I treat Dan 2,7,8, exactly as yet to be fulfilled, I presume all those scriptures need fulfillment. Your current diagram I'd struggle with. Two resurrection and a rapture? Not so sure. And the AC and AoD needs to happen and be seen by believers. Dan 11 puts that a while away off yet. Even Dan 2, would suggest to me third kingdom is just rising, leaving the fourth to follow, plus the 10 toes. We've got time up our sleeves, but we need to be fully immersed in Him in the meantime.

 

[Wish-it]

Hi Wish-it,

The rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-17 could happen at any time between right now (i.e today) and the day that the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:4.

View attachment 70270

Do you consider we believers will go thru the millennium ruling with Jesus or only martyred saints?

 

[Douggg]

Do you consider we believers will go thru the millennium ruling with Jesus or only martyred saints?

I believe that raptured/resurrected in Christ will return to earth with Christ as his bride in Revelation 19:7-14. To rule and reign with Jesus during the millennium.

The bride is wearing fine linen, clean and white in Revelation 19:7-8.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The armies coming from heaven following Jesus back to earth are clothed in fine linen, white and clean in Revelation 19:14.

Revelation 1914 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"which were in heaven"

Since the bride is coming from heaven - that eliminates a post-trib rapture/resurrection to meet the Lord in air, and turn around and come back down to earth, view.

 

[Taken]

The Great Tribulation Began in 70AD and Continues to This Very Day

Disagree.

“The” Great Tribulation, is Revealed, Being;
* TWO Specific Events.
* ONE Specific Event That Came / Ended.
* ANOTHER Specific Event That Shall Come / Shall End.

Each “Great Tribulation” EXPRESSLY…
IS…Started by the Authority of God.
IS…Sent by the Power of God.
IS…Because of Gods Anger Against “all”…
(humans and angels) having Freely chosen to REJECT God,
and
-They who promote Rejecting God,
-They who yoke with They who Reject God.

Before :
THE First Great Tribulation “OF God”…
* Believers…Were Prepared…
* Prepared Believers were Risen UP Above the Earth.
* THEN Did God “Destroy” The EARTH.
* THEN Did God, Renew the Earth.
* Then Did God RETURN the Believers TO the face of the Earth.

Before: the “NEXT” (and Last) Great Tribulation “Sent Of God” upon the Whole Earth…

What “Was” Shall be AGAIN…
* Divisions Among men “ON” Earth. (Believers / NonBelievers).
* Promoters OF Belief / Promoters OF NonBelief.
* Believers / Non Believers…Advocating to BE Yoked With / Support … ANTI-Godly Beliefs.
* Preparations.

The Second (Last) Great Tribulation HAS NOT come into Fruition or Already Occurred.

Humans upon the face of the Earth …ARE Each “individually” “PREPARING THEMSELVES”… “FOR Gods Great Future and Last Great Tribulation”.

Every Individual… IS “choosing”…
* Belief…
…submission of their body to Christ Jesus, TO Receive their Offered Guarantee With God Forever.
…submission of their Word unto God, TO HOPE, their Word Remains to the Day their body dies, and they with God forever.
…Reject of God, and Expect a Forever separation From God.
…Hoping…Supporting, Promoting, Advocating, for / toward the Un-Godly, will NOT negatively “Affect” their own Belief “IN God”… (IT WILL).

Humans ARE Presently “Choosing” their “OWN” “Standing”… WITH or Without God.
* Preparing.

These Days / Times… ARE unique, via INSTANT electronic (power) communication…and the INSTANT capability for one human To Openly Hear, Observe, Their words, Their Actions, Their Standing (with or without God)… of millions of men… personally known, strangers, famous, obscure, wealthy, poor…

In OTHER Words… men are not ONLY Dividing “THEMSELVES”… Individually, in their little groups…But ARE Shouting OUT to the Whole World… “their Standing”!

It IS “Preparation”…
Preparation FOR WHEN… God “Separates the Divided”…
What “man” will criticize God For Not Separating unto Himself… men WHO Have Willfully Chosen to Divide Themselves From God?

Division IS Openly, Loudly, Being Revealed Now…

Separation IS TO Come, For They Prepared BY the Lord…Before Gods Last “Great Tribulation”. (Rapture)
They Risen UP Above the face of the Earth, as was IN faithful Noah’s day.

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Separation IS TO Come, During Gods Last “Great Tribulation” of those not yet “Separated” upon the face of the Earth.

Rev 14:
[15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Bottom Line… if one is NOT WITH God… that one IS Against God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Rockerduck]

I Strongly Disagree

Every Prophetical Word Of God Will Be Fulfilled, Down To The Jot And Tittle

You mean Like the Jews and Pharisees did, for not believing Jesus was the Messiah. They didn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. So, what other prophecies have been fulfilled that you don't know about or refuse to recognize.

 

[Wish-it]

I believe that raptured/resurrected in Christ will return to earth with Christ as his bride in Revelation 19:7-14. To rule and reign with Jesus during the millennium.

The bride is wearing fine linen, clean and white in Revelation 19:7-8.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The armies coming from heaven following Jesus back to earth are clothed in fine linen, white and clean in Revelation 19:14.

Revelation 1914 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"which were in heaven"

Since the bride is coming from heaven - that eliminates a post-trib rapture/resurrection to meet the Lord in air, and turn around and come back down to earth, view.

I absolutely agree, my issue is probably the length of time between our departure and our return, and the length of the Day of the Lord. Not pretrib, I use Isaiah 26.20, Exodus 9.26,12.13, for not pre wrath, hence post trib, but how long between the rise and the return has me stumped.